Job points has ruined one of the foundations of this game

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Originally Posted by Olor

Most players are not getting that, most jobs are not welcome in content that gives anything close to that, ever

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That's not true. Apex parties can be done in a mage or melee only set up. As long as your job can either successfully contribute in a SC and/or MB and/or support this set up, then it can be in the party. That's literally every job.

SC: any melee job or SCH
MB: BLM RDM SCH GEO SMN
Support: tanks (PLD RUN PUP), buffers (GEO, COR, BRD, RDM), other support (RDM, GEO, SCH, SMN, PUP)

Make your own party. Test the set up. If full melee, you should probably bring jobs that SC light or darkness together easily. Make sure you can hit

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Originally Posted by Olor

Again, all of the things to even get CP bonuses are a huge grind. Making JP such a necessary thing for content is basically telling all new/returning players:

"Please solo grind for 1000 hours before considering participating in group content."

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Again not true. How is completing 2 Lair reives and/or Colonization reives per zone a huge grind? How is completing a Wildskeeper Reive once a huge grind? How is reachign rank 10 in a nation or completing a storyline a huge grind? How is changing your unity a huge grind? Summoning a trust? Having a COR in your party or subbing COR? Raising a monster in your Mog Garden? Buying a cape in the AH? I didn't even remember the Moghancement: Bounty CP Bonus. That's just hanging up a clock in your Mog House! A clock SE gave to us for free, and in unlimited quantities just a few months ago! You should be doing all this stuff anyway. If you can't solo this stuff, you shouldn't be concerned with JP.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

They are. If you quit just before Seekers got off the ground and you rejoined recently, it's one of the more intense grinds you can do currently. No one will carry you in CP parties unless you pay, because there's a HIGH CHANCE you will not even blow wind on an Apex monster, let alone barely dent the "starter" CP mobs thus making the grind longer and harder because you have to settle for the least efficient method until you can actually do the efficient one.

So..tell me, how isn't it a grind if you have to start from ground 0 in order to even reliably get JP?

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I JUST did this EXACT thing as what many people around here call THE WORST JOB IN THE GAME, so if I can do it, PLEASE tell me what YOUR excuse is?

You shouldn't be coming back to the game and jumping straight into Apex. It is something that needs to be built up to. Apex mobs have around the same evasion as a T2 Escha - Ruaun NM. Instead of coming here and complaining about game content that is functioning exceptionally and perfectly, people should instead ask for advice on how to maximize their CP gain, and how to gear and what to expect on the Job they are bringing to the party. The moment you ask this, myself and many others will likely respond with plethoras of information to help you.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Most players are not getting that, most jobs are not welcome in content that gives anything close to that, ever

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You are so terribly wrong about this. I have seen 100% of the jobs in this game perform their functions just fine in Apex parties. IF you need help understanding how to play in an Apex party, please just ask.

There are 979 people online right now on Asura.

Lets say 300 of them want Job points right now, please tell us all how 300 people can all get 50 or 100 jp per hour (and not only during double cp).

List camp locations, how many parties can be at those locations at once and job setup. Prove us wrong with facts and we can go test it.

The only reason you can get 50-100 JP per hour is because you have the best apex camps to yourselves. I have most of the KI mentioned and I farm CP in reisen, it's still around 15-20jp per hour. That's an unholy and boring as sin grind that even the most grind happy no-lifer can't stand past a certain point.

The person above stated they got thief to master in a month, so I assume they have all of their 99 jobs at master right? No? I wonder why?! because it's one of the most boring grinds on earth, in a game supposed to be played for fun.

Thanks Castanica, exactly.

So the people with the best gear, all mission content completed, on desired jobs can get job points fast-ish... doesn't mean it isn't a grind.

Also LOL at anyone who says doing missions isn't a grind. O. M. G.

Tried working on seekers this weekend had to spend 4 freaking hours trying to harvest/turn in a KI in yorcia weild... I almost rage quit the game entirely. Missions take FOREVER. So yes, they are a grind.

Saying it's a grind doesn't in any way prove the original claim made with this thread, though. Back in the day, I made a Mandau. The ultimate dagger of the game. It took me 1.5 years, living in my mother's basement, buying absolutely nothing else for my character, to acquire that thing. That's a grind. And it's been a foundation of this game from NA release, effectively.

Grind is a foundation of any MMO, isn't it? If you want the best stuff, you need to work for it. If you want your job to perform at its best, you need to grind to "master" it. And yes: I know I know, some people just leech off of others to get JP and don't work at all, but those people aren't us, are they? They are too lazy to work in a party, much less post on or read the forums. So lets remember our audience here: people who care enough about the game to try to change or enhance it.

No one is, has, or ever will say that any aspect of the video game called Final Fantasy XI is not a grind. That's what MMORPGs are. The OP called getting JP an "extreme" grind which is wholly, truly, and mathematically false. If you're for some bizarre reason trying to solo your JP or doing other silly things instead of simply joining the content that was specifically designed to increase the rate at which you gain job points, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

You people have forced me to write an Apex guide, hopefully I can post it tomorrow.

Complaining about the grind after SE gave skill books -.- do you even understand what a grind is? I takes someone 1 day to go from 1-99 with max stats from scratch. How much more of a easy mode do you want? I love JP farming, It took my wifey and myself about 2 months to get our main jobs (Drg and Smn) to 2100 just duo'ing it all. We took out time and enjoyed the feel of the old school style that we miss about the game. Its about the only thing left that can almost separate the players who leached their job to the top and those who worked for it.

Back in the day your combat/magic skills showed how skilled you were at a job, now its the stars that show it.

I do find JP is a grind, but its more a personal matter then a problem SE has created. My playtimes dont allow me to get into an apex pt (and being on asura i find people a tad rude and full of themselves if you try do something you havent done before) So my only option is soloing and its crazy slow....atm i have accumulated 900JP on my dnc and 800 on my pld. Some days i'm really sick of doing the same thing over and over again. But I dont like giving up so i'll prolly hit cap JP on one of those in a year ><