Fairness (Warning: rant ahead)

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Originally Posted by Powder

Really Ultimas? That is nice for you but for me all my friends have left me behind and not even bothered to ask me if I want to do Skirmish, farm plasm, or do delves so guess what? I haven't did any of that and as I watch who is doing all these things I am deleting them off my friend list. If that is friends I don't need any! Thank you. I am a loner and have struggled in this game to get where I am. I am disgusted how this expansion has brought out the shitty character of people. I come from a very different generation than 98% of people in this game. I have only found 4 people older than me. The more I read these forums and the more I see who is doing what in the game the less I play or even have the heart to log on. I am almost done with this game. I feel screwed myself I don't know what others feel but I don't see much laughter and fun anymore. Doing anything in the game is a pain. I for one don't care to jump in an alliance with 17 people I don't know and if I did and an ass said something to me rude I would chew them up and spit them out. This game has a way of exposing people's character and I see people throwing friends away for a damn game. /sigh

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Wow you are complaining about other peoples attitudes? Really? Did you even read your own post? Oo

My first endgame LS was the one I wanted to stay with for the longest period of time, simply because I was allowed to lot for some of the good gear within one or two weeks. Not all good gear, not the best good gear, but I was constantly given *something* that was better than one of the pieces I had from before I joined. I think I got heca feet on my second sky run, for example, including the cursed item for them.

It doesn't sound like a lot today, but at the time, even buying the NQ cursed item cost like twice as much as the highest amount of gil I had ever been in possession of. I felt like I had just won the lottery, even if it was pretty cheap for the LS as a whole. Making new players feel like they're winners (even if they're just getting leftovers) makes them want to stay longer.

I think I also only had war75 at that time, no other jobs.

Yes, long time members should be taken care of, of course, because they have shown that they are consistent and reliable. However, in terms of the total power of a group, it can sometimes be better to (forgive me for using content levels now) gear 5 members up from gear level 99 to gear level 110, rather than 2 people from gear level 118 to gear level 119, especially if the time required for these two examples would be roughly the same.

I think a good shell should have a fair balance between getting "relatively easy (for a group) to get but still pretty good" gear for new players, and getting bleeding edge gear for characters that already have cutting edge gear.

If your group has three or four events a week, let one or two of them be focused on gearing up lower tier players, by doing events that are fast to clear for a good group and that delivers relatively good rewards. This will make the new players want to stay in your shell for a longer time, and also makes these new players perform better when they're later helping you to get gear for the best players.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

My first endgame LS was the one I wanted to stay with for the longest period of time, simply because I was allowed to lot for some of the good gear within one or two weeks. Not all good gear, not the best good gear, but I was constantly given *something* that was better than one of the pieces I had from before I joined. I think I got heca feet on my second sky run, for example, including the cursed item for them.

It doesn't sound like a lot today, but at the time, even buying the NQ cursed item cost like twice as much as the highest amount of gil I had ever been in possession of. I felt like I had just won the lottery, even if it was pretty cheap for the LS as a whole. Making new players feel like they're winners (even if they're just getting leftovers) makes them want to stay longer.

I think I also only had war75 at that time, no other jobs.

Yes, long time members should be taken care of, of course, because they have shown that they are consistent and reliable. However, in terms of the total power of a group, it can sometimes be better to (forgive me for using content levels now) gear 5 members up from gear level 99 to gear level 110, rather than 2 people from gear level 118 to gear level 119, especially if the time required for these two examples would be roughly the same.

I think a good shell should have a fair balance between getting "relatively easy (for a group) to get but still pretty good" gear for new players, and getting bleeding edge gear for characters that already have cutting edge gear.

If your group has three or four events a week, let one or two of them be focused on gearing up lower tier players, by doing events that are fast to clear for a good group and that delivers relatively good rewards. This will make the new players want to stay in your shell for a longer time, and also makes these new players perform better when they're later helping you to get gear for the best players.

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^ love this idea a lot.

In response to OP, if you can't find a shell that fits your style, then make one. There are likely more people on your server that are looking for the same thing.

Well, maybe.

The thing with Linkshells is its like a job in a lot of ways, Even if you don't think of it like one, It is. Its not a Guild full of NPCs, Its a bunch of real people, and in that kind of situation it either becomes a friendly circle, or a Business-Friendship Type deal.

In a lot of these cases, Those who contribute the most, or the best geared, or the most helpful, tend to earn higher positions in the linkshell, even if its not through Sackholding, but more just "Leader/Sack favorites". Unfortunately for others, even if the LS leader is reasonable, this means those who aren't the favorites will, unfortunately, be below or less favorable than those who have taken to those spots.

This is a tad unfair, but its also human nature, Everyone has friends, enemies, best friends, so forth... Its just life. That said its also up to chance rather you get a good Reasonable LS Leader, a self-serving a**, or a Sheep in Antlion's Clothing(using the FFXI versions gtfo)... Saddly I come across Sheep In Antlion's clothing more often than i come across t he other two. Leaders who appear reasonable on the outside but are really just out to serve themselves and their favorites or perceived besties before all else.

TBH those I feel are worse than the self-serving a**es. The ones who can fake liking you just enough that you question if whats happening is coincidence, in your head, or whatever... Those are the ones that really kill your enthusiasm to play. If he's an a** you can at least love to hate him and in turn actively seek another LS knowing you're in a craphole... But these types, You just don't know, and it causes hesitation, so you sit, you wait, and hope for change or reason.

Lucky for me I've managed to mostly avoid these types of leaders lately, as they seem to be a dying breed and people just don't care to fake it anymore so you get Good fair leaders, or the bad ones... If all you can find is the bad ones, Make your own... Honestly this will really help you in two ways. One, You'll learn managing a LS isn't as easy as it might seem, Managing 17+ People is difficult and you'll find you'll want to boot/avoid some of them as well because they aren't likeable, or so forth... and two, You have that chance of finding all those like-minded people to help you, and you can give them a real chance at a fair leader.

What it boils down too is, You absolutely can not let the bad, self-serving, favorite playing, True-Elitist Types bring you to the brink of quitting. Create your own shell, Help the newbies out, Build your friends and players up, and give them and yourself that shell you've wanted. It'll be hard, but I'm sure it'll be worth it for you.

We've heard people say "Vote with your wallet" when we're unhappy with a developer, but with linkshells, the more appropriate mantra is probably, "Vote with your time." If you don't like how a particular linkshell is run - how it distributes loot, how it treats new members, the attitude of the veteran members, etc. - don't join the linkshell. Joining them and helping them out is basically a vote in their column, saying "What you're doing is fine by me."

In my opinion, the worst thing you can do in this scenario is to join a shell without being 100% clear on their rules, or to protest one of the rules you don't like in the heat of the moment. As somebody who worked with a few event linkshells in the past, few things were more frustrating than somebody - usually a new member - flipping out as the five-minute treasure ticked down to zero.

If the group's leader doesn't want to explain all the rules to you clearly, if they're not following the rules that they laid into place, or if they don't seem to have any rules at all, take that into account when you're deciding whether or not to give them your time. If what they're doing is really that unacceptable, the group will eventually dissolve or, hopefully, evolve to be more accommodating to other players. In the meantime, it opens up the opportunity to start your own group, make your own rules, and figure out which system ends up being the more enjoyable.

Karbuncle I love to read your posts. You communicate so well and with good common sense and knowledge. I wished we were on the same server. This game is like a garden I weed through looking for kindred spirits. I watch how I meet people and it's never by accident I feel I meant to know them for one reason or another.