Jupiter's staff question

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

This so much.

Not to mention Catsby thinks he/she is the most trustful person in the world. Please tell me, if i said that BRD debuffs also factored in INT as MACC and I had revealed that I had performed thousands of samples of tests to prove my hypothesis, but failed to save them, would you really find that credible? After all we've ever known about BRD songs only being influenced by CHR and skill+ that I bring up a ridiculous claim that BRD MACC is determined by two stats and when asked to present my information my response is basically, "NO U." That's what you're doing now. You've lost (any) credibility you had when you decided to act like a child.

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Nope. The OP asked if jupiter/thunder staff increased ranged crit rate. Some other posters and myself replied saying it wouldn't. I went a bit further to say if any did it would be wind staff because of the AGI. Some others didn't understand so I briefly explained that months ago I tested base parameters to find the one that boosts ranged crit (since DEX clearly doesn't). Now the thread is about how to fake science to impress people on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Swords

Would you sacrifice all your R.Atk/R.Acc/AGI mod gear and kill your damage output just to push out an extra few% on your critical hit rate through DEX?

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Yes, because I understand how critical hits relate to DEX (melee), and you apparantly don't. Adding Dex to your gear set did very little untill you reached a certain value. After that value it shoots up at about 1Dex=1% Crit hit. For example, on Colibri at 75, that sweet spot where 1dex=1%crit was at 107 I believe. Crit rate would cap at 117 Dex. Say you had 77 base dex at 75. You would have a (floored+4% merits) crit rate of 9%. Adding 40 Dex to your set would only raise your crit rate by 5% to 14% total. Adding another 10 dex on top of that would increase your crit rate by 10%, to the cap of 24%.

This, for example, is why people used Byakko's Haiadate for Raging Rush over even things like Hachiryu Haiadate depending on the mob. It wasn't for the accuracy, it was because with their normal WS gear they would be hovering around 105-110 dex, and haiadate's 15DEX would give a significant boost to their criritcal hit rate and thus weaponskill damage.

So yes, if you were near that sweet spot where 1dex=1%crit, then yes, I would definitely concider swapping arr/att/str/wsc mods for dex. The same applies to ranged attacks. And this is why it's important. We should naturally have a decent amount of AGI in our WS set, similar to how most melee WS sets tend to have a decent amount of dex, even though they have geared for STR. If AGI affects crit rate for ranged attacks, then, similar to how byakko's haiadate often beat out hachiryu haiadate (at capped acc) on raging rush, it's likely high AGI pieces like empyrean feet will beat out other ratk/racc/etc pieces like relic feet.

If Dead Aim is ever changed to apply to ranged weaponskills then the boost from that increased hit rate will be even more significant, and if you are getting close to that AGI sweet spot, AGI gear should crap all over acc/att/str/wsc mod pieces. If Dex affects our crit rate, then those high-agi pieces like empyrean feet and skote become pretty worthless for crit WSs.

I hope I explained that clearly enough.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

Nope. The OP asked if jupiter/thunder staff increased ranged crit rate. Some other posters and myself replied saying it wouldn't. I went a bit further to say if any did it would be wind staff because of the AGI. Some others didn't understand so I briefly explained that months ago I tested base parameters to find the one that boosts ranged crit (since DEX clearly doesn't). Now the thread is about how to fake science to impress people on the internet.

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Here, I'll fill in the blanks for you.
1. OP asked if the Crit Rate+ applied only to the staff.
2. A few people confirmed it did.
3. You confirmed it did, but also added by your own weird sense of logic and missing test results stated that AGI governs ranged crit rate.
4. I said it didn't.
5. You replied again saying it did, but did not know how much.
6. I gave some examples of why people believed their crit rate was lower.
7. People tried to reinforce their opinion with low sample sizes. (One poster was even wearing GH, an AGI+ Superior atma and was complaining about his low crit hit rate lol)
8. You got all mayad and butthurt when I didn't take your word and refused to show the "10 thousand arrow" sample you so vigorously worked on but forgot to save.
9. Noodles drops in and questions your credibility when you can't even save your tests.
10. owait ranged crit% is not important anymore go awayz!!!

Noodles I'm entirely familiar with the concepts and formulas of DEX, I do however know that outside of a few hard to come by pieces of gear, RNG does not get access to excessive amounts of high DEX gear that supports ranged attacks like they do with AGI. If you don't have access to pieces like Byakkos Haidate, Hahiryu Kote, Kirin's Osode and/or Loki's Kaftan you would have to give up many more gearslots to hit the "Sweet Spot" and cap your ranged crit rate, and realistically the average player probably only has Loki's or a KO.

Keeping that in mind, what good would it do you, to go all out with DEX gear to cap your ranged critical hit rate if your normal ranged damage falls significantly by say 1/3 or more. The whole concept of using DEX as a modifier for ranged critical hits is extremely double-edged for RNG, unlike normal melee classes. Hence why I said it makes much more sense to believe AGI affects ranged critical hit rate instead of DEX, especially where 90% of RNG and ranged gear has been built around AGI.

I hope that clarifies what I've been trying to convey.

You state it would make more sense, and be more useful if AGI affected ranged critical hits instead of DEX. As I pointed, and you confirm above, crit builds would be more viable with AGI as the crit modifier. This we both agree on.

Yet you state finding out which stat affects critical hit rate as not very important. It is pretty damn important. If it's with DEX, then as you mention without key items like loki's/osode, byakkos and hachiryu, it would be very difficult to work and probably not very worthwhile. If the modifier is AGI, then it opens up more options as the AGI target for the critical sweet spot would be easier to reach, and many pieces we thought useless would become the best pieces for damage under certain conditions. On the other hand if it is DEX, then DEX builds would be key to high damage Jishnu's, as it both increases crit rate and damage through the 60% WSC. If it's AGI, then you would have to weigh up AGI (for crit rate) and DEX for damage, in a similar way to comparing Byakkos (for crit) or hachiryu (for str) for melee WSs.

Learning which stat increases ranged attack critical hit rate is important, and should play a large factor in gearing your WS set if you use Jishnu's Radiance.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Here, I'll fill in the blanks for you.
8. You got all mayad and butthurt when I didn't take your word and refused to show the "10 thousand arrow" sample you so vigorously worked on but forgot to save.
9. Noodles drops in and questions your credibility when you can't even save your tests.
10. owait ranged crit% is not important anymore go awayz!!!

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I wasn't even mad and it's pretty hard to show off something you tossed months ago.
Credibility on an online forum for a MMORPG? really now.
Crit rate isn't that important of a topic since 1) RNG has been broken for years now and crit is only one of many problems it has. 2) As swords pointed out AGI is in no short supply for RNG. It's on nearly every piece of gear a ranger would wear and further validates the theory. 3) In the other thread people are suggesting the crit enhancement doesn't work on weaponskills.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

You state it would make more sense, and be more useful if AGI affected ranged critical hits instead of DEX. As I pointed, and you confirm above, crit builds would be more viable with AGI as the crit modifier. This we both agree on.

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The whole reason I've been debating the entire thing to begin with, is because there is nothing to figure out. AGI has always been the determining factor for just about everything related to ranged attacks including the critical hit rate. Anything I've posted previously pushes how DEX and Ranged attacks just don't mix like it does with close ranged melee. Yet you've been seemingly adamant about even trying to test this out for yourself, and would rather hold onto the possibility that DEX is still a determining factor.

Like I stated in a previous post, SE has been pushing the critical hit damage gear for RNG ever since Abyssea came out, there should be no argument between us there. With that in mind, SE would have given RNG alot more DEX gear instead of drowning us in AGI gear, IF DEX really was the stat for ranged crits.

And with all that AGI gear in mind, it shouldn't even be a challenge to cap your ranged crit. rate in or out of Abyssea.

Kind of like how there are tons of CHR gear for DNC? Does that mean CHR affects their crit rate? No, It's used as a mod for a JA. Same goes for AGI. AGI is a mod for nearly every WS available to RNG, it doesn't have to be more than that. You guys are merely assuming since a lot of RNG gear has AGI it must be the stat that does everything for RNG without having any proof.

And I bring up credibility because you want people to believe you when you can't even cough up some evidence to support your claims and then freak out when people don't take you seriously.

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Originally Posted by Swords

And with all that AGI gear in mind, it shouldn't even be a challenge to cap your ranged crit. rate in or out of Abyssea.

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What was the number of DEX over target AGI for capping crit rate? Something like +50 if I remember correctly. I wonder if that rule applies to ranged crits.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Kind of like how there are tons of CHR gear for DNC? Does that mean CHR affects their crit rate? No, It's used as a mod for a JA. Same goes for AGI. AGI is a mod for nearly every WS available to RNG, it doesn't have to be more than that. You guys are merely assuming since a lot of RNG gear has AGI it must be the stat that does everything for RNG without having any proof.

And I bring up credibility because you want people to believe you when you can't even cough up some evidence to support your claims and then freak out when people don't take you seriously.

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That's not a good enough analogy because crit rate isn't by job. Melee strikes from a dancer are similarly to those by a warrior. Also, there's info out there suggesting AGI modifies ranged accuracy in the same fashion that DEX modifies melee accuracy.

I don't want people to believe me. I only brought up what I noticed during my own testing and encouraged others to test further since I really don't care to do so myself. I also didn't "freak out".