If you make the items yourself, you are still paying full price for them. You didn't save 400k by making your own ibuki's, you still spent 400k gil when you used them instead of selling them.
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06-07-2014, 03:36 PMLouispv
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06-07-2014, 04:44 PMWoW
^^I farm the mats, they are fairly common. I have a steady source of income, hence spending 170k on 12 jugs is nothing (But I make them). Shoot, magma steaks were like what...70k on asura? Anyone with dyna and Salvage access can make a ton of gil. I could log on right now and make near one mill in 45ish minutes. Losing a pet is a non-issue to me, they are consumables after all. The efficacy of the pets bothers me, not the price. If we had a jug that could dish out 3k ready moves on bosses nobody would complain because it is now the standard, akin to reforged gear mats, etc. However, if they did complain those individuals would have to get over it if they wanted to participate in endgame content.
Nobody like paying for things; i surely don't, but yea, 400k hurts which is why I make my own. When I started bst, jugs were bothersome to get a hold of; i wanted a specific jug, but could not catch it on ah (HQ beetle), hence I decided to end all of this crap and lvled woodworking and cooking so I could be self-efficient; now I make the prices^^ -
06-07-2014, 08:47 PMSNKWhy would I sell them? I like having access to nice jugs and not paying a dime for them. God I hate to sound arrogant about this but 400k is piss in the wind to me. This game literally throws money at you. Everytime I read someone complaining they can't make any money in FFXI isn't trying hard enough. Salvage, Dynamis, Walk of Echos, Limbus, & Meebles are just a few off the top of my head where you don't need a lot of time to go out and make some gil to buy the gear you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louispv
The complaints about BST being so costly just makes me roll my eyes because it really isn't that much at all when you can literally farm your own jug mats if you take the time and do it. During the times where I have some freetime from my usual money making ventures, I usually just sit and craft up a lot of jugs with around 10 to 20 stacks of each, send them to my mule and keep 1 stack of each on my main character. I keep track of what I use the most and plan ahead where I need to go to gather up materials to craft some more at a later day. I really hate using the AH for anything BST related unless I'm in a hurry to do something.
I think as a player Louis, you like BST but maybe you don't have enough freetime or incentive to get out there and farm gil. I don't know tho. I'm not you and you're not me so that's all there is to it.
Like I said in your previous post, I agree with some of your points but some of them however don't have anything to do with myself since I've had access to some end game content on BST where people know I don't bring myself halfassed to anything I get to be a part of on that job. -
06-08-2014, 10:58 AMWoW
Serious question, what is the point of bst affinity? is bst the only job SE restricts to a level cap? Why cap jugs? What is the point of this? Why not allow bst to use any crappy jug pet they want? I don't get it. Some pets are just plain better than others, ask those hardcore monstrosity ppl whom point out the sucky and the strong monsters. It is like we are being forced to use these crappy new jugs (besides Ibuki whom has its' uses). I would like to use a 119 version of Nursey Nazuna, Crude Rahpie, and Faithfulfalcorr. I never understood the notion of restricting certain pets, why? Why should we be penalized for using NN over the crappy boar whom caps higher? (NN is a better dd and tank imo, when she was un-capped that is).
This is what I am referring to regarding flaws within the job. To make matters worse, our merits and 119 hand armor is predicated on this flawed pet lvl cap system, hence there is no turning back now. Also, SE does not release every pet family when new jugs are released (As Louis pointed out), this makes no sense; what if i wanted to use a lizard for killer instinct? Should I be penalized for this (Jug cap)?
Iirc, SE may release a hq version of droopy Dortwin; well, may I propose a hq version of other capped pets? I do not see the jug cap being lifted due to the need of a bst merit/armor re-haul. However, I would love to use NN, Raphie, or falcorr at lvl119^^Rage and lambchop was so nice^^ -
06-08-2014, 06:14 PMMefuki
It seems to be the same logic SE is currently applying to Blue Magic. Instead of updating and adjusting older spells to be useful, thereby increasing strategy and battle depth, they just say, "Oh, we'll add more" and then proceed to give us only a couple of useful spells with very limited monster correlation.
WS are looking to get wide-scale adustments to get away from everyone using the same WS over and over. I'm hoping that MAYBE this is a first step away from the bizarre and shallow mentality of, "You should only have one or two useful things at any given level." -
06-09-2014, 04:37 AMWoW
Gonna give them the benefit of the doubt; perhaps the July version update will address bst and blu spell/jug/restrictions respectively. Hopefully they remove the unnecessary restrictions from both jobs.
Not knocking SE or anything, but how hard can it be to give blu the most beneficial spells and bst the most beneficial jugs? How about removing the jug cap or doing something about blu point/slots? I do not play blu, but from what I am hearing, that may be the case. These two jobs appear to be predicated on the ecosystem. There are extremely powerful monsters with useful abilities in this ecosystem, how about....idk......giving us the most beneficial moves and jugs? Yea...crazy idea...i know....Why should we get the most powerful or useful monsters moves/jugs? I mean, Rng, Mnk, Sam, and War get powerful abilities, but why should we? Right?
I will leave this thread and never complain about bst again if they give us an clear answer as to why bst jugs are capped and why the most powerful jugs have been skipped over ,but they allow un-charmable monsters to become jugs. I just want to know; it is puzzling to me..... 12 years...no scorp or Opo-opo (Whom was part of the story line), both of these monsters are charmable, but were skipped over for weaker monsters and some of which, are un-charmable. It is like they are going out of their way to neglect the the strongest pets; they will even repeat monsters to avoid releasing them. 3 tigers, 4 rabbits, 4 crabs, and 5 mandys. 0 scorpions, 0 Opo-ops. To make matters worse, they just change the colors of the repeats like we are pre-schoolers and will be captivated by the new pretty colors. SE, will a Opo-opo and scorpion jug ever see the light of day? Can we have HQ 119 old jugs? Can run wild's timer be shorten? How about DW1? most bst use two axes for beneficial stat purposes. -
06-09-2014, 07:14 AMLouispvThen why did you bring it up? You're the one complaining that RNG costs so much, when everything you said applies equally to them. Especially since RNG is free. One delve run gives you all the plasm you will ever need for every piece of ammo you'll use for the rest of your life. If a Ranger shoots 99 shots, they only lose 900 plasm worth of bullets because they only actually lost 3 bullets. You get more than that from the random yggrette shards that drop while you're walking around.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNK
And you don't seem to understand currency. If you have 300k worth of jugs, you spent 300k on them. You didn't save a single penny by making them, they're worth 300k and when you use them 300k worth of jugs are gone. Whereas the RNG lost next to nothing. -
06-09-2014, 02:52 PMSNKSomeone else brought it up 1st.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louispv
RNG isn't free as you'd think. Like I said...Quote:
You're the one complaining that RNG costs so much, when everything you said applies equally to them. Especially since RNG is free.
@ The Bolded.Quote:
Let me rephrase it differently since shooting money probably isn't the way I should have worded it. To be a RNG or any job that constantly gets invited to AAs you have to at "least" spend 150 million gil or more to do those events on anything above normal. Yes I'm talking about relics and let's be honest, That's what most people want and will only invite to anything that just is a pain in the ass to do with lower teir gear.
Let me repeat it again.Quote:
One delve run gives you all the plasm you will ever need for every piece of ammo you'll use for the rest of your life. If a Ranger shoots 99 shots, they only lose 900 plasm worth of bullets because they only actually lost 3 bullets. You get more than that from the random yggrette shards that drop while you're walking around.
You keep wanting to harp on the same point when I already corrected myself already on this.Quote:
Let me rephrase it differently since shooting money probably isn't the way I should have worded it. To be a RNG or any job that constantly gets invited to AAs you have to at "least" spend 150 million gil or more to do those events on anything above normal.
You're not really making any sort of logical arguement here Louis. I'll try and break it down for you.Quote:
And you don't seem to understand currency. If you have 300k worth of jugs, you spent 300k on them. You didn't save a single penny by making them, they're worth 300k and when you use them 300k worth of jugs are gone. Whereas the RNG lost next to nothing.
1) I go out and farm my materials which saves me from having to pay someone else for them.
2) I craft my jugs for myself for my own use where I once again am not paying someone to make them.
3) I have other ways of making money so as with any job, it has it's up and downs. Sitting there and telling me I'm using 300k when in reality I'm not spending any money out of pocket isn't in anyway logical.
You can sit there and hammer it to any angle you want but the fact of the matter is I'm not paying anything for these jugs.
Are they worth 300k? To some lazyass maybe. To me they're worth nothing because I don't need to pay someone else when I can go do it myself. I know you're either trying to start some arguement or maybe you're just looking to troll someone. I don't know either way. BST isn't as exspensive as some people make it out to be. In the long run all jobs cost money to maintain and BST by far isn't the most exspensive.
Next I'm pretty sure you're going to tell me that my Guttler is 150 million gil that I blew also even tho I didn't spend a dime on it. <_> -
06-10-2014, 08:16 AMLouispv
Apparently basic mathematics don't exist in your world. If you farmed 150 million gil worth of currency, and you used it on a guttler, the guttler cost you 150 million gil, it wasn't free. You should know this, since you yourself said you do dynamis for money, from selling the currency. How does doing dynamis and selling currency make you money, but doing dynamis and spending the currency on a guttler not cost you money? Because you didn't turn the currency into gil, first?
If I have $100, I have $100. If I have $100 worth of gold nuggets, I have $100. If I take my $100 worth of gold nuggets and throw them into a volcano because I enjoying seeing the lava splash, I spent $100 dollars on that, I lost $100. Just because I didn't throw $100 in paper money into the damned volcano doesn't mean I didn't lose $100.
This is especially stupid, since in the same damned post, you claim your Relic axe was free, but a RNG's relic gun costs 150 million. These are mutually exclusive statements, one or both, by definition is wrong, and you are making both at the same time. The fact that RNG is the job that LEAST needs a relic to do content over Normal just compounds it. -
06-10-2014, 11:00 AMWoW
Honestly, I could deal with dishing out money for items. However, there is nothing I can do about flawed mechanics. You can help how much money you make/buying jugs; you cannot transform a flawed pet system, unless you are a producer. I will take an expensive/solid pet anyday over easily accessible, cheap, restricted sub-par jug. That is just me tho.
Lets say that these jugs were completely free; wow.....bst is still on the sidelines...what did that solve? Jugs are basically free to me, it is not that special let me tell you. I face the same restriction you do; i just have more access to the restrictions. Yippeee?
Despite being a negative nancy; bst is a solid jug (From each family) and run wild cool down (6 minutes?) from being a complete job. Bst is fine, the master that is. This job has access to powerful gear sets, as well as a plethora of pet enchanting gear. We can do our part as a serviceable dd as opposed to a whining charity case, but SE must help us; meet us half way. It is only so much we can do as a player.
As it pertains to bst being overpowered, honestly, who isn't overpowered on lower lvl content, salvage, besieged, nyzul, etc? I have seen dd do damn near 10k ws on old content; I doubt any pet, even a scorpion could break 5k consistently on older content, let alone 10k (Unless you are doing reeeeeally old crap, like dyna, but good luck farming one-shotting everything). Hedjedjet could not even one-shot my pet pre-delve with its' more potent version of death scissors and pets have what, 5kish hp pre-item lvl? The argument about pets stream rolling dated content is not valid because every dd can put out insane damage on old content lol. There is a reason those dd get invited to hard content; imagine them on weaker content. Enough of the excuses folks. Ppl, including myself, thought that pet food would overpower pets; no quite, far from it.
That rabbit does 4-6k ws on besieged mobs, my ruinators hover around high 4,000s-7,000. Take into account that bst swing somewhat slow, the pet is restricted to a tp move timer (The good moves are usually 3 charges 2 minutes 30 seconds), and a lack of JAs. A bst with a dd pet WILL NOT be broken, far from it. If anything, it will allow us to be on par with top tier dds on dated crap and perhaps close the gap on harder battles; but jug pet strengths drops dramatically on difficult content. For instance, ibuki's molted plumage occasionally drops to triple digits on normal AAs.
Remember the abyssea days? Falcorr would triple attack, Fantod ,crit mobs frequently with the right atmas; doing damn near 2k damage on bosses per hit (Fantod), but bst was still shunned from abyssea, hmmmm. Perhaps dd pets and steamrolling old crap is not as broken as ppl think. Abyssea was the $hit back then, despite our powerful pets; other dd scaled as well, hence the steamrolling old crap argument is not valid. Other dds get stronger on weak crap also^^
Bst has no dd enchanting JAs outside of killer instinct which does not work in AR2 (The salvage I farm, unless you count the weak mobs that unlock crap). Also, other dds (PT) benefit from that buff which allows them to stay a step ahead of the master. Take a look at War, Sam, Mnk, and Rng JAs/abilities....yea. In a way, bst's JAs are its pets; they act as an added source of damage to compensate for our lack of offensive JAs. Sure you could sub War, but that will result in the lost of a wicked axe.
Even if they do not uncap the jugs or add a scorp/opo, SE could release HQ old jugs whom caps at 128 like herald henry; this would allow the jugs to attain higher acc by allowing them to scale higher than the player, whom will still be much stronger due to REM and other gear. If bst has to use merits to lvl pets, our jugs should attain a higher lvl than other pet jobs imo. They do not even have to release new jugs; just hq a several older ones and add few non-broken abilities. Personally, I would prefer if they took a break from releasing new jugs and just focus on strengthening the jugs we already have, by hq. Just my opinion. The move removal is an issue, this needs to addressed before releasing new half-powered jugs.
HQ pets:
Droopy Dortwin: Foot Kick, Dust Cloud, Whirl Claws, Wild Carrot, Wild Ginger.
Faithful Falcorr: Back heel, Fantod, Choke Breathe, Nihility Song, Hoof Volley
Amigo Sabotender: Needle Shot, Photosynthesis, 1k needles, 2k needles, and 4k needles (For all you old content ppl, this would be on the crappy ready timer and would do 4k on old crap; too bad other pets can do 4k ws on old crap aswell XD).
Gooey Gerald: Purulent Ooze, Fuscous Ooze, Corrosive Ooze, and Mucilaginous Ooze.
Blood Claw Shasra : Frenzied Rage, Pounce, Charged Whisker, Chaotic Eye, Blaster.
Scissorleg Xerin: Nature's Meditation, Sanguinary Slash, Sensilla Blades, Tegmina Buffet.
Crude Rahpie: Head Butt, Tortoise Stomp, Harden Shell, Earth Breathe, Aqua Breathe, Testudo Tremor.
I have no idea why these moves were removed from the jugs. One of the jugs have berserk, hence the absence of frenzied rage and nature's mediation was head scratching. Gooey could use HP down, hence the removal of Sanguinary Slash was head scratching. The notion that only certain pets should be able to use certain moves is flawed, because of the monster ecosystem. just allow pets to do the moves they were suppose to.
I am so tired of them releasing pretty/cool looking pets whom are weaker than our capped pets. I do not care about aesthetics, only efficacy. The boar and the pink bird are the coolest looking mobs in the game, no doubt, but I would prefer a un-gimped version of our old jugs. The non-broken moves you removed from them makes no sense.
Another thing, can you stop removing beneficial non-broken abilities from our jugs? Ready moves are restricted to a timer, hence no pet can use any particularly useful/strong move in rapid succession; 2 minutes and 30 seconds max. Sure you could use unleash and dish out nice damage in besieged; Yea, Fantod > 20k plus backheels are fun, but noone cares sadly; try that on content that gets you beneficial gear/armor. The above ready move list contains beneficial moves that will not break the game. Iirc, the broken moves are petrify, however, good luck landing petrify on a delve boss XD.The only broken moves that I recall are dependant on a enemies hp and none of the pets I mentioned have such moves. Giving our pets the beneficial moves they should have had will help us out immensely.
Edit: When you sit back and really examine our jugs, they are not that bad at all; SE makes them bad. Capped jugs, run wild's ridiculous timer, and ability removal (Srry about calling SE out, but it is their doing).