I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

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Originally Posted by Lithera

No it's not he just said he wants to get rid of everything trivial. What is trivial to him most likely isn't to those who oppose him.

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So you're telling me that completing CoP before getting certain ilevel gear is a massively important thing to all of the people opposing that 1 specific change, even though it literally doesn't affect them at all if it's changed since they already have it finished?

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Also where do we stop at if we did take out trivial things? It is a very slippery slope to where it's like stomps said it might as well be an app that allows us to put dogs in cute costumes.

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Slippery Slope arguments are in my opinion the worst arguments that can ever be made to not do something. You know why? Anything can be taken too far, look far enough down that slope and you will find a terrible place no one wants to end up at, but generally people don't look down these slopes unless it's something that they don't want or doesn't affect them. The argument that it's a slippery slope is basically 'it could end up being bad later, so lets do nothing that could even remotely start that chain now' rather than even thinking the idea of 'lets do what makes things better now, and if the time comes that things start getting out of hand lets slam on the breaks' which in my personally opinion is the much better way to go about it.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

My Doctorate is in Social Science, which I have taught at University for almost twenty years. My qualifications are not in the field of "writing beautiful prose on web forums."

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If there's one thing I know about graduate school, is that you will have a style manual beaten into you. And you should have written more than enough papers by now that "writing beautiful prose" should be second nature to you, be the medium a web forum or not.

Don't title drop your degree and not expect to be held to the higher standard you just introduced.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Slippery Slope arguments are in my opinion the worst arguments that can ever be made to not do something. You know why? Anything can be taken too far, look far enough down that slope and you will find a terrible place no one wants to end up at, but generally people don't look down these slopes unless it's something that they don't want or doesn't affect them. The argument that it's a slippery slope is basically 'it could end up being bad later, so lets do nothing that could even remotely start that chain now' rather than even thinking the idea of 'lets do what makes things better now, and if the time comes that things start getting out of hand lets slam on the breaks' which in my personally opinion is the much better way to go about it.

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That is the difference between some posters like you and me. You think these proposed changes are good, while I see them as starting to get out of hand already. We have different views at where the point of "good for the game" and "going too far" lie.

For me, the point lies betweens easing the difficulty of content (good) versus removing the content from the equation completely (bad), like in regards to the request to separate CoP progression from reforged armor.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Guess what, nothing that has been suggested would prevent you from it.

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You said want to be a game designer but you still don't understand psychology and human behavior.

Players don't purposely pick 1 way to play the game, unless the designer force them to do it. Further more, even if 1 person decided to play the game different from what designers wanted them to, the rest of the community still gonna play the way designers wanted them to, in the end you still won't get the said experience.

For example, if a party gets 10000 EXP/hr, solo gets 9990 EXP/hr, most people would just solo. Because the extra time you spend making a pt makes it less efficent than solo. Even if you want to party just because you love to party, nobody else gonna party with you because it's not efficent for THEM. If you want players to party, you have to make solo EXP 10/hr or content unbeatable. You can't expect players to party by themselves just because they like to party. You have to make the game a party focused game.

What is the point to purposely play slow, when every other player isn't going to play slow? It doesn't work that way. MMORPG community work as a whole, you can give players option to travel by teleport or travel by 10 min airship, 99.99999% of players gonna travel by teleport, even if you want to travel the slow way, nobody want to wait for you in the party. This applies to every aspect in this game.

Basically, what you're saying is, if you want to play slow, go play slow, but I want instant gratification, dev give me instant gratification. It may work in a single player game, but it doesn't work in MMO, in which you also play with other players. The game design affects entire community, not just 1 person.

The experience a game provides, is not related to player choice, but the game design itself. Purposely play slow or purposely spend time in other aspect of the game, does not change the nature of the game.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

I'm not sure why it is so hard to understand that everyone has different taste, and why do people like Afania continue to act as though other games like FFXIV and WoW are accurate replacements for FFXI when the gameplay is entirely different, and nothing asked for changes this game's gameplay or difficulty, only mediocre boring easy crap we don't find fun or entertaining in any way and want to cut out so that players can more easily enjoy the game?

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The thing you don't find "fun", is the thing I find important in a RPG.....something I find "fun". Also I really don't understand your logic. Based on your previous statment, it's obvious that FFXI is not your cup of tea, barring combat/job system. But you choose to complain on FFXI forum so they change the game direction to fit your taste. Why don't you do the same on FFXIV forum? FFXIV can't replace your XI, why not complain on FFXIV(or instert your MMO title) forum so they change the gameplay/battle system and made FFXIV a proper replacement?

It just....logically it makes zero sense. You dislike XI, but continue to linger in XI, wanted XI to change so it become a game you'd like. But you don't do the same to other titles so other titles fit your taste.

Maybe you should start a post about how bad FFXIV battle system is so dev can change it....I mean, they've changed the FFXIV battle system several times in past 3+ years, sure they can change it again if you complained enough!

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

No, I'm not going to stop asking devs to make changes to the game that I think would make the game better, that is the entire fkin point in having forums! What in the world do you think these forums exist for if not for feedback?

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Of course everyone has their opinion about what make a better game, and you're free to present your opinion. I don't always love FFXI, there are certain game direction I don't like either. I don't like Abyssea era because everyone play with mules and it killed the whole point of playing MMO, I don't like SoA era because SoA direction made FFXI feel more like a game and less like a virtual world, thus made the game less interesting. I dislike them, I've complained about them on the forum a couple of times, but I don't start thirty nine pages of discussion and continue to complain just because the game won't change. I wrote a couple of SoA rant on the forum, but I don't linger for thirty nine pages on the forum just because the game won't change. I either move on if I don't like the direction, or deal with it. Despite I post on the forum often, I only play FFXI a few hours a month because I don't find FFXI fun anymore, and I used to play a lot. And even then, I don't complain for 39 pages like OP just because if the game isn't what I wanted it to be.

I don't like the direction, and not everyone agree with me, what else I gonna do? Write a couple of rant post, if games won't change then move on. I just fail to understand why you/Crevox have so much hate about the game direction, with opinions obviously not everyone agrees, AND continue to complain on the forum for 30 pages. As if everyone has to agree with your opinion or else you won't give up.

The issue isn't even "I have different opinion", the issue is "you must agree with my opinion or else....", then inc 30 pages of discussion, and it's still going on.

You don't like this game, other ppl still like this game. If you guys have so much time to complain about a game direction that's obviously not your cup of tea, at least pick a different game already heading toward a direction you want.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

Oh snap Afania just got back into the thread ya-all. This is gonna go for at least 5 more pages. Go get your popcorn and have a seat. :D

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This statement pointed out that I'm not the main culprit of this 35+ pages thread. It's going to last forever without me, tbh ._.

Oh I know it will unless a community rep locks it cause it just now is starting to get reaaaly nasty.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

Oh I know it will unless a community rep locks it cause it just now is starting to get reaaaly nasty.

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Not really. We've been having good, productive discussion for a while now. Understanding each other's view points and reason behind opinion is pretty much the key here. There's a little sidetracking, but it always gets back on point.

If more people would come out and say why they believe things shouldn't be changed, instead of just straight up calling people "lazy" or something else for suggesting it, we can get somewhere.

We won't though because people's thick skulls and stubbornness is starting to come out. Also until you resub we all know that you wouldn't be able to continue to post here. Thus you have been breaking the ToS.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

We won't though because people's thick skulls and stubbornness is starting to come out. Also until you resub we all know that you wouldn't be able to continue to post here. Thus you have been breaking the ToS.

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No, that's the design of this site allowing cookies to remain valid for so long. When his expires, or he takes an action that renews it (like trying to view his profile), he will lose the ability to post to, but not read the forums until he resubs.

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Originally Posted by bungiefanNA

No, that's the design of this site allowing cookies to remain valid for so long. When his expires, or he takes an action that renews it (like trying to view his profile), he will lose the ability to post to, but not read the forums until he resubs.

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Go read the part of the ToS of what you are allowed to have access to if you terminate your sub. You are allowed as long as you are subbed to use anything that you need to sign into using Square ID. He stated clearly that he is no longer subbed to the game. He is just using a loophole at the moment. Again if he doesn't want to be perma baned from the forums he'll have to resub.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

Go read the part of the ToS of what you are allowed to have access to if you terminate your sub. You are allowed as long as you are subbed to use anything that you need to sign into using Square ID. He stated clearly that he is no longer subbed to the game. He is just using a loophole at the moment. Again if he doesn't want to be perma baned from the forums he'll have to resub.

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Yes, I'm sure they enforce that very harshly.