On Red Mage melee...

You really don't like reading long posts, do ya cid?

Being verbose when brevity would be better irritates me, yes. What was your point?

Seems more like you don't like reading reasons backing up claims, I had more than one.

1. Taking you at your personal experiences isn't any better then citing mules.

2. Regardless of it being mules, chain-casting isn't a constant (cited a non-mule example) as sated previously.

3. Conversations in the thread need to tone down to contain less hyperbole.

4. (New topic: ) Multiple Red Mages during an event tends to noticeably cut down on time Spent casting for all RDM's participating.

5. There does not seem to be enough utility for RDM's to take the front lines on Voidwatch mobs.

Chain casting is not a constant.

































.... But it should be. Suboptimal Red Mages will always exist. If you want to use the lowest common denominator as an example, go ahead. Do they have the time to melee? Sure. Should they be using that time to cast? Yes. Will they? Probably not.

I chain-cast at all times on Red Mage. If I'm not casting, I'm repositioning and then casting. Or I'm pulling then casting. Or I'm kiting then casting. Or I'm AFK, then casting. But mainly I'm just casting. If have time to idle, you have time to find more things to cast.

.... Oh god, Pchan was right.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Note: Neither of these RDMs are mules, nor are they chaincasting the entire fight.

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Why do people who record this kind of thing always have the same taste in music as a seventeen year-old, middle-class, white girl?

I've found casting load to be either boom or bust on any job that I've ever played in a support role. Even within one fight, things can change if stuff goes from "smooth" to "just past awful". I just consider the huge variance as something that comes along with the support role, and although this is entirely personal taste, I like the changes of pace that occur.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Or I'm AFK, then casting.

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My equipment set for leaving my character in a safe spot while I wander into my kitchen to make an over-easy egg and arugula sandwich on toast is suspect, I think. What do you currently use?

Also, P-chan is never right! You can use an idle set while pulling or repositioning or kiting, right?! I must hold out hope in my heart that P-chan is never right, because holy ducks, he has an awful attitude about everything and everyone and everywhere forever.

Depends on what I'm fighting and how much I care. Generally I'll just sit in PDT, since it's highly unlikely I'd be fighting trash while on Red Mage anyways. If I'm fighting something magic-heavy, I'll put on MDT. If I somehow end up on Red Mage for trash mobs, I'll just idle in full Refresh/MP and burn off the excess in free low potency spells when I get back. I can make ffxiah sets if you want specific examples.

I still have Idle sets, I just use them more for running between places and AFK'ing than actual combat. And yeah, I'll idle during kiting and repositioning.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

4. (New topic: ) Multiple Red Mages during an event tends to noticeably cut down on time Spent casting for all RDM's participating.

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I had at least two other Red Mages in the alliance by the end of the night and my casting load didn't really change, it just meant I wasn't solely responsible for keeping every enfeeble up.

Shit's situational, as usual.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Depends on what I'm fighting and how much I care. Generally I'll just sit in PDT, since it's highly unlikely I'd be fighting trash while on Red Mage anyways. If I'm fighting something magic-heavy, I'll put on MDT. If I somehow end up on Red Mage for trash mobs, I'll just idle in full Refresh/MP and burn off the excess in free low potency spells when I get back. I can make ffxiah sets if you want specific examples.

I still have Idle sets, I just use them more for running between places and AFK'ing than actual combat. And yeah, I'll idle during kiting and repositioning.

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No need to go to that much trouble, but thanks for the offer. I was really just joking about ideal equipment to wear while AFK and the horrifying concept of P-chan being right.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

I had at least two other Red Mages in the alliance by the end of the night and my casting load didn't really change, it just meant I wasn't solely responsible for keeping every enfeeble up.

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You did, however, draw the shortest straw amongst the Red Mages and end up with one depressing merit in Blind II in case that was a proc. Oh, Voidwatch...

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Chain casting is not a constant.

.... But it should be.

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I really disagree.

This isn't your typical MMO in which the best thing you can do is spam your cooldowns every time their up. Timing is, and possibly should be even more important than it is currently.

As I said before, being available to stun is a good reason to have idle time, and not to mention what idling in idle gear. Waiting for specific combinations to align on your cooldowns, skillchaining, bursting, procing. They all make being able to gauge your timing more worthwhile, to various degrees. That kinda got lost in the Zerg Mentality of ToAU but it at least seems to be making a comeback, and rightfully so as they were fun mechanics to be had (so long as they didn't horrendously limit job viability.)

I really do hope that SE makes coordinating with your team better as the game progresses, as it seems to become more and more of a lost art in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

You did, however, draw the shortest straw amongst the Red Mages and end up with one depressing merit in Blind II in case that was a proc. Oh, Voidwatch...

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It's news to me. *shrug*

What you tell me that my DPS isn't limited by a global cooldown and cycling all my timers!!! say it isn't soo, I was just getting to love my ret pally...

Maybe if you were one only two stunners or less, otherwise if there was several stunners I've usually had an order set up, in which case you didn't have to worry too much until it was your turn/everyone else fell asleep. This was pre abyssea obv.

I haven't seen a SC that wasn't a self SC or accidental since... 2006?

I miss skillchains.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Maybe if you were one only two stunners or less, otherwise if there was several stunners I've usually had an order set up, in which case you didn't have to worry too much until it was your turn/everyone else fell asleep. This was pre abyssea obv.

I haven't seen a SC that wasn't a self SC or accidental since... 2006?

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Stun "orders" are horribly inefficient, they rely on the same mechanics that SC's rely on, people consistently paying attention and no miscommunication happening. It's also based on when you needed stuns at a consistent rate to slow a NM down, not shut down a TP moves or two. I've since found a ~MUCH~ better way to handle stuns. One primary stunner and one to two backup stunners is all you typically need. I'm as primary on RDM/DRK, I have a list of one or two TP moves that need stunned at all costs (Ballistic Kick, Gates of Hades, Archeon Flame, ect..). I stay locked onto the target with my finger above the stun macro, doing absolutely nothing else. When the monster use's the move I hit stun and stun it, as I've been anticipating the move the entire time I rarely miss it. Now I call out on vent my recast timer "stun down 30s" and name the backup person I need to take over. That person then drops everything their doing and concentrates on stunning to the exclusion of all else. During this time I'll cast buffs / replace stoneskin if needed, make sure Dia III / Slow II is on the NM and whatever until my stun timer is ready. Once it's up I'll announce stuns up and whomever was covering it then continues whatever they were doing. If they had to stun and my timer was still down, then the second backup's name is called and they drop everything to cover whatever time is left till my timer is ready. If during the fight I need a moment to recast self buffs / refresh II the healer or whatever, then I'll call out one of the backup stunners to cover me for a bit, they'll then drop whatever their doing and cover stuns while I do whatever it is i needed done.

It sounds complex but it's actually really simple, doesn't require a bunch of macros with
/ma stun <t>
/tell someone YOUR NEXT!!

And hoping everyone goes in order and no two people blow their stuns at the same time and thus screw up the order. People aren't caught putting up buffs, casting tier II AM or other random things when their needed to stun. It doesn't have to be me doing this, any RDM/DRK (/BLM) or BLM/RDM can do it, we don't like WHM's to do it because their too busy healing, same with SCH's and DRK's, well the less I say the better. Locking out one or two of a NM's moves can turn an extremely difficult fight into a ridiculously easy one.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

It's news to me. *shrug*

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It was just an esoteric joke about Voidwatch. I guess, like many of my jokes, it was not funny. Sorry for any confusion.

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Originally Posted by saevel

I stay locked onto the target with my finger above the stun macro, doing absolutely nothing else.

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This is what anyone would ideally be doing when it is his or her turn to Stun within a Stun order.

This aside, I'm sure both both methods are valid. It's cool that you've found an alternate method which you prefer.

Just saying it was probably the group I was with since we never had serious problems at 75, even if it was to just shutdown 1 or 2 moves. I wouldn't see an order being setup with a group I couldn't trust anyway (had a group wipe to percy @ 85 cap because 3 blms couldn't figure out how stun slide...)

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

It was just an esoteric joke about Voidwatch. I guess, like many of my jokes, it was not funny. Sorry for any confusion.

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It's ok, it was a good effort.

But seriously, I would laugh if my LS told me to waste a merit on Blind II.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Just saying it was probably the group I was with since we never had serious problems at 75, even if it was to just shutdown 1 or 2 moves. I wouldn't see an order being setup with a group I couldn't trust anyway (had a group wipe to percy @ 85 cap because 3 blms couldn't figure out how stun slide...)

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I'd like to think that everyone but you was working hard to pull out a loss, given that it was Percy.

The Black Mages had coordinated their longest casting time spells to make sure none of them would be able to stun.

The White Mages all worked hard to be AFK.

The melee carefully adjusted their -MDT% sets to become +MDT% sets.

You gazed upon this spectacle and felt a mixture of awe and shame in your heart of hearts.

Unless the group was all mages who had been killing worms and just popped Percy because the items dropped.

More seriously, I totally agree that the first, last, and biggest factor in stunning anything is being in a group not full of blundering nincompoops.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

It's ok, it was a good effort.

But seriously, I would laugh if my LS told me to waste a merit on Blind II.

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*stares at his one Blind II merit*

...

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LEAVE THE POOR SPELL ALONE! IT'S SPECIAL!

(Just because all the other spells are actually useful... *sniff*)

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

*stares at his one Blind II merit*

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LEAVE THE POOR SPELL ALONE! IT'S SPECIAL!

(Just because all the other spells are actually useful... *sniff*)

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It's okay, man. It's okay, Blind II. I'm sure that White Mage would never have obtained a set of Fazheluo Radiant Mail if you guys hadn't been in the right place at the right time. I still believe in you!

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Originally Posted by Rayik

And you still left my quote there, even though the rest of your response is falsely aimed at it. Get out of here with that stuff, man. Hello Ignore button.

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I left your quote there because you were referring to the post I made in response to somebody's use of that video as an example of all the free time a RDM mule had that they could have been doing something else with. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Wow, think this thread my need a bump so some of the more fanatic RDM melee'rs have some where to post.

So what's the current state of RDM melee, any one have some number's they like too post or gear set up's they like to share. I'd really like to get this thread rolling again so that we can get some of these guy's rolling around posting in other thread's a place to share there knowledge in all thing's RDM & melee. There's been quite a few updates to the job's gear set's, and i'm sure some one would like to share some of there discovery's.

TP

Almace/Shikargar/x/Smart Grenade(Oneiros Pebble, Tiphia Sting)
Zelus/Rancor (Portus)/Brutal/Suppa
ACP Dual Wield/Brego/Rajas/Fencer's(Mars's, Tyrant's)
Atheling/Phasmida (Ninurta's)/Calmecac (Rubeus)/Eurus

OR

Excal/Shikargar/x/Smart Grenade(Oneiros Pebble, Tiphia Sting)
Zelus/Rancor (Portus)/Brutal/Suppa
ACP Dual Wield/Brego/Rajas/Fencer's (Mars's, Tyrant's)
Atheling/Phasmida (Ninurta's)/Calmecac (Rubeus)/Eurus

WS

Almace/Shikargar/x/Demonry Core
MKD head (Brego)/Moepapa/Brutal/Moonshade
Antares/Alucinor (Warlock's +1)/Rajas/Thundersoul
Rancourous/Cuch/Tumbler's/Lithe

Excal/Shikargar/x/Aqua Sachet
Ruach Crown/elegorget/Brutal/Moonshade
Heka's (Nefer+1)/Duelist's+2/Aquasoul/Aquasoul
Atheling/Elebelt/Rubeus (tumbler's, Tethyan/Nares)/Estq.+2

Probably the best sets for Swords at the moment. For Requi set replace Excal with Str Shikargar.

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

So what's the current state of RDM melee, any one have some number's they like too post or gear set up's they like to share. I'd really like to get this thread rolling again so that we can get some of these guy's rolling around posting in other thread's a place to share there knowledge in all thing's RDM & melee.

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That's until the same guys who invaded this thread the first time decide to show up again. I give it 4 days. Today being march 14th. They know who they are, and most likely won't disappoint me.

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There's been quite a few updates to the job's gear set's, and i'm sure some one would like to share some of there discovery's.

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I have a pretty good idea for a melee set, just need to actually get the pieces.

TP
Head: Walahra Turban or Zelus Tiara
Body: Assault Jerkin or Goliard Saio
Hands: Brego Gloves
Legs: Calc. Trousers, Rubeus Spats
Feet: Eurus' Ledelsens
Ears: Suppanomimi (even if its one of those "lol good luck getting someone to help with Divine Might" things), Brutal Earring ("lol good luck getting someone to help you kill Ultima and Omega and Tenzen to get you sea access")
Rings: Rajas, ???
Belt: Ninurta's Sash, Speed Belt, Swift Belt
Back: Atheling Mantle
Ammo: Tiphia Sting

That's something to start with. The sad thing is that it turns into a uniform instead of being knick-knacks you pick up here and there to gear yourself. I don't think there's even much in terms of hold-overs when it comes to melee gear for RDM. Kinda makes me wish we had been added to Epona's Ring or Twilight Belt or Toci's set.

You could probably solo CoP. You can definitely duo it.

Brego Helm pretty much antiquated Wal Turb if you were still using it for some reason over Zelus, such as using Goli body because ACP is tied up elsewhere.

Since I have a moment before work.
Main: Almace or Magian STR Sword
Sub: Magian STR Sword
Ranged: Aeorle (the Mag.Acc+8 one) helpful item in general
Ammo: Demonary Core (if not using aerole)
Head: Z.Tiara
Neck: Rancor Collar, otherwise Fort Torque
Ear1: Suppa
Ear2: Brutal
Body: Goliard
Hands: Brego
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Tyrants
Back: Atheling
Waist: Phasmada
Legs: Calmac (unless acc is issue then Rub spats)
Feet: Ragar Ledelsens

I'll post CDC set later. If you don't have CDC then get Req, turns out it's better then we thought due to fTP passing on all hits. Moten's got it beating vorpal on pretty much everything.

And get 500 Enhancing set, 2nd best thing you can do, 1st being getting an Almace.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

You could probably solo CoP. You can definitely duo it.

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I'm sure I can solo Ultima and Omega. The problem is Tenzen, as I don't think I can dish out the damage needed to take him out quickly. I don't think that's a fight I can take my time with given his SCs and Cosmic Illucidation.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Belt: Ninurta's Sash, Speed Belt, Swift Belt
Back: Atheling Mantle
Ammo: Tiphia Sting

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Goading and Hasty Pinion give 6% Haste while being sTP neutral for their two slots, which is especially useful for builds where you are too poor to get the 6% belt (hopefully the price flatlines on the Speed Belt or whatever when that rumored 7/8% belt comes) and the Store TP won't bump you up even one hit (very likely with 1h weapons).

Of course, if you do have a better haste belt a White Tathlum is a pretty good option too.

One Set:
Almace/Ephemeron/???/Demonry
Brego/Nefarious/Brutal/Suppa
Goliard/Brego/Rajas/Mars
Rancor/Phasmida/Rubeus/Savat.Gait

Can replace Phasmida with Ninurta, Rubeus with Calm. Ephemeron offers the TP:Drain, Which, Is actually pretty potent from what I'm assuming(lawl). Might be a good benefit. Also has Haste+3 lets you switch out Zelus for Brego.

A second Set:
Almace/99STR/???/Demonry
Zelus/Nefar/Brutal/Suppa
Golia/Brego/Rajas/Mars
Rancor/Phasm/rubeus/Savat.

Sava can be replace, It'll leave you a half a % Short of True haste cap, But if you got better DD Feet, Easily replaced. Either way, Rancor + Nefarious is probably better combo than any Atheling Mantle pair.

Also, Mandau + Exenterator Isn't half bad, Won't come close to the WS output of CDC

Rancorous/Nefarious has always come behind Rancor/Atheling when I plug it in. It's pretty negligible though, like under 1%.

There are more confirmed coruscantis than Ephemerons, I definitely wouldn't bank on it on any build. I'm not too sure on the TP drain effect but I haven't heard anything spectacular about it (seems to be high but low proc rate). Proth mentioned it before for Blu, but I can't seem to find the post.

Rancor Collar + Atheling will beat out Nef + Rancor back. Rancor back has +3% DA to go with the +20 Attack. Your looking at gaining 3%crit at the expense of 3% DA and some attack.

Brego helm sucks vs Zelus, the 6 STR and DEX don't even compare to what the 2% haste does, but more importantly it opens up other slots for different stats. Brego help does make a good Ws piece, and a good stand-in until someone has Zelus. If your acc is over cap then Calmeric over Rub, Rub is slightly better if your need the 18 accuracy, extra 5 attack and +2.2 fSTR. STR Sword is pretty much your best option unless your fighting EP's bordering on TW's.

The big rub is the body piece, Goliard is 4% haste and ACP Body can be 10 attack 10 acc, or 3% DW. I've been debating which way to go, ACP DW (10 atk 3DW) Erus's feet or Goliard + Rager feet. I'm leading toward the ACP set being stronger in the long run but god I hate the look of that body.

ACP/Eurus is coming out 2% ahead of Goli/Rager if acc capped. Falls behind by the same amount if acc uncapped.

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Brego helm sucks vs Zelus, the 6 STR and DEX don't even compare to what the 2% haste does, but more importantly it opens up other slots for different stats.

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You do realize that Ephemeron has Haste+3%, Which allows for the use of a Different head other than Zelus and still cap haste, Which is the only reason Brego Helm is even in the first set? Thats why the second set, without Ephem, Has Zelus.

Second, I actually mentioned Calma. Trousers.

Also, The only reason theres more Coruscantis is because Qilin is spammed way more often than Aello :| If people actually did Aello... The Sword is still really nice though.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You do realize that Ephemeron has Haste+3%, Which allows for the use of a Different head other than Zelus and still cap haste, Which is the only reason Brego Helm is even in the first set? Thats why the second set, without Ephem, Has Zelus.

Second, I actually mentioned Calma. Trousers.

Also, The only reason theres more Coruscantis is because Qilin is spammed way more often than Aello :| If people actually did Aello... The Sword is still really nice though.

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Ok 3% haste on sword for 6STR 6DEX on head vs 11 STR 22 Attack on sword 8% haste on head. It actually ends up very slightly behind. It would entirely depend on how potent that Drain Tp effect is and how it interacts with Enspells. If it's anything like what recent Coruscanti testing has shown, it'll be a very low proc rate.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Ok 3% haste on sword for 6STR 6DEX on head vs 11 STR 22 Attack on sword 8% haste on head. It actually ends up very slightly behind. It would entirely depend on how potent that Drain Tp effect is and how it interacts with Enspells. If it's anything like what recent Coruscanti testing has shown, it'll be a very low proc rate.

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You're completely discounting Ephemeron's TP: Drain, Which, IF the video is any example(Which is a huge stretch i know), rather potent. Sure, Its an Unknown Factor, But if it drains even ~10~20 TP, Its offering more than a piddly amount of Acc and attack will ever do for your TP Phase.

Plus, Ephemeron may be hard to get, But that doesn't discredit its uses... If you're going to get a Level 99 Almace as an Example, You can Put Ephemeron as an Example.

Since you can Spam Aello for Pouches for your 99 Almace anyway :D

As far as proc rate, Even 10% Proc rate with 10-20TP Drain would be a significant Boost. Coruscanti is just... Sad, i admit. Wish I could find someone with this Sword. The one i saw drop went to a WHM i think. yah...

Turns out ACP ATK/DW body + Eurus feet is better then Goliard + Rager's, so looks like I'm switching out my ACP body after all.

And IDK if moten broke something, but Req is kicking CDC's ass in WS damage. With all the MND we can get it jacks the WSC up. Gorget and Belt add +0.2 fTP to each hit, turns a 5.0 fTP ws into a 6.0 fTP one before off hand. CDC's ODD might put it ahead in the end but both wiki's lack any info about the proc rates. I would take a WAG at ~10~20% but I really want the actual tested one.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You're completely discounting Ephemeron's TP: Drain, Which, IF the video is any example(Which is a huge stretch i know), rather potent. Sure, Its an Unknown Factor, But if it drains even ~10~20 TP, Its offering more than a piddly amount of Acc and attack will ever do for your TP Phase.

Plus, Ephemeron may be hard to get, But that doesn't discredit its uses... If you're going to get a Level 99 Almace as an Example, You can Put Ephemeron as an Example.

Since you can Spam Aello for Pouches for your 99 Almace anyway :D

As far as proc rate, Even 10% Proc rate with 10-20TP Drain would be a significant Boost. Coruscanti is just... Sad, i admit. Wish I could find someone with this Sword. The one i saw drop went to a WHM i think. yah...

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For starters,
I said,

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It would entirely depend on how potent that Drain Tp effect is and how it interacts with Enspells

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I didn't discount it, but there is no known info. And if it's anything like twilight then it'll be overwritten by enspells. Once I have actual into then I can count it. Also I didn't use 99 Almace, I used 90 Almace because that is what I have. I try to only use gear that either I have or can easily acquire. This allows me to be somewhat realistic about gear.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Turns out ACP ATK/DW body + Eurus feet is better then Goliard + Rager's, so looks like I'm switching out my ACP body after all.

And IDK if moten broke something, but Req is kicking CDC's ass in WS damage. With all the MND we can get it jacks the WSC up. Gorget and Belt add +0.2 fTP to each hit, turns a 5.0 fTP ws into a 6.0 fTP one before off hand. CDC's ODD might put it ahead in the end but both wiki's lack any info about the proc rates. I would take a WAG at ~10~20% but I really want the actual tested one.

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Req is actually 'fixed', since I informed Mot about the issue with replicating ftp. Excal actually beats Almace on weaker mobs. Falls behind on stronger stuff due to attack penalty.

Although I doubt you'll even read this.