[dev1017] Job Adjustments and Refinements

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Originally Posted by Dallas

If I can't make you post less about things you have never done, why are you worried for this guy?

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So that begs the question of what I haven't done before?

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Originally Posted by hiko

F.T.F.Y.
¨¨

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If you need Perfect Defense in Abyssea, you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

So that begs the question of what I haven't done before?

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Apparently you have never convinced anyone else that your SMN is worth inviting.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Apparently you have never convinced anyone else that your SMN is worth inviting.

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Neither have you. What's your point?

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So that begs the question of what I haven't done before?

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Improper use of "begs the question" phrase alert!

http://begthequestion.info/

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Improper use of "begs the question" phrase alert!

http://begthequestion.info/

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sorry.....

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Neither have you. What's your point?

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Don't worry about my point. You aren't the audience, just the example.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Don't worry about my point. You aren't the audience, just the example.

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............ wut

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

............ wut

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You don't expect me to give away all my secrets, do you? Korpg is the guy arguing with Columbus that the world is flat, while looking at it from the moon.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

You don't expect me to give away all my secrets, do you? Korpg is the guy arguing with Columbus that the world is flat, while looking at it from the moon.

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You just aren't making any real sense is all

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Originally Posted by Dallas

You don't expect me to give away all my secrets, do you? Korpg is the guy arguing with Columbus that the world is flat, while looking at it from the moon.

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So, you are Columbus now?

I think you are more of a Mark Cuban, an unimportant little guy who likes to shoot off his mouth way too much and think he is this world's greatest gift. Emphasis on the unimportant part.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Stuff

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Originally Posted by Korpg

So, you are Columbus now?

I think you are more of a Mark Cuban, an unimportant little guy who likes to shoot off his mouth way too much and think he is this world's greatest gift. Emphasis on the unimportant part.

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Well aren't you a Maverick.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Well aren't you a Maverick.

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Nice pun btw

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Originally Posted by Korpg

So, you are Columbus now?

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The "you" of 6 years ago thought that a SMN would never hit 100% TP on a Greater Colibri because every melee hit would be 0, and Meditate would simply result in a WS that did 0.

The analogy is sound. I didn't bother listening to "you." I walked right up to a Greater Colibri and hit it. You, on the other hand, are 6 years too late. If it's important, I've already swung my staff at it. I can just say "you are wrong" and smile.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

The "you" of 6 years ago thought that a SMN would never hit 100% TP on a Greater Colibri because every melee hit would be 0, and Meditate would simply result in a WS that did 0.

The analogy is sound. I didn't bother listening to "you." I walked right up to a Greater Colibri and hit it. You, on the other hand, are 6 years too late. If it's important, I've already swung my staff at it. I can just say "you are wrong" and smile.

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Some problems with your post:

1) *bolded* Nice example. One Pecking Flurry will result in your death, and One Feather Tickle will result in loss of your TP. Only way for you to kill that would be if, and only if, it uses Snatch Morsel exclusively.

2) 6 years ago, you didn't have an excuse to melee. You wiffed 30% of the time, or to gear right, you couldn't afford to keep your avatar out forever. Nobody could, but you would lose your avatar within 2 minutes. You would be called stupid, gimp, moronic, and other names that have their place on less reputable forums.

3) You would have done that by yourself. Any merit party who invited you would have asked themselves to gimp their xp/hr so bad, and you would have made SMN look bad, regardless of what you did.

4) The only thing you have done is show how much of a jerk you are. Al was the one who has proven that melee summoners are plausible, not you. All you have done is made SMNs look bad because of your arrogant attitude towards anyone who questions your way of thinking and calling people lazy/gimp for not doing things the same way you do. Your "I'm God and you better know it" opinion of yourself has done nothing but grief to anyone who wishes to either defend or support you.

All in short, shut the f**k up.

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1) *bolded* Nice example. One Pecking Flurry will result in your death, and One Feather Tickle will result in loss of your TP. Only way for you to kill that would be if, and only if, it uses Snatch Morsel exclusively.

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Is he soloing at merit camps now? Or is he out-DDing every single job in the game? Else I'm not sure a bird would pecking flurry at him.

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2) 6 years ago, you didn't have an excuse to melee. You wiffed 30% of the time, or to gear right, you couldn't afford to keep your avatar out forever. Nobody could, but you would lose your avatar within 2 minutes. You would be called stupid, gimp, moronic, and other names that have their place on less reputable forums.

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Well, 6 years ago the only thing a Summoner did was cast cure 3. I'm not sure what your point is here.

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3) You would have done that by yourself. Any merit party who invited you would have asked themselves to gimp their xp/hr so bad, and you would have made SMN look bad, regardless of what you did.

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Anyone, inviting SMN to anything, are gimping themselves. A job that is worse than others can't be part of a perfect setup.

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4) The only thing you have done is show how much of a jerk you are. Al was the one who has proven that melee summoners are plausible, not you. All you have done is made SMNs look bad because of your arrogant attitude towards anyone who questions your way of thinking and calling people lazy/gimp for not doing things the same way you do. Your "I'm God and you better know it" opinion of yourself has done nothing but grief to anyone who wishes to either defend or support you.

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I'd say you are just as much a jerk for questioning him constantly. Believe me, my arrogance grew every single day I had to hear stupid comments like "ZOMG SMN feeding the monster TP. Run away, AOE instant death incoming!".

Not defending Dallas at all, but I can't leave people alone who try and argue their side by using arguments that doesn't support either side. You can't sit there and call a melee SMN useless because it can't out-DD WARs, and then say it is a divine healer even if it heals worse than a WHM. The job sucks at everything except running away from monsters, accept it.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

The "you" of 6 years ago thought that a SMN would never hit 100% TP on a Greater Colibri because every melee hit would be 0, and Meditate would simply result in a WS that did 0.

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Are you guys still talking about Myrkr? Cause ... you know ... it does 0 damage...

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Not defending Dallas at all, but I can't leave people alone who try and argue their side by using arguments that doesn't support either side. You can't sit there and call a melee SMN useless because it can't out-DD WARs, and then say it is a divine healer even if it heals worse than a WHM. The job sucks at everything except running away from monsters, accept it.

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So what if it can't out DD a WAR, or out cure a RDM?

I never tried to out DD a WAR, nor make any baseless claims stating that a SMN can. Neither have I stated that it could out cure any actual healing jobs.

The job does not suck. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean that the job sucks period. I don't know any other jobs besides BST that can solo as many NMs as a SMN can. And there are some NMs out there that not even a BST can touch, but SMNs solo it with ease.

Dallas's problem is that he is so stuck on himself to realize the error of his idea. Maybe he does realize the error, but is too prideful to admit it.

I don't know what you have against SMN, but it is one of the most versatile jobs in this game.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

The only thing you have done is show how much of a jerk you are. Al was the one who has proven that melee summoners are plausible, not you.

All in short, shut the f**k up.

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Don't you feel even marginally stupid for spending 20% of your posts following me around showing everyone how wrong you are? I didn't want to convince you, I made an example of you.

You don't have to follow me anymore. You lost, angry guy.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Don't you feel even marginally stupid for spending 20% of your posts following me around showing everyone how wrong you are? I didn't want to convince you, I made an example of you.

You don't have to follow me anymore. You lost, angry guy.

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Dallas, no one is agreeing with you. Throughout this thread and the mythic/emp/relic staff thread people are just poking their heads in proving you wrong...

You can't prove me wrong if you can't even swing a staff.

Math is hard guys.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Math is hard guys.

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I only use Myrkr at 300% TP. That means every time I use it, I hit something. All the math in the world isn't going to convince me my staff is inaccurate.

People need to skill up their staves and find something they can't hit. I know what I can't hit. Abyssea gnats while using tank atma. The little buggers have TP reset too, so I avoid these guys like the plague.

Actually having skill goes a long way towards filtering out 90% of baseless claims. I don't even address them. The poster knows the difference between fact and fiction.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I only use Myrkr at 300% TP. That means every time I use it, I hit something. All the math in the world isn't going to convince me my staff is inaccurate.

People need to skill up their staves and find something they can't hit. I know what I can't hit. Abyssea gnats while using tank atma. The little buggers have TP reset too, so I avoid these guys like the plague.

Actually having skill goes a long way towards filtering out 90% of baseless claims. I don't even address them. The poster knows the difference between fact and fiction.

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Show us the parses. No math involved.

Probably take him a couple of days to fix the parses so it shows him outdamaging Ukon WARs at least 3 to 1.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Don't you feel even marginally stupid for spending 20% of your posts following me around showing everyone how wrong you are? I didn't want to convince you, I made an example of you.

You don't have to follow me anymore. You lost, angry guy.

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You aren't even worth 5% of my posts. You can't even count the number of posts I spent trying to reason/argue with you about your methods and divide that by my total number of posts.

Besides, how can I be wrong when nobody has proven you right, except yourself? In fact, there are more people telling you how wrong you are than people telling you how plausible you might be. And your only supporter doesn't even say the same thing you say, he only backs you up on the MP issue. Even he admits that SMN can't outdamage any actual DD job, but he says that it is not intended to do so either.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Besides, how can I be wrong

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It's really easy. You excel at it. You are still ranting about that stupid Ukon post you never read.

Still enjoying Ducal Guard?

Still taking my words out of context?

You know, you like to throw words together other people say, just to make you look good.

And yes, I still enjoy Ducal Guard. What's wrong with having an atma that would make physical damage taken go down to 12% of what it would hit a normal player for? Makes soloing Alfred that much easier, although no procs means very little drops. Doubt you could say you can solo anything harder than a bee in West Saru.

So i didn't read everything, But has Dallas provided 1 single shred of evidence to support his argument?

I personally believe SMN melee has a very very small place inside Abyssea, But I'm not delusion to think it will out DD good DD, just that it will slightly improve our over-all damage output.

But even so, Arguing non-stop while not providing even a single shred of evidence to support your argument seems like something only crazy/wrong players do. (I.E They realize they have no proof and their argument doesn't hold water but they're too proud to admit it so they act like an idiot by making fun of people against them in hopes people will eventually give up so they can save face and act like they won)

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Originally Posted by Korpg

And yes, I still enjoy Ducal Guard.

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That atma was discovered as a byproduct of the pursuit of a better melee SMN. You should be thankful that someone out here does ignore the theorycrafters.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I only use Myrkr at 300% TP. That means every time I use it, I hit something. All the math in the world isn't going to convince me my staff is inaccurate.

People need to skill up their staves and find something they can't hit. I know what I can't hit. Abyssea gnats while using tank atma. The little buggers have TP reset too, so I avoid these guys like the plague.

Actually having skill goes a long way towards filtering out 90% of baseless claims. I don't even address them. The poster knows the difference between fact and fiction.

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I have capped skill on war but not capped accuracy. WAR gets 20+12+7 accuracy in gear, SMN gets at most like 18... They have the same skill.

Edit: fighting general NMs for red in most situations.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

That atma was discovered as a byproduct of the pursuit of a better melee SMN. You should be thankful that someone out here does ignore the theorycrafters.

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Ok, how so? How was Ducal Guard "discovered" as a byproduct when the 3 things it does is purely defensive purposes only?

Guard damge -: Superior? When does melee SMN have guard skill at all? Before you answer, yes, I know that avatars have 100% guard on it, but that is besides the point. Why would any melee SMN look into that when they don't have that skill at all?

Less than 50% HP, Damage taken -50%? Only time you really see that come to play is when you have hate, and you are NOT supposed to have hate at all. Anybody with a brain can realize that SMN + death = no avatar. Since before the nerf (and after) the second portion of the atma couldn't be actually seen (even at 100% health the guard damage reduced the damage down to 0-3 damage per hit, kindof hard to tell a 50% reduction of damage taken at 50% health when the damage stays the same).

Movement speed down at less than 50%? WTF?

I think you are just throwing that out to say "I discovered this so you better bow down to me and love me!" Since you are the only melee SMN out there.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I have capped skill on war but not capped accuracy. WAR gets 20+12+7 accuracy in gear, SMN gets at most like 18... They have the same skill.

Edit: fighting general NMs for red in most situations.

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Don't forget Blue. WARs have as much Blue procs total than any other job, if you include ALL blue procs. Yeah, they suck at piercing, but if you are going to proc blue and have a WAR available, you have a good chance as any with Slashing as most other jobs available (PLD and DRK has almost as many procs, they don't have GA or Axe procs, but they have 1 more GS and Scythe/sword procs than WAR).

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Ok, how so? How was Ducal Guard "discovered" as a byproduct when the 3 things it does is purely defensive purposes only?

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Because I'm the only SMN who mastered the job well enough to figure out how to make the tank build work. Outside of Abyssea, the idea failed. Inside, I was already meleeing IT mobs with my tank build pre-DG. DG was a natural progression for me on a path that you won't be following.

You are a nuisance already. I don't want you to bow down to me. I want your presence to reflect your influence.

Egomania much?

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I have capped skill on war but not capped accuracy. WAR gets 20+12+7 accuracy in gear, SMN gets at most like 18... They have the same skill.

Edit: fighting general NMs for red in most situations.

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Well, what do you mean with capped accuracy? I whiff a lot on the high level THF mobs. I hit most hits on everything else on my DNC. My DNC wears less accuracy gear than my SMN, but they are of course B+ vs B in skill difference.

And where do you get 18 accuracy in gear from anyway? There are plenty of accuracy gear, the question is if you want to drop -perp for them. Peacock charm alone is 10 accuracy. One accuracy ring is often 7-8. Tiphia sting is like 2 I believe. And we are still not removing any -perp gear yet. You can get 10 accuracy on the legs slot, which otherwise is at best 1 refresh. Swapping out the head piece loses you another 2 refresh, but grants you some 15 acc or so.

If you just don't mind losing some low speed MP regain, you can get good accuracy for Myrkr Tping. I've still not seen that good selection of haste gear though.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Because I'm the only SMN who mastered the job well enough to figure out how to make the tank build work. Outside of Abyssea, the idea failed. Inside, I was already meleeing IT mobs with my tank build pre-DG. DG was a natural progression for me on a path that you won't be following.

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You were meleeing IT mobs with a tank build? Wait, does SMN even HAVE a tank build? Are you now saying that a SMN can tank better than a PLD?

Of course outside of abyssea the idea will fail, SMNs are not tanks. Besides, you didn't master anything if you have such a narrow minded view of the job that its "my way or highway" attitude towards anyone who isn't you.

Congratulations on meleeing IT mobs, want a cookie? While it would take you what, 3 minutes to kill an IT mob, I can do the same as a non-melee SMN in less than one minute. Good for you! Plus, I wouldn't have to worry about any TP moves either, because the mob dies in less time it take for it to use more than 1 TP move. That's because, well, I'm not feeding it TP like you are.

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You are a nuisance already. I don't want you to bow down to me. I want your presence to reflect your influence.

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I'm here to "dethrone the king" so to say. Although you are not even close to being a serf in anyone's eyes, much less a king.

People still arguing w/Dallas? He's clearly delusional.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

People still arguing w/Dallas? He's clearly delusional.

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For some reason, I thought I could help him see the light. Maybe when enough people tell him how wrong he is into thinking that he can out damage any other job, he might accept that and be quiet.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

People still arguing w/Dallas? He's clearly delusional.

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it's fun to watch him repeatedly make a fool out of himself