[dev1009] Seriously.... how could you make the HNM system worse...

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Originally Posted by thefinalrune

Pretty sure that implies that the kings will pop unclaimed. Boy what a fun voke fest that will become. Why bother camping or seal farming when you can just steal someone else's pop?

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Really? You really just posted that? Troll.

First, I'll start with the point that S/E has mentioned it is looking at adding an item that is something akin to the BB. So, this may change the desire by Monks to fight these mobs in the first place. I would add though, that just like the other previously hard to get gear, the current BB should get the same treatment as things like Byako's Haidate where you can upgrade it to a degree.

Secondly, the drop rate for the BB items has been lowered on the King version. Since the old rate was 100%, I'm going to assume that it would not be an abysmal drop rate. Since, you could achieve the same thing by doing the BCNM in the first place. If the BCNM still drops the items also, then it means you fight 3 mobs for 2 chances at the item.

Finally, it does seem like kind of a weird path to pop these nm's. First, to a BCNM. Then, travel to a zone.

Also, I'm guessing when you pop it, the nm pops claimed. It wouldn't make sense to have it pop any other way.

People were asking for a system that allowed them to get a chance at the Kings. Now you have it. And, you can have a chance to purchase the items like the old days. Watch for shouts in Jueno for the BB items on sale. Undoubtedly, groups of people will do these to sell the items for gil, just like the old days when the HNM shells had to make the claim then shout for buyers who bothered to show for the windows. On top of that, the bonus to the shells is that they don't have to watch stuff drop to the ground because no buyer was in the zone. Now, the shells can gather up their buyers and head to the zones.

Do the sensible thing, make the pop items drop off of darters/valley manticores/elementals for Faf, Adaman, Behemoth respectively. Low drop rate similar to that of Ullikumi pop item in Sky.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Farming for a solid 8 hours (and this assumes optimal drop rate on Kindred Seals - as we all know, nothing is optimal in this game) for a chance at a D. Ring, given it's known drop rate - not bloody likely.

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Waiting for 24 hours for it to pop seems unlikely too, but people did so.

I think the biggest issue with tis is the work of camping the monster in a 3hr window for the item is relatively little. the work to kill a KS99, Kill an NQ and then kill the HQ is a little much for the chance at a belt item or a dring. I could see a justification in doing this if they increased the drop rate on items like riddle and dring and spiar. or if they added better items to the KS99s the NQs and like I said upped drop rates on the HQs. This does seem like an excuse to make people spend more of their time farming kindred seals that drop with a shared value and a unique value in the treasure pool with four other items, which are just as useless, after this update they'll be more useless. I wouldn't complain if I could take say 50 crests or 10 H crests and get a 99 orb, that'd be equa effort as camping in my opinion. keep in mind this is coming from someone who's camped KB for 8 months straight without seeing a D ring drop, no job no school, 24/7 LS.

I'd rather camp the NQs with the mnk, solo them on my mnk (less fafnir, solo that on pld) then take a whm or something else along for the HQ window or ask them to show up.

final note I HOPE THEY GIVE US BETTER ITEMS OR BETTER DROP RATES ON THE NONE BLACK BELT ITEMS WITH THIS OR IT WOULD SEEM MORE OF A HASSLE THAN ITS WORTH TO DO IT MULTIPLE TIMES FOR ONE MONK.

also, the dan go black belt, will require a black belt, enjoy~

they could include a 100% drop to this for the voidwalkers or w/e, at the moment it still doesn't seem worth it

they should also give us like a 5% drop rate like that ACP item off normal mobs and give us a 25% drop rate off the monsters in zone (TH not affecting)

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Do the sensible thing, make the pop items drop off of darters/valley manticores/elementals for Faf, Adaman, Behemoth respectively. Low drop rate similar to that of Ullikumi pop item in Sky.

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Now this is what I was hoping they would do!

this change is really lame.. espeically the fact that se is removing the bb items from the baby versions AND decreasing it on kings... wtf se? should have just left it alone at that point..

Its good to see that other people realize that the Effort =/= the Reward on this system

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Farming for a solid 8 hours (and this assumes optimal drop rate on Kindred Seals - as we all know, nothing is optimal in this game) for a chance at a D. Ring, given it's known drop rate - not bloody likely.

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As it is right now, I have no chance at a Defending Ring (except for Bonanza maybe). And this new system doesn't sound like a small chance, it sounds like an incredible chance, or at least an incredible improvement in overall drop rate. Right now there's what, 1 Defending Ring a year? What are the chances of you obtaining it? This may require 8 hours of effort, may even require 100 hours of effort, it would still greatly improve your chances. 100 hours to get a 5% chance for the drop, compare that with right now, ~100 hour average spawn (optimistically speaking), 50% claim chance (as if), 5% drop rate, 20% lot chance (vs. 4 people.. as if). That means you'll get a Defending Ring after roughly 20,000 hours. Assuming this new system takes a 100 hours effort (farming + KS99 fight + several NQ fights, which is still a pessimistic estimate), 5% drop rate, that's a Defending Ring after 2,000 hours. Even with these ridiculous estimates, the new system is 10 times better than the old. And you don't have to lot against others, because everyone can bring their own trig. No outlotting, no claimwars, that will increase your chances drastically.

The only thing I dislike is farming stuff for countless hours, personally I prefer lazy camping, even if there's less chance of obtaining an item. I'm a bit disappointed that the countless of anti-grinding threads, especially promoted by Abyssea, seem to have fallen on deaf ears at the development team. I can even see BB items increasing in drop rate, unless the new drop rate is incredibly low (like 10% for or something).

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Do the sensible thing, make the pop items drop off of darters/valley manticores/elementals for Faf, Adaman, Behemoth respectively. Low drop rate similar to that of Ullikumi pop item in Sky.

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I would prefer that also, but if you think about i, people would be claimbotting those 24/7. Would be worse than ground kings pre-Abyssea.

In any case, unless the new trigger/item droprates are really low, it should increase the drop rate overall. It may be more annoying to obtain, but it's faster and easier, and not as many frustrations for getting outclaimed after camping for three hours straight for three days.

What I see in every one of these threads is 3 types of people:

1) People who look at each change and decide whether the change is good, bad, or not really either.

2) People who aren't satisfied unless the game reverts to the way it was pre-Abyssea, complete with all the ridiculous roadblocks

3) People who want to log in and be given level 99 on all jobs, plus all their equipment, and all quests, missions, and mobs must be solo-able (a slight exaggeration)

It pretty much means that not matter what the change, there will be mass whining from at least one group. Because, the extreme ends of the spectrum will not take the time to look at each change for both the positive and negative aspects.

At this point, I'm all for any change that makes the two extremes cry out in pain at the same time.

I think you'll find, Arcon, the new system is a lot worse. Not only do you have to farm seals for 8-10 hours, but in addition to this you have to find the motivation to do it. That's going to be the hard part.

Sitting my character in a zone for 3 hours once a day is much easier, and gets much better results than 8-10 hours of monotonous grinding against EP/TWs

I thought the whole idea with SE lately was to spend more time away from the game, ie, AFK leeching in Abyssea, 1-90 in 2-3 days, etc etc. Now they want us to sit and farm for 8-10 hours for what is going to arguably be gear that is even more redundant once this update hits than it is now?

People argued against the HNM system, got the change they wanted. Can't say I'm particularly pleased with it - and I bet the ones who argued for this change aren't pleased either.

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Originally Posted by Snaplin

That doesn't mean shit... Who has the time to sit and farm KS's off retarded mobs to get people to drag them out to a KS99 to kill for a pop to pop a NQ to pop an HQ to do that all over... At least the time was spanned over HQ/NQ days. People cried about 3hours... congrats spending even more time trying to get a pop for a effing HNM that's going to be 10x more pain in the ass to get an item off of.

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Honestly, I fail to see the problem... if you want a Black belt, do what you need to do to acquire the freakin item... last time I looked FFXI was and still is an MMO... Massively Multiplayer Online game... time sinks are where its at. Granted... the current development team has been more than generous (for obvious reasons) as to decrease the time sinks across the board for a g-enormous amount of things (quests, missions, items etc)... this item... the ever uber Black Belt is one which I can't possibly see them making "easy to get"... until something else trumps this item; I say, "WORK for it." If you REALLY REALLY want it... put on your gloves and do the work. Get people to help you if need be.. but to sit back and whine about having to farm kindred seals, pleassssee... /wrist

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Originally Posted by Arcon

As it is right now, I have no chance at a Defending Ring (except for Bonanza maybe). And this new system doesn't sound like a small chance, it sounds like an incredible chance, or at least an incredible improvement in overall drop rate. Right now there's what, 1 Defending Ring a year? What are the chances of you obtaining it? This may require 8 hours of effort, may even require 100 hours of effort, it would still greatly improve your chances. 100 hours to get a 5% chance for the drop, compare that with right now, ~100 hour average spawn (optimistically speaking), 50% claim chance (as if), 5% drop rate, 20% lot chance (vs. 4 people.. as if). That means you'll get a Defending Ring after roughly 20,000 hours. Assuming this new system takes a 100 hours effort (farming + KS99 fight + several NQ fights, which is still a pessimistic estimate), 5% drop rate, that's a Defending Ring after 2,000 hours. Even with these ridiculous estimates, the new system is 10 times better than the old. And you don't have to lot against others, because everyone can bring their own trig. No outlotting, no claimwars, that will increase your chances drastically.

The only thing I dislike is farming stuff for countless hours, personally I prefer lazy camping, even if there's less chance of obtaining an item. I'm a bit disappointed that the countless of anti-grinding threads, especially promoted by Abyssea, seem to have fallen on deaf ears at the development team. I can even see BB items increasing in drop rate, unless the new drop rate is incredibly low (like 10% for or something).



I would prefer that also, but if you think about i, people would be claimbotting those 24/7. Would be worse than ground kings pre-Abyssea.

In any case, unless the new trigger/item droprates are really low, it should increase the drop rate overall. It may be more annoying to obtain, but it's faster and easier, and not as many frustrations for getting outclaimed after camping for three hours straight for three days.

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QFT... finally someone who understands that this change is a welcome relief to a system which is outdated and to this day, has ousted anyone who has a full-time job, or go to school full-time and can't devote 24-72 hours sitting in the game waiting for a mob to spawn only to have it taken away by a botter... come-on people--this system is akin to what SE is doing to address RMT-fishing schemes... it will require work on the part of the person/persons who REALLY want the items that drop but guess what...you'll finally get a chance. Prior to this, you DON'T have a snowball's chance in hell, now you do... /cheers!

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Originally Posted by Randwolf

What I see in every one of these threads is 3 types of people:

1) People who look at each change and decide whether the change is good, bad, or not really either.

2) People who aren't satisfied unless the game reverts to the way it was pre-Abyssea, complete with all the ridiculous roadblocks

3) People who want to log in and be given level 99 on all jobs, plus all their equipment, and all quests, missions, and mobs must be solo-able (a slight exaggeration)

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im not either of them, i just think they're fixing a working system by throwing a rabid monkey at it, yes it could use some improvements, but when people stopped camping these monsters after abyssea came out, they did that because the abjurations were no long worth buying the cursed gear for. if they really wanted to change things up, give them new items and a shorter spawn window, give us an HQ ever 3 hours, you'd still have a lot of people not camping it, or better yet, slightly increase drop rates and change it like dynamis, dont make the players farm stuff for the same or worse drop rate so they can NPC a lot of junk that they made obsolete by adding them into gold chests

Ok first let me say that, as someone who hates sitting around for 3 hours, I like their idea. I never really joined a HNM LS (unless friends in one invited me a long with their LS). So while I understand this process takes a bit more actually effort (since you can't bot anymore if you were a botter), it gives people like me a chance to fight things we've never fought before. Yeah I've fought Adamantoise (in Nyzul and VoS), Behemoth (Nyzul only), and Fafnir (Nyzul only), but I've never had the pleasure of fighting the HQ forms of these.

As for Black Belt seekers, I kind of understand being upset about them removing those items from the drop pool of the NQ versions, but nothing was said to indicate those items would be removed from the KS99 fights, so with more people probably wanting to do those, you still have pretty good hope. Also, to make the Black Belt any easier to obtain than it is right now would take away something I think. I mean, no other melee job has a belt that's even on par with it.

Finally, for all we know, with the introduction of the Kindred's Crest and HKC storage system, they may also introduce a system in which we can trade these like we do with Imperial Coins. 1 HKC = 5 KC; 1 KC = 5 KS; 1 KS = 5 BS - that seems the most reasonable to me. We just don't know what other crazy things they have coming down the pipe.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

I think you'll find, Arcon, the new system is a lot worse. Not only do you have to farm seals for 8-10 hours, but in addition to this you have to find the motivation to do it. That's going to be the hard part.

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I know, and I definitely agree, that's why I said I wasn't really too happy about it personally. I absolutely hate grinding, it's why I won't ever bother with an empyrean weapon, I don't like the idea of mindlessly killing mobs every 5min for some stupid seals, especially with my permanent inventory issues.

But overall I think most people won't mind. I really don't know why, but many people seem to be rather content with the grinding system, just look at all the people doing ridiculous trials, kill 500 mobs in weather, kill 600 without, etc., I think many people will embrace that system. Who knows, maybe even they will get tired of it eventually, but I'm pretty sure we'll see the number of Defending Rings go up drastically soon, and that will help motivate more people.

I guess SE relies on grinding to extend this game's lifetime, if people want a Defending Ring, that will keep them busy for days and weeks, possibly months, same (but to lower extent) goes for Black Belt items. It's the only explanation I can come up with why they're doing something like this.

I honestly don't know what to think of it, it's the trade off between tons of effort vs. tons of luck. It may sound stupid, but I was always more of an advocate for the luck category, although if possible I would prefer tons of challenge instead. But that's something SE has been ignoring for some time now.

I know I'll blow the Kindred's Seals I have on this, see how far it gets me, but I doubt it'll be enough for a Defending Ring. Let's just see how this turns out.

See that bright red ribbon on the horizon? It's comprised entirely of angry monks without Black Belts who are now carrying torches. Some DEV clarification (and/or re-thought) on the fate of the three items most people care about from the Ground Kings would be a good idea.

I'm sorry but all i see is ppl qqing that drops aren't being handed to em. But hey, you guys all cried about not wanting to fight for claim over HNM, there you go. You have just made it even more inconvenient and ruined sentimental value for Defending Ring since now everyone will be popping KB. But with this move i have a strong feeling that new kings with 21hr to 24hr will be added at Lv99 to replace old kings.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

I'm sorry but all i see is ppl qqing that drops aren't being handed to em. But hey, you guys all cried about not wanting to fight for claim over HNM, there you go. You have just made it even more inconvenient and ruined sentimental value for Defending Ring since now everyone will be popping KB. But with this move i have a strong feeling that new kings with 21hr to 24hr will be added at Lv99 to replace old kings.

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Now this is something I would just love to see. And more than just three, want more real NMs to fight.

I can't believe you guys are seriously complaining about this, you can get KS off any mob 50+ and with a 90 you could go to Monastic caverns and pick up enough in about an hour. Crests drop so much I've been throwing them all away for the last 2 months (and I still have 10 stacks of normal and 3 stacks of HQ saved just in case they ever get useful). I love this change. Now maybe someone on Caitsith will get a chance to get Behemoth instead of (I think) Amonk and his LS, I've got leather to make and I refuse to reward these monopolists with my $, so I get my mats from other sources (or simply do synths that don't involve behemoth parts).

For that matter-prepare for a revolutionary concept-level a lower level job and get your seals the old-fashioned way, by earning them! This is especially easy if you solo (I'm currently sitting on 1300 KS with the Storage NPC, and that's with frequently tossing the things in the field if I get a drop that's worth more than 100 gil to NPC and need the space), since everything that drops is yours. Bust out your thief, put on a crow's set, head to monastic caverns and go nuts.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

I think you'll find, Arcon, the new system is a lot worse. Not only do you have to farm seals for 8-10 hours, but in addition to this you have to find the motivation to do it. That's going to be the hard part.

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if you cant motivate yourself to do it then imo you dont deserve the final item. granted you can pay the gil to get it, being the easy way out, but as i said if you cant be assed to motivate yourself you dont deserve it

fail fail fail.... if u dont have 99 K seals and a regular trustworthy group to do them with your screwed....
i prefer to play with a nice small group of 3-4 friends and most of these NM's are able to be camped with this nice small group.... why not just reduce the spawn times
not like hnm's even bother with these camps anymore anyways why mess up something the normal person / group can finally farm ... at 90 who wants to sit around for 9 hours farming seals when can be camping nm's doing magian trials etc....

Wow. Just wow. Really, the fact that now you don't have to compete with HNMLSs anymore has everyone complaining now? I'm glad they did it like this. Is it worse then before? In a sense, yes and no. Yes in the sense that its harder to get because you need to get 99 KS > NQ > HQ for a chance at BB item (since it seems that is all everyone cares about). No in that you can slowly work up to it instead of being forced to wake up in the middle of the night for window, or missing out on the item cause you cant make it during its day time pop. No more competing with HNMLSs. And to the people who complain about the reduced drop rate of BB items, you do realize the item in question is undisputedly the best belt in the game? The items SHOULD be hard to get. So really, just suck it up, and farm the KSs (which as some people have said, is not that hard) and eventually you will get it.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

with a 90 you could go to Monastic caverns and pick up enough in about an hour.

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Try it and you'll quickly see why this doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by darkvision

if you cant motivate yourself to do it then imo you dont deserve the final item. granted you can pay the gil to get it, being the easy way out, but as i said if you cant be assed to motivate yourself you dont deserve it

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That's your opinion. My opinion is you don't deserve it if you can't beat a challenge. Mindlessly collecting 99 items that drop every 5min at best is not my idea of a challenge, it's just tedious, as is every single trial out there. It's a system that was designed to stretch out FFXI's lifetime by endless monotony.

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Originally Posted by ShadowHeart

if u dont have 99 K seals and a regular trustworthy group to do them with your screwed....
i prefer to play with a nice small group of 3-4 friends

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While, in general, I agree with your sentiment, I'm guessing you can also do KS99s with a group of 3~4 people by now. I didn't try since level 80, but even then it was a lot easier.

Done turtle KS99 at lvl85 and destroyed it on ~4-6 mins its not all that hard now, that was with 10 mages and 2 DD

This isn't a bad idea. Everyone complains and cries about the amount of people who have aby-burned all their jobs to 90. aby-burn to 90 = no KS. The number of people who are getting BB items and are skilling H2H in the dunes is ridiculous. I was actually asked by a 90 THF the other day how to get to the boyahda tree. I remember trying to compete against some botting jerkoff for KB on Remora just to make an ATTEMPT at getting black belt items. It's a countermeasure put in place to force you to interact with the game outside of abyssea. How is that a bad thing? I for one don't want to have to play WoW in a ffxi format. Putting some time and effort into something isn't that big of a deal. If you have the time to camp the HNM, then you have time to get 99 KS, which btw you can get in terrigan without getting any kindred crests. Not too hard. Just makes the NM's obtainable by people who don't work a job irl then get fired to draw unemployment and camp.

why not make it so it pops sooner? really waste ur time farming 99 k seals to camp a NM that used to spawn for free...
there been times recently where behemoth and KB have just been sitting there and people havent killed it for a while on my server this only fixes the QQ of the monks

too us old timers who have done all our jobs to 75+ before abbyssea and love the fun of the camp which was the initial ideas of ffxi just now contours to the WOW QQ babies

why not just have it so u trade 99 kseals to npc get pop item and go do ur thing double fight with bunch people u don't know or like ain't too fun for me

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Originally Posted by Gadanae

Umm.... not trying to be a jerk here but how does it cause MORE congestion in Abyssea zones when MORE mobs are being added that drop the items?? What we have is congestion now..... I personally hate having to basically fight for mobs for seals. Sorry, but what you are saying here is preposterous in my opinion.

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Because said congestion is for contested mobs involving empyrean weapons turning Gukumatz's spawn area into Dragon's Aery circa 2007. But sure I guess you're right, maybe now I'll have one or two less full pink dancers camping Gukumatz.

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Originally Posted by Donwu

This isn't a bad idea. Everyone complains and cries about the amount of people who have aby-burned all their jobs to 90. aby-burn to 90 = no KS. The number of people who are getting BB items and are skilling H2H in the dunes is ridiculous. I was actually asked by a 90 THF the other day how to get to the boyahda tree. I remember trying to compete against some botting jerkoff for KB on Remora just to make an ATTEMPT at getting black belt items. It's a countermeasure put in place to force you to interact with the game outside of abyssea. How is that a bad thing? I for one don't want to have to play WoW in a ffxi format. Putting some time and effort into something isn't that big of a deal. If you have the time to camp the HNM, then you have time to get 99 KS, which btw you can get in terrigan without getting any kindred crests. Not too hard. Just makes the NM's obtainable by people who don't work a job irl then get fired to draw unemployment and camp.

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I have leveled all my jobs before abyssea but I also used up most of my KS before in various KS99s and since abyssea (the only content that matters right now) I have gotten no KS. Abyssea already being a huge time sink with farming seals, +2 items, and emp weapon items there just isn't time to work on farming other mobs too for KS.

Camping an HNM is a lot less time investment than farming KS. Once you have the tod for an hnm you only have to pay attention for ~1 min every 30 mins for at most 7 windows. In between (as I am sure most people do) you can do other things be it crafting or doing something else more productive outside of the game. Forcing people to have to spend hours to farm one KS99 pop, then time to gather a group to kill the KS99 is a much greater time sink than just camping for a few hours a day. While it may make it more convenient for some people, it is a real pain to others that are just trying to obtain the item they want in a reasonable timespan.

I think the general idea for this is a decent idea (possibly make it easy to buy BB items) but the use of KS make it poorly implemented. Maybe if you could get pop items from KC bcnms as well as KS99s it would be more worthwhile especially if they want to use synergy to make this old gear worth getting again.

As I used to say. SE are finally getting down to those suggestions sent in 2004. I'm sure poppable Fafnirs were plentiful then.

Personally I think it sounds like another SEA. A system you'll notice is just not worth doing until they update it.

Trigger conditions for following notorious monsters will be adjusted to spawn by trading specific items to the “???” in the respective area.

Fafnir / Nidhogg: Dragon’s Aery
Behemoth / King Behemoth: Behemoth’s Dominion
Adamantoise / Aspidochelone: Valley of Sorrows

now won't it be fun to get the pop item and fafnir spawning instead of nihdogg as it says the BB items been removed from fafnir drops LOL

The treasures dropped by the following notorious monsters will be adjusted as follows:

Fafnir : Wyrm Beard removed
Nidhogg : Drop rate of Wyrm Beard decreased
Behemoth : Behemoth Tongue removed
King Behemoth : Drop rate of Behemoth Tongue decreased
Adamantoise : Adamantoise Egg removed
Aspidochelone : Drop rate of Adamantoise Egg decreased

lets see how happy people will be getting the wrong NM random spawn wasting 99 Kseals on trigger lol

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Originally Posted by ShadowHeart

now won't it be fun to get the pop item and fafnir spawning instead of nihdogg as it says the BB items been removed from fafnir drops LOL

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What? I think you misread the DEV post.

How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

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Originally Posted by Arcon

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Originally Posted by Darkvision

if you cant motivate yourself to do it then imo you dont deserve the final item. granted you can pay the gil to get it, being the easy way out, but as i said if you cant be assed to motivate yourself you dont deserve it

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That's your opinion. My opinion is you don't deserve it if you can't beat a challenge. Mindlessly collecting 99 items that drop every 5min at best is not my idea of a challenge, it's just tedious, as is every single trial out there. It's a system that was designed to stretch out FFXI's lifetime by endless monotony.

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Actually no, it's a fact. If you don't want to put in the effort you don't get a Black Belt. The challenge is farming your seals and doing the NM's. It's quite simple.

I laughed. You all whine and complain how it should be force popped (even though on my server these things sometimes sit up for hours) and now you complain its unfair. Did you honestly think an item to pop fafnir would drop off a darter or something even triggers for gods drop off NM's. Now instead of sitting in aery for 3hrs you can farm for 8hrs 15Mins (more like 34hrs since it shares with up to 4 other spots in the pool and lets face it its not going to drop every 5mins exactly) for a KS 99 to pop a fafnir for a chance at fighting nidhogg which will drop your belt as for BB item at a reduced rate and these items have to take up some spot in the pool from KS99 so i would not be shocked at all if it takes that spot for the BB item as a chance at a 2nd trigger (since by the way it looks it MIGHT drop more than 1). AND YOU GET TO DO THIS ALL 3 TIMES YAYAYAYAY


So realistically if they keep the odds of fafnir dropping an nidhogg pop as it is for it spawning (1/4-8) you have a ~20% shot at MAYBE getting your trigger for a CHANCE at your fight for BB \(^-^)/ (About 170hrs or more of KS farming) so if its 50% drop rate from the HQ king and you need to do it 3x thats about 1020HRS (42.5 days straight or 127.5 days at 8hrs per day) (thats time spent working on farming seals not counting sleep work gathering people FOR the fights doing the fights and such pure farming KS) per black belt ^.~

tl:dr
enjoy this hole you dug yourselves glad I got my crap before this change

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Originally Posted by KigenAngelios

This is probably the worst way to go about it. I get wanting to limit the amount of spamming of these HNMs but seriously you are making doing these HNMs exponentially difficult to do partially because of the fact that most high level players are no longer obtaining Kindred Seals.

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And you think that wasn't the point of all this?

WAH WAH WAH, I can't use my bots to deny other players this content, WAH WAH FREAKING WAH... Most people who do this content have no business in this freaking game!

GO SCREW!!

Seriously.

The whole intent of this was to blow up the process as it currently was, and I'm glad they are doing something about it (years too late -- and still not enough!) to start denying the people who SHOULD be denied content the content.

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Originally Posted by KigenAngelios

Also are the trophy items being removed from the KS99 BCs? Do the NQ Kings drop HQ King pop items all the time (ie 100%)? All of this on top of making black belt harder to get by taking away the 100% from the HQs.This system is so convoluted now - pop-HNM are worse. Is there any upside? Will Ridill and Defending ring and Abj. be 100% now?

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Who said there has to be an upside, rather than making these situations non-bottable...

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Actually no, it's a fact. If you don't want to put in the effort you don't get a Black Belt. The challenge is farming your seals and doing the NM's. It's quite simple.

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You're presuming that people who have the stuff actually wanted to put in the effort.

Stop that -- you're not in the Japanese forums.

I think it's a step in the right direction. Hopefully there are modifications to the monsters involved in the system as well. I always remember having a harder time fighting with the KSNMs than the world spawns and it would be awesome to see a increase in challenge as you go through the new system.

This thread go real stupid when i went to bed >____>

I particularly enjoyed one person complaining "WE GET A CHANCE TO POP <NM> AND A CHANCE TO GET D.RING"

As opposed to Getting a CHANCE at NQ behemoth, or a CHANCE at HQ behemoth, for a CHANCE to Claim it, for a CHANCE at Dring?

Oh boy. You guys crack me up.

God help me, I don't care if i get a Brain Tumor for reading all these posts, I just can't help myself.

I'll admit i didn't read every post, but i agree w/ the OP on the point that i don't think this is going to help anything. I cannot get 6 people together to do a KS 30 let alone 18 or so for KS 99. What i will say is that the 1 KS BS or KC in pool per pt is bullshit, i have a Screeny of 4 KC's in pool in an EXP alliance in abyssea - mis coast, if no one believes me. I took it with my camera because i can't figure out how to get the damn things off my pc. This was before, as you can see, they changed the look of the KC.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...0/100_0933.jpg
Proof positive ^.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Actually no, it's a fact. If you don't want to put in the effort you don't get a Black Belt. The challenge is farming your seals and doing the NM's. It's quite simple.

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No point arguing over defnitions. There's no rule about having to work for your rewards. How do you explain Mog Bonanza then? A cosmological injustice?