Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Re-read my first paragraph. TH3 seems obvious to you, suggesting traits are more significant than +TH gear, but TH3 is obtainable by a Lv75 Thief with Knife. TH3+0 or TH2+1, both are listed as "Level 3 effectiveness". You're contradicting yourself a bit: what you're saying would suggest that adding one TH item to a Lv75 thief would be significant (By virtue of TH3 seeming obvious), which goes against your claim that traits are strong and +TH gear is less significant.

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I'm chalking up "TH2+1 vs TH3+0" displaying as "Th effectiveness level 3" to just lazy programming or now way to correctly word it via displayed message.

I don't want to believe a level 15THF when he gets TH can have the same level of TH Effectiveness as a level 90THF simply by upgrading TH on a mob twice.

Sorry If i'm reading you wrong.

After playing thf for about 4 years now, and parsing thousands of buggard and ladybug droprates the best increase i saw from using thief knife and hands was 2%, which went right in line with what i saw in the testing on alla. I'm totally open to the idea that it might be a flat 2% which would be significant on mobs that only have like a 1% droprate to begin with, but i have seen nothing since the update to make me belive that procing TH beyond the initial 3-5 has any real value. My experience has been that when i kill a mob with no procs i might get no drop. when i kill a mob with th i will probly get 1-2 seals, but if I kill it with no thf and proc yellow and blue, i will probably get full gear drops and 3-4 seals. Too be honest, if they don't give thf either:

1. A damage boost to make it competitive with other dd classes

2. A serious boost to steal / despoil to the point that i really wanna come thief for the gil / drops ( like to the point where people are arguing over who gets to be thf )

or

3. A boost to treasure hunter that makes it at least as powerful as procs ( think items that normally only drop once dropping multiple times )

I will probably just play war nin and blm from now on. I'm pretty tired of Spending crazy time in events to gear a job that can do all of its functions with only 3 pieces of gear ( 2 are super cheap on the AH) just as well. But then again, maybe this is SEs wacky way of weeding out the bandwagon thfs that just play it so they can get super rich off of beastcoins or w/e bullshit it is that they think we are stealing too much of.

I would suggest one thing to have a better talk on TH or thief in general . Ask SE some information on how many :

-TH traits give us on % drop.
-TH gears give us on % drop.
-TH enhancement from fight give us on % drop.

With those info we can know what TH is really mean to do and how it work.

On another though , like nearly everyone said that fun to make us an enmity controller but with only way to steal enmity we can't control hate because over time we will finish with max hate , what when we are main tank isn't a problem , but when we are thf in alliance is a problem because we aren't the tank.

Instead of giving us an ability to remove hate(what some ppl asking) why not change trick attack and make it transfer a part of hate from thf to the one he TA , and with that we can control hate more easily.

For steal/despoil I think everyone have stated the good laugh of what Development Team are saying : your steal/despoil aren't successful enough so we will boost there success but we will not add anything worth stealing because else we will break economic market on Server . Good new to you development Team that already done : Cruor set , Dominion point weapon , item from gold chest (gear,weapon,spell,synthesis material) can be sell to NPC for an amount of gil who can go from 1K to 33K if not more or some be sell in AH for more than 50K.

So Camate if you can answer at least at first part that would be awesome and at least make us know what is the real influence we have on drop.

PS: Before ppl say SE will not answer , that cost nothing to ask and we can have a good surprise with an answer of what is the true % of TH.

should post TH questions on the vana'diel misteries thread! lol anyone did that already? didn't follow it so much and i'm going to bed~

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Re-read my first paragraph. TH3 seems obvious to you, suggesting traits are more significant than +TH gear, but TH3 is obtainable by a Lv75 Thief with Knife. TH3+0 or TH2+1, both are listed as "Level 3 effectiveness". You're contradicting yourself a bit: what you're saying would suggest that adding one TH item to a Lv75 thief would be significant (By virtue of TH3 seeming obvious), which goes against your claim that traits are strong and +TH gear is less significant.

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A TH3 proc from a level 75 THF is just TH2+1. I'm sure SE just chose to display it as TH3 because people have been calling TH2+2 TH4 for years. It's entirely possible that the TH3 trait also counts as a +1 and SE chose to list it as a trait to mislead us for the sake of keeping THFs relevant. I mean.. I haven't seen drop rate increases to suggest a 3rd reroll on drops. That is the test I would like to see.. Trait TH3 vs Trait TH2. Maybe if we can prove it's worthless we will stop getting invites and SE will have to give us solid job growth!!

The best way to prove that would be to kill a bunch of lesser colibri on THF to compare to our one strong sample.

How big of a sample would be needed to prove TH3 is or isn't a 3rd reroll? I would consider doing it but only if it's not a HUGE sample. I almost lost my mind doing mandau trials on those things. I'm afraid too many hours there would cause a meltdown.

By the K's range i'd say? I don't think we need much to test if TH3 extends the known behavior of TH2. But if we are to test TH3+0 vs TH2+1, we will surely need some good numbers. Or not. If the difference is discrepant lol.

On this line of thought: I used to farm wild onions back in the day, with their current price craze and as oportunity to test TH a bit, i went down there last week. With TH2+2 i used to get close to 5 stacks/h, with TH3+3 i was expecting close to 6stacks/h. Stayed for only 1h (no patience for this anymore), but 6 stacks i got.

edit2: Ugh actually, this test won't cut it. I just noticed that even though i did get more onions, i actually killed more goblins. Seems like SE changed its drop rate when they rearranged mobs inside inner horutoto. My TH4 parse has about 130 gobs killed per hour, i killed 163 in 1h on this new one.

Edit: Oh and an interesting tidbit. The Wiki has wild onion with 20.9% drop rate with 116 drops out of 554 kills. Of course, we can never trust those numbers as we can't really tell if there are varying TH samples mixed in. But considering they are right, and applying the roll concept, the TH2 drop rate would become 50.5%. My 1560 kills parse has 50.13% drop rate with TH4. The drop rate on the wiki was not so far off then, and also, the effect from hands and knife were indeed small.

Well, it depends what the goal is. You can see the sample we'd be working off of here. To really confirm anything you're going to need a comparable sample size without TH procs, but we'd predict about a 68% drop rate for Feathers and about a 57% drop rate on Beaks.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

comparable sample size without TH procs

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Which makes this incredibly hard now lol. Can't kill mindlessly and let a parse do the job.