May Update Dissapointment

I'm all for the prospect of using the mini forms of Alex and Odin as regular summons, atleast that way we might be able to have a light based avatar that can hopefully do decent light damage.

More adjustments are abound for summoners!

In the update to take place after today's version update, we are planning to make adjustments to Assault, Retreat, and Release so that the cool down for these abilities are reduced to 5 seconds. We hope that this improves usability a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Camate

More adjustments are abound for summoners!

In the update to take place after today's version update, we are planning to make adjustments to Assault and Release so that the cool down for these abilities are reduced to 5 seconds. We hope that this improves usability a bit more.

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Can you also look into fixing the whole issue with assault flat out just not working?

Maybe also do something about Avatars going right back to attacking if Retreat pulls hate?

Retreat also should get a reduced timer.

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Originally Posted by Frodnon

Retreat also should get a reduced timer.

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Retreat is also included, they accidently left it out in their translaton.

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Originally Posted by Mnejing

Retreat is also included, they accidently left it out in their translaton.

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Thanks for pointing that out! I added it into my post.

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Originally Posted by Frodnon

Can you also look into fixing the whole issue with assault flat out just not working?

Maybe also do something about Avatars going right back to attacking if Retreat pulls hate?

Retreat also should get a reduced timer.

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In my experience it works like this: If you use assault when the avatar is far away it seems to first retreat to you then assault the target (even though you only use assault). If your avatar is too far away, it ends up just retreating to you (even if the monster is in range for the command, it's like it "times out" on waiting to use the assault part).

For retreat, SMN avatars always protect them, even if you sleep the mobs it will immediately wake them up. The only way I've found to make it not do this is not be on the enmity list for the monsters at all. So basically have the avatar aggro them, don't get sight/sound aggrod and don't cast or do anything on the mob directly. It would be a definite quality of life improvement to have the avatar change behavior if you use retreat, especially for sleeping (often have to unsummon the avatar just to let stuff stay slept), on the other hand it could have unintended consequences we don't want if that happens so it's catch 22. I was going to try something where you can have the avatar assault something, then use retreat and sneak and invis yourself and run around linking adds and then aoe them mostly to avoid the fact if you pull a group to aoe, the avatar will never follow you. It seems SE might've thought of that tho as casting sneak or invis gives me hate, prism powders/sneak oils might still work though or stunning the mob while you sneak invis... so the only other way I've found is the first mob I pull I use flash or do enough damage to keep hate on me while I pull and the avatar will follow that around beating on it while I pull >.> Game mechanics are really interesting to me this way.

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Originally Posted by Fae

In my experience it works like this: If you use assault when the avatar is far away it seems to first retreat to you then assault the target (even though you only use assault). If your avatar is too far away, it ends up just retreating to you (even if the monster is in range for the command, it's like it "times out" on waiting to use the assault part).

For retreat, SMN avatars always protect them, even if you sleep the mobs it will immediately wake them up. The only way I've found to make it not do this is not be on the enmity list for the monsters at all. So basically have the avatar aggro them, don't get sight/sound aggrod and don't cast or do anything on the mob directly. It would be a definite quality of life improvement to have the avatar change behavior if you use retreat, especially for sleeping (often have to unsummon the avatar just to let stuff stay slept), on the other hand it could have unintended consequences we don't want if that happens so it's catch 22. I was going to try something where you can have the avatar assault something, then use retreat and sneak and invis yourself and run around linking adds and then aoe them mostly to avoid the fact if you pull a group to aoe, the avatar will never follow you. It seems SE might've thought of that tho as casting sneak or invis gives me hate, prism powders/sneak oils might still work though or stunning the mob while you sneak invis... so the only other way I've found is the first mob I pull I use flash or do enough damage to keep hate on me while I pull and the avatar will follow that around beating on it while I pull >.> Game mechanics are really interesting to me this way.

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You're talking basic mechanics, although #1 isn't always the case.

I've had the avatar fail to assault when he was less than 5m from me, it often has to do with situations where i'm running towards a mob and issue the command at the 21m distance.

AS for #2, there's plenty of situations where i would like to sleepga an army, but releasing an av after is risky but keeping it out will wake one.
The problem is twofold, the sleep action only gives like 1 cumulative enmity on the target, and retreat gives a similar amount of hate. Simply put, sleepga and similar actions should probably generate more hate for the av, and retreat shouldn't generate any at all.

imo, there are adjustments to summoners BloodPacts that are needed much more than adjustments to assault, retreat and release timers. It like going to a hospital crying with a broken leg and the doctor comes in and only gives you tissues to dry your eyes.

So just started testing the cure potency of avatar cures and so far not really impressed, Just did Spring Water with max tp and healed for a whopping 657hp. I know it can cure status ailments as well but that is one very weak cure. Did Garuda's Whispering Wind with no tp and got 822hp back but gonna continue playing around as Garuda's might be better with TP backing it up.

*Added* Just tried Whispering Wind out with max TP and still healed for 822hp.

*Added round 2* Seems Healing Ruby II actually got an upgrade, Carby managed to heal me for 1366 which maxed out my HP so could go higher. Without TP it did 1040hp.

Anyone got any clarification on the wording for Spring Water and Whispering Wind? the whole "Adjustments have been made to healing potency and the TP adjustment has been changed to area-of-effect." is very vague.

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Originally Posted by Secondplanet

So just started testing the cure potency of avatar cures and so far not really impressed, Just did Spring Water with max tp and healed for a whopping 657hp. I know it can cure status ailments as well but that is one very weak cure. Did Garuda's Whispering Wind with no tp and got 822hp back but gonna continue playing around as Garuda's might be better with TP backing it up.

*Added* Just tried Whispering Wind out with max TP and still healed for 822hp.

*Added round 2* Seems Healing Ruby II actually got an upgrade, Carby managed to heal me for 1366 which maxed out my HP so could go higher. Without TP it did 1040hp.

Anyone got any clarification on the wording for Spring Water and Whispering Wind? the whole "Adjustments have been made to healing potency and the TP adjustment has been changed to area-of-effect." is very vague.

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The wording means that Spring Water and Whispering wind now heal for more base HP. Increases in TP increase the AoE effect from the avatar. More TP = bigger range. Less TP = smaller range.
For Carbuncle, not only does it heal more base, but TP still increases the amount healed.

Whispering wind before the buff would only heal for about 500-600 with max tp, so to be healing for 822 is quite a big buff for it, same with spring water which heals less than whispering wind but also removes debuffs, it's now healing for more than the old whispering wind.

So some further tests on

Carby healed me for 1520 HP on healing ruby without capped TP it was 200% which is a huge upgrade.

Garuda capped out for me at 1k.

Leviathan capped out at 800.

I think they can be higher with + summoning skill.

I'm enjoying the new potency on healing very much thank you for this update. Avatar max HP and Avatar TP are what decide how much are healed over the base rate. Apogee set has a lot to avatar HP, but takes from the master. You can get very big heals now, though if you equip apogee set to use the biggest heals you can, you can actually end up with less hp than you started before a heal. But it is a good way to up how much you heal to party members and the avatar itself. This was tested by another SMN before apogee set came out by going to abyssea and applying HP atma and buffs to the avatar, and I believe was mentioned by a dev/mod post as well. I like being able to fill my parties HP bar every 30s if needed, while it's not reliable healing, it can help counter large AoE damage to your party especially if solo and needing to save your trusts. I do not have any complaints of this and hope to see more wards looked at, thank you SE.