Elemental Magic Adjustments Continued

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Originally Posted by Camate

On the other hand, the magic used by automatons and adventuring fellows are classified as player type magic, and as such these adjustments will be applied to them as well.

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It's nice to know automatons aren't forgotten, I have a feeling umbrils are not going to like that update ;D
I just hope that MP increase on Thunder V isn't going to cause the maton to initiate Aspir/Aspir II spam mode after the first nuke...

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Originally Posted by Daemon

This post is in regard to the new elemental magic adjustment.

Sorry Guys I did post this on the test server feedback area thinking that it was the correct place to share my opinion, so Please forgive me for the repost here, As it seems the devs are responding through this post only.

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This could not be said any better. I play BLM and WAR as DD's and I've always mained BLM. I put so much time and effort into BLM and I still destroy it with my warrior and I don't even try to top my WAR's gear...I've always focused on BLM. I've spammed Hi-Elixir's during Delve NM fights and still struggle to come out on the top of the meters...our damage is pitiful per nuke and downtime from MP is awful.

Upheaval pulls ~ 3k-5k Average damage on NM's with proper setup in a group (bard + Cor) and my BLM, with COR doing magic acc + Magic atk and bards doing double etudes, only does around 2500 max nuke assuming it was never resisted (and resist rates are high on the new delve NMs)...but I can go on warrior and just wreck what my BLM output could be in seconds from capped haste, and decent weapon skill gear.

Many people tell me BLM aren't DD. I used to be successful in proving them wrong before Adoulin...but now it's rediculous with the new weapons :(

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Originally Posted by Kristal

Those are damage over time spells, and Kaustra isn't even elemental magic. This thread is about nukes, so while Meteor is relevant, helixes and Kaustra are not. Might as well ask about RDM merit tier 2 changes then.

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I am assuming you do not know much about Helix spells or Kaustra.

Yes, they are DoT spells, but their original damage is what effects the damage that is delt over time. For instance if you use a Helix on a mob for 150 damage, it will do 150 damage every time the DoT hurts the mob. Kaustra is similar and yet different, it goes by roughly 1/3rd of the original damage every tick. Also, while Kaustra is in fact a Dark Magic spell, Helix spells are actually elemental spells, all of them have elements attached, and thus, at very least Helix spells should be included in this adjustment. The fact they are damage over time should not change the fact they need adjusted as well, because that exact damage is effected by the original damage, so without them being improved, these spells will fall into the pile of worthless spells just like Meteor and such.

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Originally Posted by Slib

Many people tell me BLM aren't DD. I used to be successful in proving them wrong before Adoulin...but now it's rediculous with the new weapons :(

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These adjustments will only put it back where it was too, where decent WARs can either keep up with or beat BLM, and good WARs can beat BLMs all the time. Originally these adjustments seemed as though they would make nuking a viable source of damage, comparable to melee damage, but instead... looks like all its going to do is set it further behind in the race than it was before Adoulin was even released.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I am assuming you do not know much about Helix spells or Kaustra.

Yes, they are DoT spells, but their original damage is what effects the damage that is delt over time. For instance if you use a Helix on a mob for 150 damage, it will do 150 damage every time the DoT hurts the mob. Kaustra is similar and yet different, it goes by roughly 1/3rd of the original damage every tick. Also, while Kaustra is in fact a Dark Magic spell, Helix spells are actually elemental spells, all of them have elements attached, and thus, at very least Helix spells should be included in this adjustment. The fact they are damage over time should not change the fact they need adjusted as well, because that exact damage is effected by the original damage, so without them being improved, these spells will fall into the pile of worthless spells just like Meteor and such.

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I'm aware of the mechanics of these spells, and while I'm sure they could use some dev love, they are not the focus of this particular update. Just like cure spells and enfeebling magic got their own updates, dot spells will (probably) get their own little attention span by the devs.

As for making Meteor usefull, there's a very simple solution for that. Give the spell to BLM automatons, and limit it's casting to Overdrive (perhaps as an automatic reaction to a party BLM casting the spell, so they can't use it without a BLM present).

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Originally Posted by Kristal

I'm aware of the mechanics of these spells, and while I'm sure they could use some dev love, they are not the focus of this particular update. Just like cure spells and enfeebling magic got their own updates, dot spells will (probably) get their own little attention span by the devs.

As for making Meteor usefull, there's a very simple solution for that. Give the spell to BLM automatons, and limit it's casting to Overdrive (perhaps as an automatic reaction to a party BLM casting the spell, so they can't use it without a BLM present).

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Even though they are damage over time spells, this is "Elemental Magic Adjustments". Helix spells are Elemental Magic. Yes, they work different, but they are still applicable.

Have to understand that helixes are a completely different animal though--thier main use is the DoT factor, which may run 15 rounds at 99 (possibly longer?). Though they receive bonuses from INT/MAB and get day/weather bonus/penalties like direct damage elemental spells....their main benefit is their DoT factor.

Let's take the given example of 150 damage with say Ionohelix. That's potentially upwards of 2250 damage (150 X 15) for just 26 MP. Compare that to the cost of a BLM's spells capable of such output. Even if it's on for a shorter duration, like say 9 rounds, that's still 1350 damage for just 26 MP--with very low enmity pull by comparison.

Thus, they are already VASTLY more efficient than a BLM's nukes (when the mob survives the full duration of the spell, that is)--and still will be after these adjustments.

Bear in mind also, Helixes are spells that are learned below level 50 (as in available with subjob)...not something that had to be meritted at 75 or otherwise learned around 70 or higher. Just further stresses the need to enhance direct damage elemental magic--the alternative could be for SE to focus on balancing things by nerfing Helixes. We don't want that, now do we?

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Bear in mind also, Helixes are spells that are learned below level 50 (as in available with subjob)...not something that had to be meritted at 75 or otherwise learned around 70 or higher. Just further stresses the need to enhance direct damage elemental magic--the alternative could be for SE to focus on balancing things by nerfing Helixes. We don't want that, now do we?

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The duration cut is the balance for having them as a subjob.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

The duration cut is the balance for having them as a subjob.

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Even so, it's still what...7-9 ticks as a level 49 cast?. Base damage around 25, modified by dINT and MAB, as well as day/weather bonuses. That's still a nice spot of potential damage from a 26 mp spell that you learned around level 28 or so.

And that's the point I was trying to make. A spell learned below level 40 that when used at 99 can out damage and be vastly more efficient than one that has to be meritted at 75 or otherwise learned around level 70 or higher--can even rival/exceed the output/efficiency of a spell learned at level 90+ for that matter.

Seriously I do hope the devs reanalyze the way us mages have it in game. Its pretty ridiculous that we are heavily needed on most jobs as support to keep the non magic casting jobs alive and a good amount of our mp go toward that and the very few Nuking jobs that we do have are being given limitations and unfair adjustments. On the nuking side of things, Making us use even more mp to cast spells that are not even new..... Whats going on?

How old are Tier IV spells?

We are given new gears through adoulin/delve to improve our MAB+INT Etc, then adjustments from the devs are being made to improve our dmg makes me think that the dmg with the new gears was off and thats why these stats are being changed

where as....

DD gets new gears and their dmg are even more massive than before yet I dont see any adjustments being made so they can "Have more power but more downtime"

Blackmage is not a cheap class to play. Some of us, If not all, actually spend Millions of gil on 1 spell .... "Cough..... Meteor.... Cough......"

And by the way, this is not about Abyssea, where you have cruor buffs, atmas, and other options to give you overpowered stats and abilities...temp items to give you MP...

This is about playing outside zones where you depend on your real stats. Where you actually have to carry food, medicine, elixers, TP wings, any other viable resources to recover your mp.

SE really... You give us a cookie but take away our milk.