I would really love the devs to give some insight as to why geo is allowed to break the game in half.
To the devs: Why won't you nerf Geomancer?
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12-26-2016, 12:55 AMShiyo
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12-26-2016, 04:23 AMOmnysValefor
People act like this game hasn't depended on support jobs since Bard's inception.
The difference between having a bard, or eventually cor, and not having one or three was quite often the decision between win/loss and that was back when gear haste was a token stat and mp was as precious as gold. -
12-26-2016, 08:42 AMDomilleNo ones forgotten, but those days are over. The game has gone so casual. The same rules don't apply anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmnysValefor
Gimmicks are the only thing that stops everyone from doing everything in game. -
12-26-2016, 09:14 AMJin_UzukiThis doesn't mean anything. The game changed, but a lot of things stayed the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
Should we also complain about the fact that we need a WHM for every advanced boss? What about Tanks? Supports are integral to FFXI battle system for advanced content. Well, stats buffing support like BRD/COR/GEO are. Only BRD is lagging behind.
You don't need a GEO to do most "casual" content. You don't even need support to begin with! -
12-26-2016, 10:13 AMShiyoYou didn't require a bard to land debuffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmnysValefor
You didn't require a bard to not die to AOE/not get perpetually aoe statused.
A bard didn't auto-cap your pdif or remove 100% of the enemies magical defenses. -
12-26-2016, 10:50 AMDomilleGeo is a self full filling cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
You HAVE to take GEO because GEO exists. ALL mobs have extra def/att/macc/mab/hp BECAUSE GEO exists. Every mob is designed with certain numbers in mind, then they have to double those numbers for every single one, because if they don't they'll die in 5 seconds.
GEO completely ruined the balance. (not that it was great to begin with).
Even for low content if you don't take GEO you're only slowing yourself down. -
12-26-2016, 11:51 PMJin_Uzuki
This doesn't make much sense to me. If they felt GEO was too powerful in term of endgame, they would have adjusted it by the time Reisejima and Escha came out. They wouldn't have designed 50+ end game mobs so you can only do it with GEO.
You can replace GEO here with BRD and COR and it would be the same in this case. Supports jobs always make things faster. It's the whole point of them!Quote:
Even for low content if you don't take GEO you're only slowing yourself down.
I feel like a lot of frustration here come from the fact people cannot find support jobs (especially on less populated servers). -
12-27-2016, 01:21 AMShiyo
I don't think anyone has a problem dual boxing a geo and presing 2-3 buttons every few minutes.
if you honestly think a bard or cor adds ANYWHERE near the damage or survivability that a geo does....
I don't know what to say. -
12-27-2016, 02:04 AMJin_Uzukilol people have been dualing support jobs since the dawn of time. You may want to try another argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
Sounds like GEO is doing his job as a support job. Good job GEO! Hit me up when GEO starts to solo Escha and Reisejima mobs.Quote:
if you honestly think a bard or cor adds ANYWHERE near the damage or survivability that a geo does....
I don't know what to say.
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12-27-2016, 02:25 AMElexiaYou needed a BRD and COR to do as much damage as fast as possible in most content though because you didn't have the benefit of temporary stat boots through items or passive effects like vorseals. I'm guessing you started playing post Abyssea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
Because the content designed between 2002-2009 wasn't exactly AoE heavy, however they did indeed enjoy their AoE/conal debuffs. Sure enemies had nasty AoE moves, but uh....Utsusemi was a thing for a reason for certain jobs if they were always going to be in melee range until SE started designing NMs to ignore/completely wipe shadows. It wasn't until abyssea and after did SE move towards "everything AoE wrecks your face" but don't pretend the game didn't rely on support jobs pre-Geomancer or you must have been in some terrible linkshells lol.Quote:
You didn't require a bard to not die to AOE/not get perpetually aoe statused
And thus the content wasn't developed with that in mind...hence the extreme difference in design pre-ilvl and post ilvl content design. Let's put it this way - If we could do 10-99k damage just like that ontop of being far more self-reliant due to ilvl gear back in the days of sky/sea/einherjar/salvage do you honestly believe things wouldn't have been designed much, much differently?Quote:
A bard didn't auto-cap your pdif or remove 100% of the enemies magical defenses.
1. COR was never designed to "add survivability", it's core design was to enhance you "based on jobs" as it's unique feature over BRD, but having both was crucial in older content, especially if you had a good COR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
2. COR/BRD are different designs from geomancer. Though even back then, if BRD and COR did the exact same things, why would you take both and either/or? So yes, every support lags behind Geomancer when comparing them simply because Geomancer, as said, was developed in the "new" XI, so a lot of older designs simply need to be brought up to speed.
The same argument can be made during any time period of XI. You could do x without y job but you'll only be hindering yourself.
As for "every monster was redesigned because of Geomancer" every future monster and NM/boss will be designed based around ilvl and geomancer, sure, but they didn't retrofit every monster and nm in the game because of it. Me taking a friend through older content didn't suddenly turn into absolute hell because SE skyrocketed the defense and HP etc of older bosses. CoP was still the same cakewalk it's always been post lvl-cap being removed and even more so with the introduction of ilvl gear and JP.
It's silly that people want to hate on Geo for essentially being a support job..then again BRDs did hate on COR when they got introduced because they could support AND do damage, but brds were still the better puller. -
12-27-2016, 05:26 AMNyarlko
The importance of GEO has more to do with how they dealt with 100+ content than the job itself. Since there doesn't seem to be any evidence contrary to a linear level-based stat increase system for mobs, (EX: acc+34 required per mob level over yours,) the differences between older support role jobs like BRD/COR/RDM become painfully obvious in direct comparison in higher level content. SE has always had the bad design habit of addressing job mechanic issues with equipment rather than actual job adjustments, so the older jobs (who have primarily static value based buffs) just ended up lagging further and further behind as player/mob stats continuously climbed while their unchanged mechanics (with occasional small boosts from equipment) provided less and less overall benefit.
GEO's bubbles that have direct comparisons/overlap with other supports are percentage based rather than static, so they naturally scale along with player power increases. Once upon a time, Madrigal's/Minuet's static values provided a sizable increase to accuracy/attack when viewed as a percentage of what players were able to attain. Player stats have skyrocketed compared to pre-ilvl days though and the percentage increase that those unchanged static values provide now are much smaller percentages which pale in comparison to what a moderately geared GEO (Dunna) can provide. Toss Idris into the mix and there's no way possible to compete. This is not a flaw with GEO, it's a flaw with the other support jobs.
The modern game is not being designed around GEO. GEO is just designed for the modern game. The older jobs aren't and are suffering for that. This is not an issue of "GEO is Over Powered", its an issue of "Non-GEO support jobs are Under Powered." The solution is not to nerf GEO, it's to buff the other supports to competitive level. If nerfs are needed after that has happened, then we ask for nerfs at that point.
Nerfing GEO with the current state of the game though would be a textbook example of "cutting off your nose to spite your face." It would provide zero benefit to anyone and hinder most groups, so what is the purpose for even asking for nerfs right now?
The old content also did not normally have to account for haste capped melees. ^^;; I have the distinct impression that most players (and possibly the devs) ignore the impact that the increase in TP fed to mobs by delay capped melees with sky-high multiattack rates has had on TP move usage. Even if an old mob had some sort of super nasty AOE, it would take FIVE DDs to match the baseline TP fed by only ONE modern melee w/ 80% delay reduction. That means that they are getting fed TP at 500% of the old rate. And that means that what would have been a 10sec delay between TP moves with 3x DDs pounding away is now a 2sec delay and basically firing off back-to-back (and likely to be less than 1sec once multiattack is taken into account.) Would the majority of current gen nasty AOEs be anywhere near as annoying/dangerous if there was actually time for a WHM to clear off at least 1-2 debuffs on everyone between moves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
That was a bit of a tangent, but still leads back to why GEO is dominating the support spot in groups... When we don't have access to any other effective means of defense (in part because the older supports simply can't provide enough to matter much in the upper clvl world,) the one support job that is capable of providing anything worthwhile will of become the default/go-to option over those who can't. Which leads back to "Don't nerf GEO, BUFF other supports to match." It's fine if there are differences in what each job brings to group content, but there is a problem when the choice is not a matter of tactics but basic functionality. -
12-27-2016, 05:36 PMSiviard
Ok, I'm seriously confused by all this.
First off, this is the player in question here, Kiaru of Valefor. http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kiaru
This person has THF NIN DNC RNG and SCH at Lv. 99. All of which BENEFIT from having a Geomancer in a party. Yet, this person seems to have some sort of extreme hatred towards GEO. Why is this? Did a Geomancer steal candy from you as a child? Did a Geomancer bully you in Middle School? Or maybe something more serious? A Geomancer robbed you at gunpoint? Please help me understand why you hate GEO so when the jobs you have at 99 all benefit greatly from being in a group with a GEO. -
12-27-2016, 06:09 PMDomille
Ah, well, name one job that DOESNT benefit from a GEO. Even a GEO benefits from another GEO. That's the problem with GEO.
You won't find anyone even on trivial content not wanting a GEO.
Do you need a geo for ambuscade? Absolutely not. will you see one in every. single. party. Absolutely. Half of them are running double GEO.
Hell the Frog was IMMUNE to GEO and every single party still had one. -
12-27-2016, 10:32 PMShiyoWhere are the forum mods?Quote:
Originally Posted by Siviard
Literally personal attacks + petty finding an outdated profile on another site and trying to use it as an ad hominem attack that has nothing to do with the discussion.
Mods? Hello? -
12-27-2016, 10:59 PMElexiaCorsair's benefit from Corsairs and BRDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
Do you see how what you said makes no sense? That isn't a "problem" - the problem here is just hating on Geomancer. It's funny how people initially said Geomancer would be worthless and no one would like them (especially because of how bad the initial wave of Geomancers were on Seeker's launch) now people are trying to get them nerfed into oblivion.
You mean like how people wouldn't be caught dead without a RDM/BRD/COR back in the day..?Quote:
You won't find anyone even on trivial content not wanting a GEO.
It's still a support job.Quote:
Hell the Frog was IMMUNE to GEO and every single party still had one.
I'll be blunt: There must be something in Valefor's water to make the hate for Geomancer this severe...or there must only be 4 Geomancers on that server and people just can't have one for their party.
Your profile is up to date up until they ended support for LS community site. It wasn't a personal attack and it does pertain to the current discussion. You want Geomancer nerfed, however, all of the jobs you play benefits from Geomancer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
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12-27-2016, 11:56 PMJin_UzukiBST burns in Reisejima!Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
Your message works if you replace GEO with WHM too, by the way. Or Tank, for pretty much every meaningful content. News at 11, if you want to get party fast, tank, heal and support are the jobs you want since they are pretty much "reserved" spots as far FFXI and MMORPG goes.
Supports especially, it's like people don't remember about BRDs getting message as soon they logged. -
12-28-2016, 12:24 AMShiyo-defense on the mob is an astronomical help to bst pets damage on said mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
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12-28-2016, 12:35 AMElexiaIt's not that don't remember, they simply didn't play the game pre-abyssea or purposefully ignoring it to try to have an "argument" against a support class being a support class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
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12-28-2016, 12:50 AMJin_UzukiGEO needs to hit all the mobs, it's risky as hell compared to cor, 4bst, pld :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
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12-28-2016, 02:42 AMSiviardWho said I was attacking you personally? I'm simply asking a question. That question is "Why do you have Ku Klux Klan levels of hatred towards Geomancer?" It's not that hard a question to answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
And "outdated profile"? You have activity on there as recent as 12-22-2016 so I'd say that profile of yours is still pretty active. -
12-28-2016, 03:01 AMElexia
The way XIAH pulls profile information was through the community site beta, however guildwork is still very much active. Like I said before, I'm just guessing the hate towards Geomancer is that there's only a few to go around on smaller servers and "If I can't have a geomancer no one can" mentality is prevalent.
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12-28-2016, 06:03 AMOmnysValefor
It does get old the tremendous difference that GEO makes, Bard used to make that difference but isn't quite up there (March isn't as potent as it once was)
The best solution is to buff bard, address some of their outdated songs and grant their songs (at least during SV) dispel protection. Many of the Idrises I know are harp/horn bards.
Pleast boost BRD to make it competitive again
And the difference Frailty or Malaise makes is large and nobody has anything close. -
12-28-2016, 08:53 AMZeargi.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmnysValefor
Which goes back to what I said earlier. The other support jobs need to be boosted and things need to be reevaluated. The Immunobreak system, songs, rolls, spells, and wards are all a good place to start, but destroying one job isn't going to magically make the other ones better. -
12-28-2016, 09:21 AMShiyo
Geo needs to be destroyed, it breaks the game in half. It makes enemies have no defense/mdef and greatly reduced magical evasion while giving mages GREATLY increased magical accuracy.
Nerfing geo is much easier than buffing 2 jobs, and RDM would literally need stymie to be passive or new traits that give OBSCENE magical accuracy to ever be worth bringing over a geo, which is far too much work.
Nerfing geo to the GROUND is the easiest way to fix support job balance issues. -
12-28-2016, 10:25 AMSiviardAt this point, all I can do is laugh at you. You scream for a nerf yet you won't answer my simple question. Why do you hate Geomancer so much? I eagerly await your response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
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12-28-2016, 11:02 AMElexiaUsing your logic, PLD breaks the game in half. Let's destroy PLD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
When you can literally slap down 99k damage like nothing and still have plenty of HP left to go through...the game is still balanced out, believe it or not.Quote:
It makes enemies have no defense/mdef and greatly reduced magical evasion while giving mages GREATLY increased magical accuracy.
It's the easiest way to kill what little player population on your server is left, too.Quote:
Nerfing geo to the GROUND is the easiest way to fix support job balance issues.
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12-28-2016, 12:30 PMJin_UzukiUuuh, I think you are under the impression that GEO "magically" allows you to beat every escha mob, when it's not the case. I can assure you that if the BLM don't have MBD damage capped and the SCH doesn't know what to do you are not going to beat, let's say, Maju. GEO does jack if your DD aren't competent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
And let's say they nerf GEO to the ground, so what? People STILL won't get a RDM for most content. GEO isn't taking RDM spot, the mechanics that made RDM needed mostly disappeared.
They would get a COR for everything now. There are 6 spots in a party, of course people will want t a support job anytime it is possible.
Oh and he would have a thread about needing to buff GEO because what are you going to do, have a support job that's completely useless? -
12-28-2016, 01:36 PMDomille
In theory, if GEO were gone, mobs would be set at the level of already having wilt langour vex and frailty on them.
Everything would be exactly the same, only without needing a geo to force the issue.
The theory is solid. The way square does things makes it impossible, so forget it. -
12-28-2016, 02:23 PMJin_UzukiThe theory in which you remove a job (and the equipment related stuff I guess) from the game and they literally rework pretty much every end-game mob is solid? What???Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
Also they STILL would fill the support job slot with a COR. It doesn't matter how much you hate GEO, there will always been a support slot taken in every party, just like there will always been a PLD/RUN and WHM slot unless you are doing faceroll content. -
12-28-2016, 02:49 PMDomilleThe buffs cor and bard bring are MINOR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki
The buffs AND DEBUFFS geo bring, are MAJOR.
There is a difference.
GEO changes the game at a fundamental level. BRD and COR simply make it a little faster. -
12-28-2016, 03:37 PMJin_UzukiNo, they are not. You don't seem to understand how powerful COR buffs are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
There is literally 0 wrong with having a support job for every major content. It's literally the point of these jobs and how FFXI battle system was designed. GEO is not "stealing" your sport in your party as much as WHM and Tank are. There are 6 spots in a party, support takes 1, tank takes another, healer takes one and rest are DD.
No one is going to take your WAR over a COR once they filled their DD spots. -
12-28-2016, 04:39 PMNyarlkoI don't think you understand how level adjustment works. :/ The combat values needed for higher level content is due to the linear stat increases that mobs get just for being higher level than us. It has nothing to do with GEO existing or not. It only matters how many levels over our ilvl the mob is. For instance, other than fight specific mechanics, job traits, or species which provide some form of evasion modification, there is a very predictable linear increase in how much physical accuracy is required per level over ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
Removing GEO would not automagically include any adjustments to the baseline combat system or every single mob's stats, so no, mobs would not have wilt/languor/vex/frailty baked into them. It would just become probably impossible to reach capped stat values on 145+ content.
IMO, those of us here who are calling for GEO nerfs should accept that even from a cynical/negative/WorstCaseScenario viewpoint, GEO is the crutch/bandaid being used at this point to allow clvl to continue to creep upwards without performing any of the actual adjustments to the other 21 jobs and/or core combat systems that would be required to handle 145+ content w/o GEO, and that nerfing buffs/debuffs would provide no actual benefits to how any of us play the game. Then join those of us in the anti-nerf faction and join in the call for buffs to BRD/RDM so we won't feel stupid for not using GEO. :D
It would not be "the easiest way" at all since it would require changes to core combat systems and/or adjustments to all 22 jobs in order to not make 145+ content most likely impossible to complete. That would likely be a larger workload for the devs than buffing 2 jobs. It's also a very bad idea/stance to take when it should be pretty obvious to any who look at them that BRD and RDM need serious work as it stands to be brought out of pre-SoA performance levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
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12-28-2016, 04:43 PMDomille
Look. I know you guys are new, and you don't understand how square works.
Geo's obscenely broken. Blu is obscenely broken. Immanence is broken. 100k bursts w/ zero enmity is broken.
Thinking they aren't doesn't make them ok. They are flat out broken. And as the updates roll in all we get is more breaks and zero fixes.
Now, you might enjoy that, still doesn't mean it's not broken.
Bard and Cor COMBINED are -never- going to be on GEOs level. It. will. not. happen.
and I don't play war. I just dont care enough to change the default. -
12-28-2016, 05:18 PMNyarlko
IMO, the only thing that could stand to be nerfed for GEO right now is possibly Cardinal Chant.
(You know, that positional buff system for nukes that no one bothers with usually since they don't nuke on GEO. <,<)
From some limited reports from others, and my own very limited testing, it seems as if CC might be classified as Magic Burst Damage II. Provided that that is the case, then the new AF119+3 hat would provide a maximum of MBDII+44% when the mob is true west of the player, which means that with maximum MBD gear, a GEO/blm would have +100% while a maximum MBD geared Job Master BLM would have +104% (+106% if you include the new AF119+3 hands). The /blm only adds +5%, so even a GEO/whm may potentially be able to match a BLM when it comes to nuking if CC does indeed give MBDII, which I find a bit worrisome. In that case, the game really could become a "PLD WHM GEO GEO GEO GEO" setup for basically everything that doesn't have extreme MDT-%. o_O;; That setup would have 10x bubbles at a time AND 4x nukers of BLM caliber.
Solutions to prevent this from occurring are simple at least. ^^;; Nerf the hat, change the MBDII granted by Cardinal Chant to MBDI, or nerf the MBDII values granted by 40%-50%.
Not joining the "Nerf GEO" faction here, but it might be wise to address this issue before it becomes an actual issue if CC really does grant MBDII. None of it applies if CC currently grants MBDI and I screwed up my testing methods. XD -
12-28-2016, 10:23 PMShiyoWell, I think COR buffs are pretty huge but I agree that cor/brd buffs simply make things faster while geo completely changes the game and breaks it in half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
Chaos + store tp(or double attack) is huuuuuuuuuge TP gain and increases your damage a lot, but it doesn't increase it at anywhere near the level of a geo will, ever. Removing 50%+ of an enemies defense while giving everyone a ton of attack is insane, the mob goes from huge defense to capping your pdif by simply bringing a geo, which adds more damage than a cor ever will by itself.
As stated above, Frailty removes over 50% of an enemies defenses and works for the ENTIRE ALLIANCE including PETS. No other jobs can bring something this strong.
Vex + attunement can't be replaced by anything any other job brings, and allows you to almost completely ignore enemies entire damaging mechanics and just TP burn it with melee. Without vex + attunement your melee would need to use a lot of -DT gear fulltime and eat status effects 24/7, game breaking buffs only geo can bring.
Malaise removes 100% of nearly every enemies magic defense which is an obscene magic damage boost that NO OTHER JOB IN THE GAME can give your entire ALLIANCE.
Languor + Focus gives you an obscene amount of magical accuracy on a level that no other job in the game can bring. Frazzle gives a good amount of -magical evasion to enemies but it ACTUALLY CANNOT LAND ON ANYTHING YOU NEED IT ON IT BECAUSE IT CAN BE RESISTED UNLIKE GEO DEBUFFS. while also NOT EVEN AS STRONG AS AN IDRA LANGOUR. Makes a lot of sense.
So yeah, anyone saying cor/brd are comparable are pretty much not thinking straight. What a geo brings cannot be replaced by any other job, geo fills up 1/6 party slots automatically because you cannot replace it's powerful buffs with any other single job and it is the most efficient and best way to debuff enemies and buff yourself. It also enables strategies you could never do without a geo so it breaks the game in half and enables things no other support job enables.
Geo needs to be nerfed to the ground. -
12-28-2016, 10:42 PMElexiaSee the problem with this "theory" is they need to remove ilvl and job gifts/Points in order to redesign the monsters. The current in-game method to kill your "theory"? Look at any pre-ilvl content designed prior to Seekers. Look at the content design, the monster design, the mechanics and the NMs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
You play on Asura which I personally know has quite a few Geos to go around, so I'm not sure why the hate. I can understand on servers with abysmal player population that people would hate what they can't have.
The only person here new is you, as you have no idea how not only does game design work but how SE works with FFXI. I've played XI since the initial Japanese beta, so "new" is one thing I'm not to their MMOs. However, the only thing that would change if they did "nerf geo into the ground" is force them to introduce MORE TEMPORARY ITEMS AND EFFECTS, because straight buffing COR and BRD will not only affect NMs and monsters who happen to have those jobs (especially in older content) but it would just lead to the same people crying to NERF COR/BRD INTO THE GROUND! because there won't be any available to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
While older content may not be relevant anymore, from a game design standpoint, you don't want to suddenly change something that will completely decimate a portion of the game hence: why it was 50/50 people either loved or despised Abyssea and later the ilvl introduction.
Because they're designed differently. Warrior, Monk and WHM combined talents will never have the tanking prowess of a PLD, ever.Quote:
Bard and Cor COMBINED are -never- going to be on GEOs level. It. will. not. happen.
Unless this outright kills every current ilvl progression monster in one cast, it's not "broken"Quote:
100k bursts w/ zero enmity is broken.
I understand hating Geomancer because your group doesn't have one or you can't recruit them easily because someone else gets to them first, but it's silly to want to nerf a good job into the ground and expect everything to be sunshine and rainbows. However if anyone truly believes the game suddenly changes because they introduced a new job, well...there's 100s of MMOs out there with more jobs that need to be played to understand the basics of game evolution and how it's not 100% tied to a new job, especially retroactively.
BLM would still pull ahead in terms of nuking. It's similar to the SCH vs BLM debate back in 2007-2009. The thing to keep in mind, a vanilla Geo will never outnuke or come anywhere near a BLM in terms of raw damage, ontop of having to deal with CC, that's the balance of the job which people usually overlook because it's very simple to ignore that you need to do a lot more for Geo. That's why you rarely see some deal with it because they know they're mainly there to be buff/debuff support, not nuking (though it speeds things up to actually nuke.)Quote:
which means that with maximum MBD gear, a GEO/blm would have +100% while a maximum MBD geared Job Master BLM would have +104% (+106% if you include the new AF119+3 hands). The /blm only adds +5%, so even a GEO/whm may potentially be able to match a BLM when it comes to nuking if CC does indeed give MBDII, which I find a bit worrisome. In that case, the game really could become a "PLD WHM GEO GEO GEO GEO" setup for basically everything that doesn't have extreme MDT-%. o_O;; That setup would have 10x bubbles at a time AND 4x nukers of BLM caliber.
Similar to the SCH vs WHM debate and how people were saying "you should have just given Light/Dark Arts to WHM and BLM" because people felt threatened by the good SCHs, but you simply can't replace jobs tailored to do one thing really well.
Again using your logic, COR and BRD breaks the game in half too, because they introduce buffs and speeds the game up, similar to how mobs dying quicker.....speeds the game up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
SHOCKING!
Because no other job is designed to do this. Geomancer is.Quote:
Vex + attunement can't be replaced by anything
Because no other job is designed to do this. Geomancer is.Quote:
Malaise removes 100% of nearly every enemies magic defense which is an obscene magic damage boost that NO OTHER JOB IN THE GAME can give your entire ALLIANCE.
Serious question: Is Ilvl Seekers when you started playing FFXI..or...?
As does having good ilvl gear and mastery, or did you forget ilvl gear is a thing?Quote:
Languor + Focus gives you an obscene amount of magical accuracy
You and anyone who thinks Geomancer "breaks the game" aren't thinking straight because you can't "break" something that make insanely difficult content easier. If you toss 99k damage at pre seekers content, you'll steamroll it. Toss it at post ilvl seekers content that is designed with all of this in mind? Tell me you've actually done the content to realize nerfing Geomancer won't do anything but make things harder than it needs to be.Quote:
So yeah, anyone saying cor/brd are comparable are pretty much not thinking straight.
PALADIN AND WHITE MAGE AUTOMATICALLY FILLS UP A PARTY SLOT.Quote:
geo fills up 1/6 party slots automatically
I wonder why...since you don't seem to understand how things work, in MMORPGs Tank/Healer/Support slots are automatically filled and usually the most sought after.
FFXI 2003 - 2009 BRDs couldn't go 10 seconds without getting a tell or blind party invite. CORs couldn't go 10 seconds without getting a tell or blind party invite. RDMs couldn't go more than 10 seconds without getting a tell or blind party invite, WHMs and PLDs couldn't go more than 10 seconds without getting a tell or blind party invite.
Want to know why? Because they were sought after jobs. But you didn't play FFXI prior to ilvl content, so you don't understand that what's happening now with Geomancer is nothing new to FFXI.
We can go into a whole new conversation about /DNC and SCHs changing set strategies prior to WoTG.Quote:
It also enables strategies you could never do without a geo so it breaks the game in half and enables things no other support job enables.
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12-28-2016, 10:50 PMDomilleAll of those are complete garbage, i would gladly get rid of Job Points GEO and Igarbage, so not really convincing me otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
It's cute that you try insults not knowing that I've done more in this game than you ever will, and played longer (everyone claims to have played since release on this site). And realize that things are broken.
Things are very obviously broken. if you play this game for 5 minutes you can see that.
BRD COR and RDM didn't change the game, they merely speed it up. GEO changes the entirety of the game. It's a very simple concept.
GEO is a literal game changer. No other job is like that. That is a bad thing for an MMO.
RUN PLD PUP are all interchangable.
WHM RDM SCH are all basically interchangable.
NOTHING comes close to langour focus malaise vex attune frailty. -
12-28-2016, 11:05 PMElexiaUnless you've helped develop this game in the late 90s, I highly doubt you could play longer and "do more" than myself, considering well, I played since the Japanese beta. You can continue to assume, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domille
BRD didn't have access to particular, gaming changing buffs that Corsair did. If you played as long as you did, you would know that. However having decked out BRDs and CORs for alliance rotation were a thing for a reason. If you feel nothing changed in XI after COR's introduction, then you actually haven't played the game as long as you claim. Likewise when Refresh became a thing, well..I'm sure nothing changed in the game in terms of MP management, yeah?Quote:
BRD COR and RDM didn't change the game
Similar to how monsters dying quicker speeds the game up.Quote:
they merely speed it up
Then again, I've played XI long enough to know hating a job because my group didn't have access to them is silly. I'm guessing the whole "breaks the game" is being used subjectively, when anyone who's played XI knows the game has been "broken" long before Geomancer was even a passing thought. -
12-28-2016, 11:30 PMJin_UzukiYou don't seem to understand what I am saying. It's not "GEO" that it's locked in the party slot, it's "support". I dosesn't matter if GEO is more powerful than COR, people will always, always, always, always take a support job. They will gladly take 2 supports over a DD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
Where you in 2006 when ppl TP burned Sky Gods with BRD?
Ok, we nerfed GEO. Guess what? That party slot is still filled by a support still. Now it's COR. COR is not powerful as GEO? Who cares! It still a support job powering up ALL the DD in your party.Quote:
Geo needs to be nerfed to the ground.
Also we need to buff GEO now because what are you going to do, have a useless job? -
12-28-2016, 11:36 PMShiyo
If you nerf geo then there's 3 viable jobs for support instead of one ;/(geo bard cor)
At 75 cap there was 2(cor bard)
Nerfing geo to the ground(it's this overpowered) balances the support jobs.
I don't care about a JOB ROLE being a mandatory slot, but geo isn't a role, it has it's own party slot that only it can fill. That's horrible.
Support role being filled by 3 jobs equally as strong/different niches would be perfect. That's called balance.
Basically:
Right now geo fills a mandatory role in a party that ONLY geo can do. It needs to be nerfed to the ground(its that overpowered) so that it's party slot becomes the "support slot" instead of "geo slot".