What will become of Red Mage v1.0?

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

To clarify how what I am saying is different. You are talking about DDs complaining they do not have proper buffs to eat one type of food and that they must use another. I am complaining it is not possible for my job to do so many things while maintaining any form of melee that would be worth performing in the first place. It would be like a DD complaining that they can not hit the mobs even when eating sushi unless they have a BRD, then you refuse to give then a BRD. If I am in this situation I speak of, my melee is pointless, no point in trying something I will fail at anyways, I would be better off spending my random 3 seconds I would get to melee instead Hasting the other DDs.

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You missed my point, I used the DD comparison because the solution to their woes is to change the party/alliance setup if they refuse to change food. The answer is the same for a RDM who wants enough time to melee, i.e. get 2 RDMs and now those 5 Refreshes become 2 and 3 per RDM, you can split up the enfeebles the same way.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

You missed my point, I used the DD comparison because the solution to their woes is to change the party/alliance setup if they refuse to change food. The answer is the same for a RDM who wants enough time to melee, i.e. get 2 RDMs and now those 5 Refreshes become 2 and 3 per RDM, you can split up the enfeebles the same way.

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At that point you get another problem you do not get with a DD, most party leaders would rather a fully mage RDM and a fully DD WAR or DRK rather than 2 RDMs who are meleeing 2/3rds of the time and spending the other 1/3rd casting.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

At that point you get another problem you do not get with a DD, most party leaders would rather a fully mage RDM and a fully DD WAR or DRK rather than 2 RDMs who are meleeing 2/3rds of the time and spending the other 1/3rd casting.

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I didn't think I'd have to explain this but I guess so, if you don't know leaders willing to let you melee on RDM man up and take hold of the yellow (and white) dot.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I didn't think I'd have to explain this but I guess so, if you don't know leaders willing to let you melee on RDM man up and take hold of the yellow (and white) dot.

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And the cop out response rears its ugly head.

Joining the status quo and making us acceptable within it is not a bad thing, and should be the primary goal behind any change made to RDM. It also includes our melee side, and should be on every party leader's mind without us having to force the issue. It shouldn't be so far outside the realm of options to people who play other jobs that the only way we can do it is if we make our own damn parties and alliances. And that applies to every job in this game, not just RDM.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I didn't think I'd have to explain this but I guess so, if you don't know leaders willing to let you melee on RDM man up and take hold of the yellow (and white) dot.

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Even if I have leaders who are willing to let me come RDM and fight up close, it does not mean they will find another one they trust just the same. I get what you are trying to say, my point is simply that it is not the same case for RDM really. RDM can not melee when to much is on their table, that is for sure, otherwise it becomes a meaningless effort, and when there is not enough for them to do most people do not take them at all. I should not have to personally know a leader to be allowed to come as my main job, it should not be in such a position, improving RDM's melee power is what this thread is about so far as I can tell, and I am behind it 100% as there are a few changes they could make which would better the job a ton. One is casting and melee rounds being possible at the same time, can this be done technically? I dunno, maybe, if so, awesome, if not, oh well, worth a shot, how about giving us good Regen like SCH's to lighten our cure load? No that would be stepping into their forte? Ok, I can understand that, maybe give us a 100% Composure effect on our Emp gear, that would help the Rebuffing others problems. All in all there are many ways to tackle this problem, as I said, I feel wrong that I have to know the leader personally to get into a party and be able to melee, or even get a party at all in most cases. When I have to do that kind of thing just to join a party I often feel like I am a drain on the party, even if I am doing great or not to bad by compare to the majority of the group, I always feel like my job is just that terrible, not a feeling I should get on my main job I believe.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

And the cop out response rears its ugly head.

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You know what's funny the worst PLD I've seen in a long time got 6/6 Delve clears simply by leading groups.
That PLD got kicked from a few Plasm farming runs he's joined because he couldn't hold a monster for 30 seconds let alone 45 minutes. He's now farming Plasm by leading the runs.

It's not a cop out answer if you want to do something outside of the box for main stream lead.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Joining the status quo and making us acceptable within it is not a bad thing, and should be the primary goal behind any change made to RDM. It also includes our melee side, and should be on every party leader's mind without us having to force the issue. It shouldn't be so far outside the realm of options to people who play other jobs that the only way we can do it is if we make our own damn parties and alliances. And that applies to every job in this game, not just RDM.

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Thing is RDM is acceptable in the Japanese community, it's the NA/EU/Other communities that in general don't see a point to RDM and likely never will until it can out DD the typical DD or gets something completely unique to RDM that's overpowered like a short recast unresistable Terror or Demi.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

It's not a cop out answer if you want to do something outside of the box for main stream lead.

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It's a cop out answer because all you're saying is "I don't want your problems to be solved, so go do this away from me and others like me so instead of getting to play with us, you can partake on the uphill battle of getting people to actually follow you in something they probably realize is different and thus hesitant to actually do". Which only continues to keep us outside the community instead of helping us join it.

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Thing is RDM is acceptable in the Japanese community, it's the NA/EU/Other communities that in general don't see a point to RDM and likely never will until it can out DD the typical DD or gets something completely unique to RDM that's overpowered like a short recast unresistable Terror or Demi.

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Going with the flow is what the Japanese are all about, so I don't expect them to raise a stink over RDM; at least, not in the way the non-JP melee camp does. The threads have been made, including "I want to be like Rainemard-sensei", "I want Enflare as a new spell", along with a LOT of ideas that mirror what we've been suggesting on our side of the forums. It's not like NA/EU are the only ones asking for this sort of thing. We're just a little more vocal about it.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

What job couldnt it do? I dont know, probably would be able to do everything at an ok level. Weirdly enough RDM is meant to be the Jack of all Trades, master of none. Being able to do all jobs seems like it goes with that title I think.

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It already is. So what, it can't melee as well as a blu. It's a jack of all trades, master of none. Your words.

. It is a good healer. The hardest content requires a great one.
. It is a great support mage. The hardest content uses that.
. It is a good nuker. The hardest content requires a best nuker if you're going to strategize around nuking.
. It has excellent survivability.
. It could tank, if people allowed a little ramp up time, war probably necessary. An rdm in a good dt set could probably supertank the butterflies and grasshopper NMs. It's probably already been done, I've just not seen it.
. It melees better than the other mage jobs, and probably better than some melees.
. It is the best enfeebler, and that matters when a hard boss can be enfeebled. It was poor design that enfeebles were nearly worthless for so long.
Immunobreak! lol

RDM is less deserving of a dd spot than bst, or especially nin.

When I get on RDM (I play it now and then, but only because I happen to have mage and melee gear that fits it), I have fun meleeing. It is enjoyable, but to desire to outpace melee that are currently lacking (and that's what your asking for, because the groups don't want to invite thf, dnc, nin, or bst any more than a melee rdm)... is absurd.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The question should be "why not?".

If you notice, everything mentioned so far has been melee-related. I doubt any of us would ask for a return of ye olde "kite+DoT+Nuke" soloing, which encompassed all RDM soloing pre-Abyssea. I personally want the sword to be more useful and RDM to be kept in mind and treated as a melee mage. Right now the job is an afterthought, and has been treated as such since the Abyssea era.

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actually, even before Aby rdm had been relegated to a healer/haster in bird parties for the most part, melee rdm (which were my favorite type FYI) died pretty much with the release of ToAU, and had only been limping to that point since god forbid a melee DD be 1 second without his haste.

Misread. Apologies for the confusion.