Gravity II

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Originally Posted by Trangnai

If your Grav is only lasting 30 seconds something is wrong. that aside yes, this spell is useless for the same reasons tier I grav is useless, because SE is so scared or rdms being able to do anything that they had to nurf this spell to be enitrely worthless.

I must ask why there isnt a dev tag thought, the devs should see that this spell is already worthless before they make it mainstream. thought I'm sure it won't change anything, all SE has done sense the level cap increase was troll rdm.

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Spoken from someone who's never kited a NM before.

Gravity lands on regular monsters for up to 120 seconds, but on NM's your lucky to get 30s tops and usually 15s or less. And that's assuming it even lands in the first place. SE did this to inhibit all those RDM soloists from using gravity to kite nuke NM's.

Aye but the catch 22 is Gravity I/II are only really needed for and useful for NM's. SE's approach with current mobs are fodder = too weak to merit casting most of our enfeebles to begin with and NM's = So damn resistant or outright immune enfeebles don't do shit. I've more than given up on SE to try and give RDM a normal approach that isn't restricted out the arse, so I'm pretty positive most would agree with me that any "fixes" to enfeebling are going to be ridiculously flawed it will end up being another nerf in disguise, that's why most people know there is little if any point in handing us a higher tier Gravity.

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Originally Posted by Swords

Aye but the catch 22 is Gravity I/II are only really needed for and useful for NM's. SE's approach with current mobs are fodder = too weak to merit casting most of our enfeebles to begin with and NM's = So damn resistant or outright immune enfeebles don't do shit. I've more than given up on SE to try and give RDM a normal approach that isn't restricted out the arse, so I'm pretty positive most would agree with me that any "fixes" to enfeebling are going to be ridiculously flawed it will end up being another nerf in disguise, that's why most people know there is little if any point in handing us a higher tier Gravity.

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This is what I keep trying to tell people. They all want to put on the rose glass's and talk about how they enfeebled a crab or a raptor back "in the day". Thing is, enfeebles have always been ~meh~ on NMs, but then SE went way overboard and destroyed their usefulness. In a way I can't blame them, the enfeebles they created would be break the game should they be allowed full tilt. Imagine silencing abyssea or VWNM's. Or Paralyzing 25% of their actions. Being able to use CC on them like Break / Bind / Gravity / Sleep. It becomes one of those things where if it works, then it breaks the fight, so they made it so it's complete trash. The only fix would be to create a new line of enfeebles that didn't involve new game mechanics and didn't disable the NM.

To be honest I think old school enfeebling mechanics would work well with how the VWNM's are currently setup in power. No one can deny they're pretty stupid powerful, but if they weren't built with new school enfeebling resistances/immunities it would pull the VWNM's down just enough they are a bit more manageable giving a good balance, proving people arn't just trying to zerg their way through them of course.

Thinking about it now, if SE really intends on "fixing" enfeebling wouldn't it be counter-productive to give RDM another tier of Gravity. Even if mobs will still gain resistance quickly, they are still giving RDM another kite tool to cycle through, further enforcing the whole Avestapocolypse 2.0 they've been desperately trying to avoid. So either my point in my previous post is further enforced that any "Fixes" are going to be flawed, nerfs in disguise, OR SE intends on setting us up for further enfeebling nerfs once they realized what a big mistake they just made.

I'm pretty sure we are all just pissed off that instead of NMs reduce the potency of enfeebles, they just threw the problem out the window and started making things immune because they didn't want to deal with the problems surrounding Bind, Gravity, and Sleep.

They already have enfeebles somewhat coded for NMs with Saboteur. The JA realizes the difference between something that is fodder and something that is a NM. So why not have the same distinction for reducing potency on enfeebles instead of making them immune?

If the difference between Slow and Slow 2 on a NM was a legitimate difference in potency, people might actually want a RDM around for enfeebles. My solution would be get rid of the floor value for normal Enfeebles. That way you can take off the immunity towards enfeebles, but still make it possible for an NM to completely reduce the potency of the enfeeble to nothing. The advantage for having something like Slow 2 is that it would have a floor value.

Slow 1's floor value is (150 + dMND*2)/1024. No matter how bad you are at enfeebling, if you land slow, you get 150/1024, or ~15% slow. Potency is based off the comparison of Caster MND to Target MND, or dMND. If an NM has higher MND than the caster, then if there is no floor value, your Slow 1 hits for a 0% slow.

Slow 2's floor value is ([230] + [y * 10] + [floor(dMND * 1.6)])/1024, where y = number of merits in Slow II. At 1 Merit, your at a ~24% slow, at 5 merits you are at ~28% Slow. If you reduce Slow 2's floor by the same amount that you reduced Slow 1, then you get 90/1024 or ~9% for 1 merit and 130/1024 or ~13% for 5 merits. Everyone can still land enfeebles, but if you don't have a superior slow, you may not get any actual effect. (No idea which side they would put NIN)

Another thing to notice is the difference in the dMND multiplier for Slow vs Slow 2. So the difference in MND is more substantial for Slow 1 than it is for Slow 2. The reason for that is the higher floor value on Slow 2 more than makes up for the loss in scaling. So if you are not a RDM and you want to enfeeble, you still can. You just have to have the accuracy to land your enfeebles and you have to have more MND, or INT on other enfeebles, than what you are enfeebling.

Mobs can still have extremely high magic resists so that it is difficult for even a RDM to be able land the enfeebles. In that case you make the decision about which resist-able enfeeble is most important. You go as RDM/BLM and use Elemental Seal + Saboteur on that mob and hope you can land anything else for the rest of the fight. And every other caster can do this too, but they still have to have the potency on their enfeebles to make it worth doing.

We don't need to have immunity on NMs, we just need to have qualitative differences in potency that can simulate immunity for most jobs. If your priority is enfeebling, you would want a RDM because they can guarantee that there will be some level of potency to what they stick on a mob.

SE did hard code NM's to have reduced potency. Many NM's still have hard coded potency reduction, especially in the case of Paralyze. What players did was go from using Gravity to using Bind while saving Gravity for resists / emergency's only. It was only after this that SE finally threw up their hands and just made everything immune to movement restriction spells.

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Originally Posted by saevel

SE did hard code NM's to have reduced potency. Many NM's still have hard coded potency reduction, especially in the case of Paralyze. What players did was go from using Gravity to using Bind while saving Gravity for resists / emergency's only. It was only after this that SE finally threw up their hands and just made everything immune to movement restriction spells.

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Yeah but they made everything immune to everything else besides movement speed restrictions at the same time.

The reduction of potency and the ability to land spells has always been an issue that players have to over come. How do you overcome straight immunity?

I mean really what is the point of putting Gravity II in the game if it is going to work just as poorly as everything else on RDM that falls under enfeebles?