Relic weapons for all jobs.

Couldn't tell ya. I'm not big into FFXI lore etc, it probably has something to do with that though. Sorry I didn't commit the op to memory, if you asked why then carry on.

Mandau is a pretty decent deal better than Twashtar on Dancer, if I'm not mistaken (as it's extremely close on THF, and THF can still SA Rudra's while DNC can't). It's not "pointless". From a lore/work standpoint, it makes about as much sense as the addition of ToAU jobs to Sky gear did. It happened, it just took a long time and a lot of community pressure to do it.

Frankly, the Devs are significantly more concerned with designing and implementing new content than revising a bunch of old stuff, especially things they don't really see as broken. Are they actively preventing ToAU/WotG jobs from being on Relics? Doubtful. It's much more likely they've just never really thought it was an issue.

That said, do all of the relics really make that much sense on new jobs? Many of them were designed around the 1 job that could equip said weapon. Spharai, for example, has Enhances Counter IV on it while Puppetmaster doesn't have any sort of Counter trait at all. While it would probably be simple enough in theory to fix, I wouldn't be surprised if the spaghetti code for Spharai never took non-Mnks into account and temporarily broke Puppetmaster's Counter rate for a time (not that they'd complain).

Does this affect me? Not really. Do I care either way? Nah. Is it a horribly stupid idea with absolutely no basis that needs to be shot down on sight like a lot of others that pop up here? Honestly, I really don't think so. It's a fairly simple change, and question, that isn't really hurting anyone. Go figure.

I'm not a troll, so I love the abuse of the tag feature in this thread. Someone doesn't understand what trolling is.

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Couldn't tell ya. I'm not big into FFXI lore etc, it probably has something to do with that though. Sorry I didn't commit the op to memory, if you asked why then carry on.

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The lore reason not to make this change would be that the new jobs have no role in the Dynamis storyline. But to be fair, this can be countered by the fact they added gear for these jobs to dynamis- but If I'm not mistaken, SE originally planned to add this gear to some ToAU event, but decided to put it in dynamis because they didn't want to make the new event only applicable to the three new jobs.

The only reason Scholar and Dancer are not in the Dynamis storyline is simply the fact that they were not conceived and/or confirmed as part of the game at the time. As they fought in the Crystal War with everyone else, there really is no lore reason that they aren't a part of Dynamis.

Relic armor itself is essentially taking the ancient combat armor off of those corrupted soldiers, so the fact that WotG/ToAU armor drops in Dynamis at all is Ret-Con enough to show that all 20 jobs did participate in the Crystal War and got locked in the Dynamis realms.

What GG said, and also SCH and DNC didn't have anything to do with Balrahn either, yet they were added.

I always wanted say that. Make relic weapon or old equip (like sky equip and so) equip-able by some jobs like BLU, DNC, COR and so on. Would be fun equip Hecatomb set on DNC (I mean... even BRD can equip it...), maybe useless at 90, but lets say you want level DNC and you have Hecatomb pieces, they could help you maybe when you reach 75, until you find better. Same goes for some funny weapons, lets say, Mercurial Kris? I don't think is hard to add COR or SCH in the list of relic and enable them. Probably they just have to add a line string in the code? I don't know. But would be fun see DNC with Mandau XDD

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Well, being the official forum, that's what people come here to do. My only issue is with the attention grabbing manner in which such topics are posted. Sometimes it seems like everyone thinks their suggestion deserves SE's attention more than anyone else's.

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That's why they hired community reps to read the forums for them. SE wants ideas from the players, community reps sift through the crap to find reasonable suggestions and/or popular ideas which they then take back to the devs and see how feasible it is to implement. If your argument against this post is that it's trying too hard to get noticed, that would be as stupid as saying "I don't want to vote for ____ and you shouldn't vote for them either because he/she is trying too hard to get everyone's attention." That's what politicians do, they try to get noticed. Hate them for something else.

So why would giving relics to all jobs be a bad idea aside from the fact that the OP is obviously trying to garner illegal amounts of attention? I don't think it would upset the balance of the game, and apparantly neither do you. I don't think it would cost the dev team very much time at all to edit each of those jobs onto one weapon each. Relic weapons used to be THE ENDGAME. The last thing you would get to beat FFXI. I think it's unfair that those jobs are excluded from these once-prestigious items.

I am pretty sure mythics were not introduced until after WotG came out. If I remember correctly, it was one of the near last installments to ToAU content.

I could care less of whether or not the five more recent jobs get added onto relic, but it does make me wonder why add them to the joke weapons with the relic WSs...

As far as story goes... DNC and SCH were apart of the crystal war... Dynamis is suppose to represent the "What if that war never ended and the beastmen did have control over the cities?" So in theory it would still make sense to add them to weapons more than it would PUP, BLU or COR considering theyre jobs from a continent that took no part in that war.

If SE decides to do it great, if not... oh well.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Well, being the official forum, that's what people come here to do. My only issue is with the attention grabbing manner in which such topics are posted. Sometimes it seems like everyone thinks their suggestion deserves SE's attention more than anyone else's.

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I don't agree with you, so you must be attention grabbing!

This kind of thought process has always amused me.

Personally, I'm in huge favour of this. I Really don't see a reason why DNC can't be using Mandau.

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It was knuckles, actually. my mistake. Regardless, empyrean HTH > relic HTH. We don't need relic.

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It shouldn't really matter. IF anything, Relics should've been stronger than Empyrean in the first place. SE said somewhere that they are going to balance it. Also, it should be all about choice.

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That's one of the most illogical conclusions I've ever heard.

Pray tell, what makes relic HTH better than empyrean HTH?

The wepaon skill sure doesn't. The relic "aftermath" sure doesn't.

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The counter. The Relic H2H have insane amount of counter, especially in it's current final form. I've watched a MNK with spharai countering almost nonstop with that on. It was a pretty amazing sight, especially against 20 mobs.

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Which of the ToAU/wotg jobs is so sorely lacking in other good weapon options that they absolutely need relic weapon access?

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At the time, and for the longest time, the mythic is so difficult to get that it's almost not even worth getting, unless you're working on Yagrush, Nirvana, Burtgang, and Ryunohige, which I believe are the more popular mythic weapons in the game. The mage mythic weapons do hold advantage over Relics (And even Empyreans!) because they are actually USEFUL for the mages.

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My point? there were plenty of items that jobs were not added to. SE obviously made a concious deciison whether to include or not include a job on an item. It's not like it was random or something.

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And the point is? This is what the forums are for. To voice our request to change that, or at least request an explanation of why they changed it. For the longest time, until the relics AF came out, DNC barely had any useful gears to begin with, which was pretty silly to begin with. DNC couldn't requip homam, they couldn't requip hecatomb, they couldn't equip salvage gears. They had only very few choices to equip, Same with SCH. I understand right now it's a pretty moot argument, but back then, it was one of the issues that DNC had to deal with, other than the fact that most people thought DNC was a useless job.

As for the "It doesn't fit the lore" I call bollocks. While I understand the argument with BLU, PUP, and COR taking no part in the Crystal war, since those jobs originated in the Aht Urghan empire. DNC and SCH were heavily involved in the crystal war, and therefore, makes sense to be in Dynamis. In fact, one of the famous well known NPC, Schultz, whom is a Scholar, was heavily involved in Crystal War, which further proves the reason why these jobs should be able to use the relic weapons.

Also, for the argument regarding "They have the Mythic and the Empyrean". My response? So What?

As I said earlier, the Mythic weapons are extremely difficult and time consuming to get. Look at the vana'diel census, notice that only 5 people actually completed Terpsichore, the DNC mythic? Maybe the next update might actually change that, but as it stands, and have stood ever since the beginning, it was not even worth the trouble of doing. If you ask me, many of the mythic weapons need a huge overhaul to actually justify the incredible effort to get them in the first place, but that's another thread for this.

As for the empyrean? Great. Nearly everyone has them. It's basically the 'salvage gear' of 2011. It is a fairly strong piece of gear, and shows that you are the best, and yet thousands have them. It's a minor achievement compared to completing a relic. If you ask me, completing an empyrean relic is as much of an achievement as completing a salvage set (Ares, Skadi, etc), only that it is actually easier to get than finishing salvage set at the time (and by time, I mean two or more years ago, compared to today)

Even though most empyrean weapons beat relic weapons, Obtaining Relic weapons (let alone Mythic) shows a huge achievement. Maybe not as big as it used to be (given the new Dynamis), but still, it is a pretty significant achievement. So the question is: Why shouldn't BLU, COR, PUP, DNC, SCH be allowed to use the relic weapons, if all 20 jobs have access to empyreans? Mythic is a different issue because there is one for each job, and are designed to enhance that specific job. Relics, on the other hand is not.

People say that BLU only uses Scimitar weapon? So? BLU Can use Almace, and it's most certainly not a scimitar weapon type.

People say that DNC don't even use the dagger type as Mandau? In fact, they do. Heart Snatcher says hi, very similar design, and yet DNC can use it.

People say PUP shouldn't be able to use Spharai because of the counter? Well why the hell not? I'm sure it'd be a nice benefit to them.

And why shouldn't COR be able to use Annihilator, when they have Armageddon that's similar in design (only more cooler looking)

SCH though, well, I don't think any SCH would really care about the staff >.>, so I'm not gonna say anything there.

Again, I strongly support this idea, and if SE would do this. Fantastic! Another reason to continue working on Mandau (I love my DNC as much as I love my THF). If ,for some reason SE chose not to do this, I'd like to hear an explanation why. I could understand this would create some issue (Especially for Spharai on Pup since pup don't have any counter trait far as I know), but I really would like to see this happen!