surefire way to get SE to drop ps2 support

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Originally Posted by oliveira

Well, PS2 uses a lightweight simplified POSIX (linux/unix like) kernel, extremely optimized I/O drivers (compared to the generic stuff Windows use to be compatible with anything) running on a dedicated I/O CPU and a ridiculously high video memory bandwidth (around 38 GB per second) ... You could probably have four veridical confluxes spinning close to each other and the PS2 would not slow down a single frame from all that effects being drawn.

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Pretty silly thread at this point, but I can't help myself! The PS2 was fairly impressive back in its day, but c'mon. It's using a 5400rpm hard drive on a UDMA66 connection. Even if it has an infinitely fast IO subsystem, it grabs textures and models off a drive with a random read speed of ~0.5MB/s. Also, the video memory bandwidth wouldn't matter for model loading speed; only the speed of its DMA controller would matter (said to be ~133MB/s when reading through the IO processor, 2.4GB/s from main memory).

The PC I used for that video has an SSD with random read speed of ~80MB/s. Even if windows' notoriously lousy threading and IO scheduling slow the drive down by 100X, it should be at least as fast as a PS2, but in reality it's 10X slower! Seems impossible that it could be that slow from a harware perspective -- I suspect that XI intentionally throttles model loading rate on the PC...

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Originally Posted by katoplepa

months ago, wehn abyssea was losing of interest, all the people said : to keep this game alive, we need another expansion! we need another continent! another capital! we need another.... etc.

SE heared and they done the survey, remember? "what system you use to login in the game?" well... I don't know the results, but now the answer is here : drop ps2 support, and release of a new expansion, with a new continent, a new capital, etc.

without new expansions, with new zones and new things to do, the game die, so SE needs to drop the ps2 support to keep this game alive.

you will play this game forever on ps2 even whitout no more expansions, no more new things to do?

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But they are continuing to support it. This game IS a console game. Plan and simple, you only have this game because it was released on the PS2 first.

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Originally Posted by Mifaco

Things to thank the PS2 for:

-Halfassed port to Windows complete with absent IME due to licensing issues.
-Terrible console-focused UI that is ages behind WoW or any other PC game.
-Horrible draw distance on the Windows version.
-50 model limit - thanks for shopping PJ, come again when you can see me.
-Auto-translate dictionary is full, we'll never get another auto-translate term added again.
-No visible capes.
-Absolutely horrible UI scaling for a UI designed for a 640x480 resolution. I sure do like having my alliance boxes disappear for no reason when I open my macro menu!
-Graphical DOWNGRADES - yes, DOWNGRADES - because the PS2 just can't handle it. Case in point: Aern bracelets and Avatar glows used to look much better before they were downgraded
-Endless corridor after corridor after corridor, even in outdoor areas. Notice how there are few really "wide open" areas in the expansion areas?

Face facts, supporting a dying platform is foolish. This game could have been so much more were it not chained to the PS2.

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Well, You CAN go play FF14, right now it's still a PC only game and looks amazing... Oh, but it's launch didn't do so swift... hmm. Maybe because graphics aren't everything, and PC exclusive UI doesn't always meet what you're looking for either. This game is amazing in the aspect that it has broken the boundaries. To my knowledge, there has never been a game that allowed True Multi-platform interaction. There a few games like Call of Duty that has some PC/XBox, but never A Sony machine and a Windows Machine. I like my friends on PS2, and welcome people from XBoxes and PCs. Why is it just so freakin' hard for people to enjoy what they have? Yes, things need to be tweaked, but Graphics are not on my high points of selling things. Play Minecraft looks like trash, but it's awesomely addictive!

Also: Roadmap They're looking to update the UI...

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Originally Posted by Diraco

Pretty silly thread at this point, but I can't help myself! The PS2 was fairly impressive back in its day, but c'mon. It's using a 5400rpm hard drive on a UDMA66 connection. Even if it has an infinitely fast IO subsystem, it grabs textures and models off a drive with a random read speed of ~0.5MB/s. Also, the video memory bandwidth wouldn't matter for model loading speed; only the speed of its DMA controller would matter (said to be ~133MB/s when reading through the IO processor, 2.4GB/s from main memory).

The PC I used for that video has an SSD with random read speed of ~80MB/s. Even if windows' notoriously lousy threading and IO scheduling slow the drive down by 100X, it should be at least as fast as a PS2, but in reality it's 10X slower! Seems impossible that it could be that slow from a harware perspective -- I suspect that XI intentionally throttles model loading rate on the PC...

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Actually, I think I read that it does just that because when the PC version was released PCs weren't exactly as capable as the PS2 when it came to graphics. Square's solution was to treat PCs as being less capable. Of course, it's a non-issue now but then we're back to the argument of rebuilding the game, only this time the PC version.

It be nice if they slowly start to get to get rid the ps2 support, but the problem is microsoft owns the rights to this game on this current generation of consoles til 2016 i think. and xbox not selling to well in japan so those in japan on ps2 or pc or portable system the ps3 version game is hacked version that microsoft or sony not really dealing with it at the moment.

Microsoft gave square a emulater that can play any console game up to the xbox360 in the agreement. reason the xbox version seem so weak because being emulated , if they just support pc and xbox and slowly start to update the engine dont need do it in a day it be crazy for pc and xbox users and make it so ps2 version game cant go those areas with enhance graphics just there ps2 ver , and any new areas if on the ps2 cant go to that area need update system pc or xbox. xbox 360 can handle a ton stuff, just pc able to tweek stuff.

I honestly think it's a crock of crap for SE to drop Sony players from being able to play with the new expansion they could at least work with Sony to make PS3 workable with FFXI format and what not, I am a PC player granted but my husband and brother in law are not, so it's not fair -_-

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Originally Posted by sc4500

Microsoft gave square a emulater that can play any console game up to the xbox360 in the agreement. reason the xbox version seem so weak because being emulated , if they just support pc and xbox and slowly start to update the engine dont need do it in a day it be crazy for pc and xbox users and make it so ps2 version game cant go those areas with enhance graphics just there ps2 ver , and any new areas if on the ps2 cant go to that area need update system pc or xbox. xbox 360 can handle a ton stuff, just pc able to tweek stuff.

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The 360 version is a rapid port from the Windows version. It's not run on anything that's being emulated.

Take a look at all the remastered ports of PS2 games for the PS3 or 360. The God of War collection, Shadow of the Colossus, MGS 2 and 3. These all are games where a large amount of effort and work went into "improving the graphics" and other aspects of each game. They don't look anymore radically improved than the 360/PC versions of FFXI over the PS2 ones. All dropping the PS2 version would do is loose players.

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Originally Posted by Diraco

The PC I used for that video has an SSD with random read speed of ~80MB/s. Even if windows' notoriously lousy threading and IO scheduling slow the drive down by 100X, it should be at least as fast as a PS2, but in reality it's 10X slower! Seems impossible that it could be that slow from a harware perspective -- I suspect that XI intentionally throttles model loading rate on the PC...

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Your 5Ghz PC is being smoked by a 300Mhz console? Ouch... And Windows threading is fairly efficient. You shouldn't just say "the one thing that's slower MUST be made to be slower" it doesn't work like that. The hardware specs does not matter. How you use the hardware does.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

But they are continuing to support it. This game IS a console game. Plan and simple, you only have this game because it was released on the PS2 first.

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yes but 10 years passed by ... world's changed and playerbase too... now the playerbase is on PC, and we are glad to continue paying monthly fee if SE release new contents, new expansions and new things to do... and to do this, SE need to drop ps2 support... drop ps2 = chances to develop new expansions = keep this game alive = playerbase continue to pay

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Originally Posted by Laraul

The 360 version is a rapid port from the Windows version. It's not run on anything that's being emulated.

Take a look at all the remastered ports of PS2 games for the PS3 or 360. The God of War collection, Shadow of the Colossus, MGS 2 and 3. These all are games where a large amount of effort and work went into "improving the graphics" and other aspects of each game. They don't look anymore radically improved than the 360/PC versions of FFXI over the PS2 ones. All dropping the PS2 version would do is loose players.

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They do, actually. 4x AA, progressive scan instead of interlacing, and stable 60 fps add up to a significant improvement over how the games ran on the PS2. Additionally, this is done with hardware that is significantly weaker than current PCs, especially in the GPU department.

I also think you greatly exaggerate the amount of work that making a HD port of a PS2 game takes.

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Originally Posted by katoplepa

yes but 10 years passed by ... world's changed and playerbase too... now the playerbase is on PC, and we are glad to continue paying monthly fee if SE release new contents, new expansions and new things to do... and to do this, SE need to drop ps2 support... drop ps2 = chances to develop new expansions = keep this game alive = playerbase continue to pay

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And the PS2 players pay that monthly fee just the same. They've add ToAU, WotG, and 6 mini-expansions. I think that pretty good amount for unit that has "limitations." There's no reason to drop support if people still use. They've proven they can install stuff to improve the the UI for the Xbox and PC without impacting the PS2 people. This should be no different.