Are alternative payment options being considered?

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FFXIFees - $5 Crysta - $10 Crysta - $20 Crysta - $40 Crysta
12.95 ------ 15.00 ------20.00 ------ 20.00 ------ 40.00
25.90 ------ 30.00 ------40.00 ------ 40.00
38.85 ------ 40.00
51.80 ------ 55.00 ------ 60.00 ------ 60.00 ------ 80.00
64.75 ------ 65.00 ------ 70.00 ------ 80.00
77.70 ------ 80.00 ------ 80.00
90.65 ----- 100.00

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I'm going to have to stop you right there, as there's something wrong with this picture. You made a mistake here and thus you may have made mistakes elsewhere; you only need $95 in crysta to cover $90.65.

And there are many times where you can back out and only have lost a couple nickels. HEAVEN FORBID.

Also, the Crysta amounts don't exist in a vaccum. Any intelligent person would see that , assuming you did use crysta for 8 years just to get every penny's worth of crysta used up, that if you put crysta in with $20 incriments, you could then add $10 and $5 to come out to the same $1295 that someone who felt the need to add crysta in $5 incriments did.

eh.. brain fart.. you try manually typing all that crap out in the middle of the night. The end result is still correct. In case you didn't notice, the "chart" coreects itself in the very next line:

103.60 ---- 105.00 ----- 110.00 ----- 120.00

I included the other amounts for comparison sake. Some are not able to buy online, so their only options were to buy the locally available cards. If I remember correct, those are only offered in $10 and $20 denomintaions here. Haven't really been looking for them though. I added the $40 column for those that don't want to hassle with going in there EVERY 30 days and adding bits and pieces and rather just buy $40 chunks at a time.

The $5 line is there to prove that very point--that you can take the route of buying the least amount needed from cycle to cycle by mixing and matching (15, 15,15, 10, etc). It further illustrates how screwy the whole system is if you are trying to minimize your costs when you are unsure just how long you will continue to play FFXI.

The point still stands though, that you are overpaying via crysta UNLESS you do it for over 8 years, and ONLY if they allow Crysta to be redeemed for the actual fee (ie: 12.95 and not $13 a pop, in which case you technically are always ovverpaying with Crysta).

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm going to have to stop you right there, as there's something wrong with this picture. You made a mistake here and thus you may have made mistakes elsewhere; you only need $95 in crysta to cover $90.65.

And there are many times where you can back out and only have lost a couple nickels. HEAVEN FORBID.

Also, the Crysta amounts don't exist in a vaccum. Any intelligent person would see that , assuming you did use crysta for 8 years just to get every penny's worth of crysta used up, that if you put crysta in with $20 incriments, you could then add $10 and $5 to come out to the same $1295 that someone who felt the need to add crysta in $5 incriments did.

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The question I pose to you is why do you think SE is selling crysta in these specific increments? Have computers suddenly become incapable of processing specific amounts?

The monthly fee is 12.95/month. Where is the option to pay.... 12.95/month in crysta? Why is there no option to pay the exact amount on a website? It's a cash grab. A "few nickles" adds up to a ton of money spread across multiple accounts and I know it, SE knows it and anyone willing to grab a calculator sees it.

Ive said it before and ill say it again. On a website, SE should have zero problems processing a crysta payment of the exact 12.95 because all of this is computerized and they knew the monthly fee going into switching over payment options.

It is in bad faith to offer individuals a payment system where you must overpay in order to receive a service, even if said overpayment comes down to a few cents here or there. The agreement was 12.95/month and not one cent over.

What if I only offered SE $12.50/month? It's only a few cents off 12.95 right? My ass would be deactivated until I paid in full.

That being said, I understand if crysta were sold in round increments via gamecards in order to make it simplistic for buyers at a retail outlet.

10/20/25/50/100 dollar cards are a whole lot easier to swallow for the consumer than 12.95/25.90/38.85/51.80 especially if the individual buying the card has no idea what the actual cost of the service is because they aren't the person playing XI.

eh...Alhanelem probly just had a brain fart like I did--he/she is not usually so prone to seeing things in such a vacuum (unlike some posters).

We're all probly getting frustrated and worn out over the debate at this point and are gonna make little gaffs like that here and there...and the slow responses from SE don't do much for releasing the pressure valve.

Don't get me wrong, in contrast to things in the past, it is a vast improvemnt to their communication channels--but in this day and age with a dozen or more 24 hour news channels, twitter, and the like...everyone has been conditioned to getting faster responses then they are able to provide.

hehe... just realized I never replied to this part of Rosina's last misinformed post. And I just can't resist it....got that Boondocks intervention episode on my mind again:

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Consider this, you can't get refunded for mmo period, if you quit say after 7 years of paying for 3 characters. That is a good $1K+ you wasted. Also if you care so much for $1-$5 maybe mmo not 4 u.

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That money is not wasted. That is money paid for services you used in the past. You don't pay for your time AFTER you've played FFXI--you are PREPAYING. After this change, you will be contractually required to prepay for your next 30 day subscription window. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Let me state this again, seperately so it stands out, in the hopes you fully grasp this point so you can (hopefully) understand the importance of the issue at hand.

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After this change, you will be contractually required to prepay for your next 30 day subscription window.

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Now, just what does that mean? It means that you have to either have an active 30-day acces window in effect, or pay for a 30-day subscription to have access. Whether you use that time to play or not doesn't matter. You paid for it, were given that subscription. no refunds or exchanges as per the ToS. If you subscribe to a magazine, get that magazine, and never read it--you are not necesarrily entitled to a refund for the cost of that one issue of that magazine, or maybe not even any refund of your remaining subscription fee (depending on that particular contract). In this particular case, you have to pay in advance for a 30 day window of access, and are not entitled to any refund from SE as per the ToS. You cannot buy a partial, pro-rated window of access, nor can you buy more than a 30 day window--it is 30 days and 30 days only, purchasable only as a single unit for 30 days and 30 days only. It appears the system will be designed to only require and allow you to purchase a window when your current window is expiring (or possible there will be a window towards the end of the current window, like during the last 5 days they may process the next window, that is still unknown--but you will not be buying 2 30-day FFXI passes at once, effectively preventing you from having more than 60 days prepaid at any given point in time..possible even a lower cap).

Now....the cost for that 30 day window for your first character on the account is established as $12.95. Under your contract with SE, you are REQUIRED to pay them 12.95 for each 30 day window of access to the game. Thus, by extension, you can only pay for your FFXI in increments of $12.95 for that first character, in advance, for your pending 30 day window of access. Once that window is purchased for pending access, you CANNOT purchase another window until you have no pending future window of access. You can never purchase a window of access unless you have no pending window of access.

So... what does all that mean? You can only ever purchase one single future access window at any given time, you are contractually bound to purchase that window in advance before access is granted within that future window of access and have no right to a refund of that purchase, and the cost for that window has been established as $12.95 for your first character on an account. Thus, you are required, and only liable to pay SE $12.95 in advance for 30 days of future access, and restricted to only purchasing that one unit for $12.95.

So, you are required to purchase in advance for a set amount, are restricted to buying only one specific amount of future time to use at your deiscretion. Once purchased, the money(s) used for that purchase is forfeit in lieu of granting you access for 30 days. How much of that 30 day window you use is at your discretion. You purchased it, what you do with it is your wish--but it is only "wasted" if you don't use it.

Have you figured out where else all this is going yet?

With Crysta, you can only purchase it in $5 increments. Crysta is a product licensed through SE, and is thus only utlimately made available through SE's portal or an affiliate on SE's behalf. $12.95 is not divisible by $5 evenly, no matter what. Even if Crysta was redeemed at a 1:1 ratio, it would require $1295 worth of crysta to balance out equally between money(s) required and money(s) purchased. The user cannot purchase enough crysta in advance to make that balance ($100 limit). There is also the issue of Crysta expiration. SE can (at it's discretion) render all Crysta on an account within 1 year of inactivity, or even immediately under circumstances of abuse or other issues as determined in the ToS.

So, as it currently stands, if the user opts Crysta as a payment method for FFXI, it perpetually requires the user to spend more real life currency than is legally required of the user.

Now, in a normal environment when a user has multiple options for payment, this is less of an issue because the player has a choice in methods. They can opt for a differnt method of payment. The problem comes in when a user is suddenly, seemingly without justification, rendered no other option for payment of services. As in, they've been taking a credit card for 8 years, that instrument is still a qualified means of payment, but SE has arbitrarily rendered that instrument null and void on their own. Now that user is left with no other option but to pay more for the service with no justification for the change. Then, the issue comes into play where Crysta is also not made available to the user because of where they live. Effectively, SE just suddenly cut that user off from all access. Then the digital property rights debate comes into play. That user has spent 8 years alone or with other users participating in events and acquired and customized virtual property that is only obtainable through manual efforts on the part of the player (ie, they can't walk up to an NPC and buy thier AF gear and then upgrade it--they have to actively participate in content to obtain virtual rewards to exchange for virtual property, they can't legally give SE or any other entity real world money directly in exchange for that virtual property).

Which makes me question...is this a violation of some trade law somehwere?

for me the transfer to the SE account worked, i haven't had to select a billing method yet.
just selected crysta and this time billing method for crysta didn't pop up instantly, seems like my account won't be closed :D

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Originally Posted by Alukat

for me the transfer to the SE account worked, i haven't had to select a billing method yet.
just selected crysta and this time billing method for crysta didn't pop up instantly, seems like my account won't be closed :D

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If you selected Crysta, then you have umm..a very short time, based on where you live, to add Crysta to your account.

I would like to point out a super duper secret that SE doesn't want you to know about:
The trick to getting past billing issues is to use a PS2.

It doesn't have 3D-Secure verification, that's only on the PC. It's how I use my RBFCU mastercard which does not support it.

ClickAndBuy however has worked with all my credit cards for authorization without fail for FFXIV.

Part of the reason for the minimum amounts has to do with credit card fees charged by visa, and also probably trying to keep exact $s. I don't know, Microsoft does it, EA does it, Sony does it. If you want to buy $0.99 DLC from the PSN you have to buy $5.
The crysta system also allows dual FFXI/FFXIV Game Cards to be sold, which I'm sure is the main reason behind this change (in addition to security). They are likely going to sell 150 Crysta cards at gamestop, for example. It also opens the door to things like ... cash shops.

still.. there is the issue of the direct-pay by credit card being exteneded to only the JP.

Excluding everyone else specifically like that and then not addressing the issue publicly (still, no response from SE on THIS discrepancy it AT ALL) just makes it look kinda like a slight-of-hand tactic to generate extra revenue for SE in the long run.

And I'm not talking about the vague response we got basically saying...it's a work in progress... we are looking to improve the process. ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE ISSUE IN YOUR RESPONSE.

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Originally Posted by Eadieni

I would like to point out a super duper secret that SE doesn't want you to know about:
The trick to getting past billing issues is to use a PS2.

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http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...510c7e3b5c.jpg

Great, now SE is going to install 3D Secure on our f#@%ing PS2s. You just inconvenienced some of the playerbase who can't access 3DSecure on their CCs for playing on PS2, ya noob.