HQ king triggers

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

The real problem is that "10%" is with TH8~+ on most all of those kills.

Thats some pretty shitty Drop rate D: Would anyone complain if they upped it to ~20% >_>?

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Even 20% is pretty low considering most of the gear is completely outdated, and the only way to make the gear competitive is via the synergy augments, which is its own set of randomness.

To add to the sample size:
0/14 on KB pops. All had varying levels of TH.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/104...=1#post4623217

Atoreis reports 0/11 on fafnir.

Updated further:
Adamantoise:
Me 2/6, Gwynplaine 5/10, Karb 0/3, Insaniac 0/4, Wiki(+me) 5/13
12/36 30.4%

Fafnir:
Me 0/3 BG 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 1/3, Wiki 3/49, Insaniac 0/11 Gwyn 0/7 Wish12fraand 1/17 Wish12 0/12, Atro 0/11
6/124 4.8%

Behemoth:
Me 0/4, BG 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 0/4, Saca 0/8, Wiki 3/49, Insaniac 1/9, Wish12 0/8, Drhatch 0/14
5/100 5%


Edit: Updated numbers from Wiki.

Seriously? >.>

It's possible we are getting biased reports because the ppl who went 1/1 or 1/4 etc aren't complaining about their droprate.

Need more data really.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

It's possible we are getting biased reports because the ppl who went 1/1 or 1/4 etc aren't complaining about their droprate.

Need more data really.

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seriously? the Data from Nynja yells at me to keep my fingers of the KSNM99 fights until the droprate is uped drasticly ¬.¬

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Originally Posted by Damane

seriously? the Data from Nynja yells at me to keep my fingers of the KSNM99 fights until the droprate is uped drasticly ¬.¬

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Yeah me too, even if it ends up being 15 or 20% it's still way too low compared to what you're spending.

EDIT: Mojo reports 1/21 on KB
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/104...=1#post4623984

My comment on all of this is that you got what you asked for in the early days of this Forum. SE does not ever give something with one hand without taking something else away with the other. It was clearly stated that drop rate for BB items from HQ kings would be reduced from 100%. It was never stated what the drop rate would be adjusted to. We still don't and probably never will know what it is, the best we can hope for is an average.

Nynja: I would like to know how you are obtaining these various triggers. Are you buying Themis Orbs, since from what I am reading you personally don't have KS's to burn, or are you buying the triggers from people who ARE doing the KS99's just for that purpose. Also, please tell me from your personal experience what the drop rate from KS99's are for BB items.

Wyrm Beard in KS99's typically have the highest drop rate, around 30%, the other 2 items are around 24% or less, still, the "luck" factor always plays, no matter which route you take or how high you get TH. I don't know why you're upset either since you have your BB, so what else is it you want from these.........................? Just asking.

I never said I'm out of seals?

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Originally Posted by Nynja

I had 11 KS99 worth of seals on my main, and 2 each on my 2 mules.

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later on...

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Originally Posted by Nynja

I can tell you right now, I'm not wasting my last 500 seals.

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The extra fights I did was with friends of mine who donated Orbs trying for HQ king / Bartered for Orbs.

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Originally Posted by Octaviane

Wyrm Beard in KS99's typically have the highest drop rate, around 30%, the other 2 items are around 24% or less, still, the "luck" factor always plays, no matter which route you take or how high you get TH. I don't know why you're upset either since you have your BB, so what else is it you want from these.........................? Just asking.

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Its upsetting because the drop rate for HQ's are so disgustingly low, considering the drops are mostly all outdated and useless making the fights just e-peen lowman or novelty factor.

lol, so what your saying is, youre complaining about a droprate of an item to pop a mob you dont even care about


mind
blown

D ring ? obviously.

he already said he doesnt care about that cause "its a myth"

so when you take away all the bs and QQing, what you are left with is KB for d ring, and fafnir for ridill, because EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE GOTTEN FROM EINHERJAR (sp), since d ring is a "myth", that leaves fafnir for a ridill, so this entire thread is pointless crying about SE not handing people what they want on a silver platter

personally i would just take the fact that you get to fight ksnm99 and the low quality counterpart GUARANTEED and maybe a hq king as SE moving in the right direction of giving EVERYONE on the server the same chance of fighting these mobs instead of just the select few who have chosen to camp for hours upon hours and days upon days for maybe fighting one of them


yup, sure sounds like SE screwed the pooch on this one

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Originally Posted by Sureal

so this entire thread is pointless crying about SE not handing people what they want on a silver platter

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Just think of Thief knife, just need to QQ a bit more and we'll get what we want.

such an awesome way to look at life, cry enough and get what you want

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Originally Posted by Sureal

such an awesome way to look at life, cry enough and get what you want

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What's a better way to get what we want? Provide a reasonable argument that the current drop rate is too low? We've done that. It doesnt require any skill these days to get these hq king triggers, it just requires tedium. None of these fights are difficult.

If they added a fight that was difficult that had a reasonable drop rate of d.ring then I wouldn't be complaining (not that i'm really complaining). No one wants d.ring on a silver platter, we'd just prefer to not have to swim through an ocean of shit to get it either.

cause it was so much better the old way?

thats what i dont understand about this, yes drop rate sucks, so what, you are still getting a chance you didnt have before, and for those that never camped, this is a godsend

but instead of looking at the brightside, this thread is full of whining and complaining about a drop rate for something that they then turn around and say they dont want, i dont get it, be happy its better than before, it may not be what you want, but until YOU make a game, you have no control persay, no matter what you may want to think, this is still SE's game, so until i see a news headline that says "NYNJA BUYS SE" i will be happy with the changes they have made

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Originally Posted by Sureal

so this entire thread is pointless crying about SE not handing people what they want on a silver platter

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The average number of seals for a d ring right now is 40,000. That is beyond ridiculous and cannot be justified in any way shape or form, silver platter is not required, but being able to actually work towards obtaining a d ring would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

cause it was so much better the old way?

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I hate to admit it, but yes, it was better the old way.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

cause it was so much better the old way?

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You mean back when it luck based and not skill based? Oh wait....

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

I hate to admit it, but yes, it was better the old way.

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this is the correct answer.

except there is one HUGE difference, now everyone has a chance, instead of the select few who decide to camp forever hoping to get a claim

yeah, your right, old way so much better for the population as a whole


and lets not forget, if you are/were on a server that was heavily botted, you now actually have a chance, on bahamut the first NA defending ring came as a server transfer, so yes, i will take 40,000 seal farming over sitting watching someone else fight KB again and again and again

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Originally Posted by Sureal

so when you take away all the bs and QQing, what you are left with is KB for d ring, and fafnir for ridill, because EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE GOTTEN FROM EINHERJAR (sp), since d ring is a "myth", that leaves fafnir for a ridill, so this entire thread is pointless crying about SE not handing people what they want on a silver platter

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I'm so glad you think my desires are that of the other 500,000 who play this game. Because I think D.Ring is a myth, that means everyone thinks its a myth. Two people in my close knit group of 6 actually want a D.Ring, for starters.

Really, it doesnt matter what I say at this point, its clear as day now (yes, that means that you can take your sample sizes, shine em up, turn em sideways, and shove em straight up your roody-poo....) that the drop rates (for KB and Nid atleast) are around 5%. FIVE percent. 1980 Kindred Seals to fight either one of those two. Want to relate it to "days"? KB and Nid are spawning on average of Day 20.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

i will take 40,000 seal farming over sitting watching someone else fight KB again and again and again

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Please do this, and make a blog and share with us how that seal farming + KB hunting is going, as well as how your real life is handling it. I've love to read this.


Well, I dont think any of this matters at this point, everything that needs to be said has been said.

40000 seals at 1 seal every 5 minutes. You can't tell if it's going to be a KS or BS (50/50), so it's actually 1 seal every 10 minutes in an optimal case. Realistically, you'd probably get about 1 seal every 14 minutes even killing the weakest possible monsters that drop KS at the maximum possible rate. If you team up, you're still limited by one seal every 5 minutes.

40,000 KS ~= 400 RL (playtime) days of farming

You're right. This is much better than before, where you wouldn't get the D-ring because you couldn't claim the monster. Now you get to waste over a year worth of RL time farming seals to also not have a D-ring. Improvements abound!

PS. If you can't claim, don't camp on good intentions. That's stupid. My friends and I don't bot, but we also didn't camp because we weren't retarded.

lol why shoud he want a D ring after all, playing full pink armor is already good.
This forum was made exactly for what we'r talking about.
you just trolling too hard.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Now you get to waste over a year worth of RL time farming seals to also not have a D-ring. Improvements abound!

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inb4: well you'd only average 1 D.Ring per year, and atleast this time you can guarantee claim on KB
pre-reply: except camping KB took at most 3 hours per day, with only having to pay attention for at most 10 minutes, instead of farming for 17 hours a day every day.

lack of valid arguments ? childish sentence ? nonsense despit what everyone say ?
yes i think everyone see what kind of guy you are and what you are trying to do.

In biology we almost always go with N < 10 as long as the p value is less than .05. If the data is difficult to obtain (mutant frequency of 1:8 or less) and the system yields a low number of offspring (in mice we average 8 embryos a litter), your p value indicates that your data has less than a 5% probability of occurring by chance, and you have multiple types of experiments that validate your overall hypothesis then your N value is acceptable. Arguing that the sample size is invalid because N is limited by the large time required to generate it doesn't make much sense to me. Sure a larger sample size is always better but you should be able to look at trends before you've finished sampling and form a hypothesis about the outcome.

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

In biology we almost always go with N < 10 as long as the p value is less than .05. If the data is difficult to obtain (mutant frequency of 1:8 or less) and the system yields a low number of offspring (in mice we average 8 embryos a litter), your p value indicates that your data has less than a 5% probability of occurring by chance, and you have multiple types of experiments that validate your overall hypothesis then your N value is acceptable. Arguing that the sample size is invalid because N is limited by the large time required to generate it doesn't make much sense to me. Sure a larger sample size is always better but you should be able to look at trends before you've finished sampling and form a hypothesis about the outcome.

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I have no idea what you just said but I agree.

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aww i love it, your tears make me stronger, and the fact that i dont even have to reply, means you understand what im saying, agree with it, but you just have to cry about something

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I have to say you really are a troll straight and to the point and not a scientist at all perhaps Psuedo-Science is your cup of tea like most people.

The drop rate is bad but to play devils advocate its not like we didn't see that coming.

I have similar results after 26,000 KS worth of pops for my LS we got 2 Black Belts completed and 1/3. Also we found that when we DIDN'T put TH on the NM's we got pops for the Kings almost 100% I think 1 fight we didn't get a HQ pop without TH when someone in my LS said hey lets try this without TH it was his pop so we went for it and HQ Pop then I went and HQ pop, it sounds weird... but it is what it is. Lots of abjurations and of course 0 Ridill's (That at least remains the same <sarcasm>) 26 NQ pops 16 HQ pops 7 total BB Items and 20 or so abjurations of which only 1 was wanted.

Now before the trolls start to post some snide comments do you want me to lay this out in a matrix and prepare a white paper with my results....

Back when kings were random spawns, even against the best bots, if you got 18 random people people together and spammed for claim during windows, you would get at least 1 every week.

Doing this was better odds of getting KB then having those same 18 people farm KS's for 3 hours a day then doing all the NQ's to try and get a KB pop.

now go away Sureal, and just know that you're wrong.

see what happens when you do actual work, you get results

i personally dont care about the drop rate, dont care about the defending ring, dont care about any of it

what i do care about is people bitching and crying about things they havent put in the work to get the real results for, if you dont like that i actually appreciate SE doing SOMETHING after 8 years of the same old crap, well thats your problem, but this still boils down to QQ'ing about not having what you want

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Originally Posted by Sureal

see what happens when you do actual work, you get results

i personally dont care about the drop rate, dont care about the defending ring, dont care about any of it

what i do care about is people bitching and crying about things they havent put in the work to get the real results for, if you dont like that i actually appreciate SE doing SOMETHING after 8 years of the same old crap, well thats your problem, but this still boils down to QQ'ing about not having what you want

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You realize people were QQing about not getting what they want before right? Or do you think adding drops to einherjar just came out of the blue? You think this kings change just came out of the blue also?

Anyone who reads BG knows nynja is an asshole, but he's right this time. Drop rate is too low.

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Originally Posted by SubDragon

Now before the trolls start to post some snide comments do you want me to lay this out in a matrix and prepare a white paper with my results....

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I would, actually. At least present it in a more readable fashion so that it's easier to add to our running tally.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

see what happens when you do actual work, you get results

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You realize the only drops he got were ones you could already get in einherjar or ks99 anyway right?

look, please do not get me wrong, im only going troll mode because im being pushed to it, and honestly i dont care if nynja is an asshole, a saint, or a fucking alien. what i do care about is integrity and due diligence to get the answers you want, and this thread IS starting to go there, and personally id love to see the chart, as i too would like to see the drop rates of everything and whatnot

the problem is, its all this QQing about drop rates, basically over one item, ONE FREAKING ITEM, that honestly while it is a nice ring, the world is not going to end if you dont get it

nynja said earlier that you may see one per year, yeah ONE D RING PER YEAR on a server, not a ls, not a group, but the entire freaking server, and there is all this QQing about ohh it takes too long, really, too long, i dont even....

whether you like the change or not, whether the drop rate is acceptable to you or not, you have to appreciate the changes SE has made to make EVERYTHING more accessable to EVERYONE, im sorry but thats just the way it is, SE is finally listening and has made changes, but since this thread started about 2 days after the update, and only now are we getting the real information, which while it does go inline with what was seen right away, more effort should have been put in before this thread was started, basically it started cause nynja didnt get everything he wanted on his first round of ksnm99's, boo freaking hoo

There were two other threads about this that never took off. This one did. Mostly because of you and nynja going back and forth. Either way it isnt my problem, the horrid drop rate is.

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whether you like the change or not, whether the drop rate is acceptable to you or not, you have to appreciate the changes SE has made to make EVERYTHING more accessable to EVERYONE

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You mean people who want to farm for 400 days straight? The only reason to participate in this new system is because of d.ring and ridill (maybe a few abjurations). Everything else could've been gotten from einherjar (abjurations) or KS99 (BB items)

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Originally Posted by Sureal

nynja said earlier that you may see one per year, yeah ONE D RING PER YEAR on a server, not a ls, not a group, but the entire freaking server, and there is all this QQing about ohh it takes too long, really, too long, i dont even....

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Just to correct this, d ring average is 5%, 1 in 20, KB spawned in just under 7 days on average, so 19 weeks between d rings, so about 2.75 d rings per year was the average, not 1. With the new system it's gonna be 1 every 3 years if it's not fixed, maybe you can see the problem here now?

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Originally Posted by Sureal

and only now are we getting the real information, which while it does go inline with what was seen right away

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funny that

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Originally Posted by Sureal

and only now are we getting the real information, which while it does go inline with what was seen right away

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Thats because you and Catsby were too busy going "WAAAAAH SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES"

Which, upon acquisition of greater sample sizes, demonstrated that my initial claim of 15% was actually HIGHER than was proven to be the actual drop rate. Your desires for SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES only helped my case about the drop rates being FUBAR instead of proving that the initial string was just bad luck and it would balance out to something reasonable.

so what youre saying is, if i get this right, that a larger sample size got you a better answer


hmmm, imagine that

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Originally Posted by Sureal

so what youre saying is, if i get this right, that a larger sample size got you a better answer


hmmm, imagine that

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really :/ ....

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Originally Posted by Sureal

so what youre saying is, if i get this right, that a larger sample size got you a better answer


hmmm, imagine that

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And yet he was making the same point when he had the smaller sample size... funny how the overall trend didn't change.

The sample size was good before this thread was started. It wasn't just his personal opinion, people all over the place had posted their personal results, which, added up, showed that the drop rate was very low, which was the motivation behind this thread in particular.

The fact is, the drop rate is ridiculously low.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

thats what i dont understand about this, yes drop rate sucks, so what, you are still getting a chance you didnt have before, and for those that never camped, this is a godsend

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And this is where your view on the subject differs from many others. Many people believe that people who really want it will camp it. Especially lately this has been easier than ever before. Now the people who wanted to put all their efforts into it got screwed out of their chance, while everyone else now has a comparably bigger chance (because it was 0 before - by choice).

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Originally Posted by Sureal

so what youre saying is, if i get this right, that a larger sample size got you a better answer


hmmm, imagine that

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Youre just flatout trolling now, seriously. You and Catsby were crying about my inadequate sample size saying it doesnt prove anythign and could have been bad luck, and you were throwing every kind of crybaby excuse you could think of trying to dismiss my argument. People spoke up, helped the sample size you were both oh so desperate for, and now instead of going "ok, youre right, the drop rate is worse than projected"...youre still holding on to your same excuses and saying stupid garbage like "haha see I told u u needed a bigger sample size". My initial claims were strong enough, and youre petty desires did absolutely nothing but make you look like a gigantic tool.