Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

@panthera
You are using the 'accomplish' of leveling as a way to assign value to the end result, a functional level 90 character with respectably leveled skills and knowledge of how the job they leveled works by way of the leveling process. You consider a bad level 90 character who has leveled by traditional means more of an accomplishment than a good level 90 character that was leveled by some other way.

The end result either has value or does not regardless of the means of leveling. What is your answer to players who are better at their jobs than others, and reach level cap faster even using more traditional means? Players who don't have capped skills despite being active in a party? On one hand you try to place importance on learning a job, but leveling faster gives you less time to do that. Learning any job in this game is easily offset by doing outside research, and I argue that outside research is in fact a much better learning tool than leveling by traditional means. By researching a job or game mechanics we achieve the same 'accomplishment' as leveling, and more so, in a shorter time frame. We learn more valuable skills than grinding out experience points can ever teach us.

The PLD story I spoke of earlier is not made up. I brought it up because it proves a point. Your definition of cheating can be applied to every single person who plays this game, even you. It is a loose employment of the term that is subject to assessment by the governing body of this game. SE holds all rights over the game environment, and as such what they deem allowable is in effect 'not cheating' in their game. That they have not outright condoned it doesn't matter. They continue to alter other aspects of the game to allow even more methods of fast leveling, even below level 30. These methods also allow for characters to 'leech'. If you truly believe that SE didn't intend for people to 'leech' in Abyssea, that it was an oversight on their part, what is your answer to recently released content? Community reps have responded in several of these topics, it's safe to assume that they are aware of our actions in game.

I'd also like you to answer me one more question. You claim to not allow people below a certain level in your parties. Who opens chests? Do you have a level 90 character with capped merits on all his jobs just for that? Or do you let people temporarily cheat so that you can get chests? After all, opening chests is 'leeching', 'leeching' is cheating. People will miss out on the accomplishment of learning new skills above 75, or whichever level you arbitrarily decided wasn't cheating anymore.

And by the way, I own all three of my accounts. I started the first one in December of 2003. I started the second with an Ultimate Edition game key from Steam when Abyssea came out, and I started the third this month from an UE - Abyssea copy. I started the second because I purchased a second laptop, I started the third because I built a new desktop. I'm running my three accounts on three different machines. You mention that I made my arguments without resorting to name calling, yet you use petty offhanded remarks in an attempt to discredit me? Nice try. That's your moral outrage showing.

You guys don't realize why you are upset. Ask yourself this; Is there any reason to be any level besides 90?

If there was meaningful content to explore at lower levels or tangible rewards for getting to 90 on multiple jobs then yes there would be a valid excuse for raising the required level for entrance. Until then quit pissing and moaning about how you spent a year leveling THF to 75 so everyone else should too.

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I mean if you're nuking like hell, you're going to get hate so you'll learn to try and avoid hate even if it takes a few deaths to do so.

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Perfect example of how exp parties actually do more harm than good. Over nuking in exp is not a good idea. At 90 however, you simply hit manawall and keep nuking. What works in exp does NOT necessarily apply at 90.

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Originally Posted by rog

Perfect example of how exp parties actually do more harm than good. Over nuking in exp is not a good idea. At 90 however, you simply hit manawall and keep nuking. What works in exp does NOT necessarily apply at 90.

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This is pretty much always the case. EXP'ing teaches you how to EXP, not how to play FFXI.

Maat's Cap players pre-SMN burn were notorious for being some of the absolute worst players in the entire game because they tried to apply their EXP playstyle to Endgame and refused to listen to anyone else.

Don't you know? Maat's Cap means you won the game and clearly you cannot be wrong. Geez, GG, I thought you were the smart one.

That aside, I'm in general agreement with the crowd that's against raising the level minimum for Abyssea. Sure, you don't get the "traditional" way of learning your job, but that hasn't slowed me down once. Even back then, I didn't learn the job by mindlessly grinding and repeating the same actions over and over and over; I asked my linkshell for advice, or other party members if they've played the job. In fact, the only good thing old-school parties did for me was hook me up with five other characters who might have leveled my job and might have some modicum of skill in it, so that I could talk to them and learn how to do better, or give advice myself.

My point is, we can learn from grinding, yes, but it's a slow, experimental process that's more likely to get you killed than not. On the other hand, learning from other players, asking advice, etc is the fastest and quickest way to learn a job, as well as buffering that with research so you don't get things like Naturebeckles's take on Haste that we've seen on this forum. I remember that I thought TA only worked on party members for a while, not the whole ally, because I was told that. ;(

So yeah. Raise the minimum? Two thumbs down, down, down.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Don't you know? Maat's Cap means you won the game and clearly you cannot be wrong.

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This is the only thing that matters, amirite?

Whether xp is an "accomplishment" is irrelevant, fyi @ aki and panthera and anyone else who wants to keep yapping about it.

Even if xp was still the hardest grind ever, that doesn't automatically mean everyone has to take part in it just because you get the enjoyment out of the accomplishment as well. As I stated before, people care more about gear, crafting, lolchocoracing, even ballista for some.

No one here is going to call you a cheater and a n00b just because you don't participate in pankration. But some take great pride in their little mob.

Oh and yes because of that one arena being broken, you could "leech" your pet to cap level. More power to them I say.

Again it's about the choice. You want to take pride in your xp and jobs? Go for it. Do not then insist everyone has to partake in what many consider a headache.


More to the point, care about your accomplishments because you care about them, not for personal glory in making sure as many people know about it as possible. You know you did it, that should be enough.

Ultimately no MMO is really complicated. It's not how you maintain a player base. Really, anyone who is telling themselves they're pro at a MMORPG is just grasping for something to be proud of. Sitting at your computer desk or on your couch for long hours, mashing keys and controller buttons is not what I call impressive, boys and girls. We like to play pretend and all that crap, but let's step out of character for a moment and be realistic here. No one outside of this game cares about you or what you're doing in FFXI. It is more or less 7 billion people minus 3-500,000 FFXI players that couldn't care less how fast you mash keys during a Byakko solo. You're not really pro. You're not impressive except to those who never learned how to use a keyboard. You're just a normal Joe or Jane Doe in this world in this vast universe of worlds that exist.

So, are we done here? Can we move on already? Is this thing on? They are NEVER going to raise the entry level to Abyssea. It is tied to add on sales. NEVER. End of story.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I'm curious.

How good are you at FFXI? How well do you know the game, and fundamental mechanics?

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He can't be that great. With all his talk about lvling jobs, being honest, expecting when you invite people to have basic things like skill he never even finished most of his merits...

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Unicorn/Panthera#merits

I don't understand why people believe that exping is the most important part of the game. Personally, I try to avoid exping as much as possible, even the current Abyssea leeching trend. I'd rather be doing other things.

Why am I not surprised to see a Maat's Cap and all jobs levelled? They are not skill-based achievements, just time based...