10000 plutons seems too extreme to upgrade relics

Playablity takes priority over vanity.

AFTER the game fixes some complaints, then I'll put on a party hat and give a crap about riding a tiger. This isn't wow. I haven't rode a chocobo since 2009.

Seriously, if we want mounts, just let us summon our chocobos in Adoulin and Escha 'cause moogle magic.

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Originally Posted by machini

Seriously, if we want mounts, just let us summon our chocobos in Adoulin and Escha 'cause moogle magic.

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Don't forget the northlands.

If you can call your bird on the upper level of batallia (only accessible from BCD), then I see no reason you shouldn't be able to have it in the northlands.

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I always believed that SE were trying to make chocobos more realistic, and therefor more loved by players, by going with the "birds don't like cold weather" angle.

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That's not the reason. The reason is the only way to access Beaucadine on foot is through a cave. It's caves/dungeons that chocobos won't go in.

It's been that way since the beginning, so I'm guessing that even though WOTG made a ramp in batallia for BCD, that they just kept it that way because they were lazy.

Seems a little late in the game to be adding new mounts. And really, what would be the point? I can't even remember the last time I rode a chocobo. Not that it's completely pointless, I'm sure there are people who still do.

Back to the point of the thread, I think the 10k count is too high only because farming them takes so long. As if ARME's weren't expensive enough already, they want us to dump another 70-100 mill into them to get them to the point they should have always been at it in the first place. I was really hoping getting my Kikoku to its final stage would be more fun. Instead, it's just another stupid grind. I would much rather have needed 1k plutons and needed to do Reiseinjima NMs or something.

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There are chocobos in Altepa desert, which you travel through Korroloka Tunnel (cave dungeon) to reach

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The people of Rabao brought them there. Same for the jungle (mhaura or Norg). There's no settlements or people in the northlands to keep birds.

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And the rental chocobos in Norg use the Sea Serpent Grotto (cave dungeon) to exit into the jungle too, since there is no other way.

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Acually, they do not, the Chocobo NPC in Norg tells you they built a special exit for them.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The people of Rabao brought them there. Same for the jungle (mhaura or Norg). There's no settlements or people in the northlands to keep birds.

Acually, they do not, the Chocobo NPC in Norg tells you they built a special exit for them.

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Presumably those people brought the chocobos to their settlements, by travelling through the caves. Also when I call my chocobo using whistle, she appears in Altepa and the Jungle, I am assuming she travelled through the caves to get there.

In Norg, yes they say you can not ride the bird in SSG, but if you actually look at Norg in relation to the exit areas in the Jungle, Norg is a long way from the actual exit point in the Jungle, and so the chocobos "special exit" would still have to be a long tunnel through the caves.

In any case, the fact that my chocobo is very happy to be called in the desert and jungle areas, but refuses to be called in Northlands, is because she doesn't like the Northlands, and I believe this is because it is cold.

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Originally Posted by cengeal

Seems a little late in the game to be adding new mounts. And really, what would be the point? I can't even remember the last time I rode a chocobo. Not that it's completely pointless, I'm sure there are people who still do.

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I know this is the wrong thread to be stressing this point, but I really have to say I agree with this sentiment. Why now, after SE has basically declared no new areas will ever be added to the game again, do they add new mounts? I mean, it's nice and all, but was there really nothing better for them to work on?

I'm not sure I really agree that that same effort would've gone to RMEs though, since it's probably largely graphics/animation work which is probably a different group than the people designing items and the like, but I'm pretty sure people would've appreciated, say, a unique monster model for Quetzalcoatl more than they would being able to ride a crab.

Or maybe...SE could take the time being spent doing that and instead slowly work towards having more models/animations for a larger XI project...hint, hint.

I did find it odd Quetzalcoatl was a wyrm, kinda cheap if you ask me!

I did mine and wasnt that bad. I know of 3 people on my server that farmed farmed farmed like crazy on the BCs, and did theirs in about a week. Kept the plutons, sold off the other two and bought more plutons. Its doable.

It's just excessively boring. And a little... weak. Plutons/Beitetsu/Boulders are actually overused.

Every other time they come up with some fancy new item from some new content that we haven't already done 600 times. There's nothing interesting about doing Tenzen for the 600th time, after you've done it for all of 2015 before 10,000 stones were needed.

They could've at least added a new +1 version of the thrown out gear to make it slightly less of a slap in the face.

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Originally Posted by Angemon

I did find it odd Quetzalcoatl was a wyrm, kinda cheap if you ask me!

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Could say the same for Jormungand and Vrtra, both those, like Quetzalcoatl, were also serpents in their own respective mythologies.

Then again, going by those, this game's interpretation of wyrm isn't accurate either.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Presumably those people brought the chocobos to their settlements, by travelling through the caves. Also when I call my chocobo using whistle, she appears in Altepa and the Jungle, I am assuming she travelled through the caves to get there.

In Norg, yes they say you can not ride the bird in SSG, but if you actually look at Norg in relation to the exit areas in the Jungle, Norg is a long way from the actual exit point in the Jungle, and so the chocobos "special exit" would still have to be a long tunnel through the caves.

In any case, the fact that my chocobo is very happy to be called in the desert and jungle areas, but refuses to be called in Northlands, is because she doesn't like the Northlands, and I believe this is because it is cold.

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I'm going to continue to assume it's specifically because of the dungeons, because that's more consistent with other final fantasy games. in FFXIV they don't care about cold places (Ishgard even still raises black chocobos), they only won't enter dungeons, the major cities, and some other interior places.

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Why now, after SE has basically declared no new areas will ever be added to the game again

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Are you really comparing brand new areas to mounts using existing assets (e.g. the raptor we were shown)? Really?

A new area requires a ton of work from a bunch of people e.g. artists and level designers. A new mount can leverage existing assets and systems.

Do we really need new areas right now anyway? It will just make it less and less likely that you'll bump into other players. There's tons of empty space in existing areas that could be put to more fuinctional use.

...No, I was making the point that without new areas, the incentive to run around and explore is significantly decreased, so adding mounts is a whole lot of work into something very few people will appreciate. Even ignoring all contextual clues if you read the rest of the post you would've realized that.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

...No, I was making the point that without new areas, the incentive to run around and explore is significantly decreased, so adding mounts is a whole lot of work into something very few people will appreciate. Even ignoring all contextual clues if you read the rest of the post you would've realized that.

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It does sound like a bad idea but it does sound like SE. So much work poured into various things that were destined to never really be appreciated or just once a day check (hello monster rearing) or stuff that had potential but they left it half finished... like monstrosity or pankration.

Honestly I'm thinking this is more along the lines of this is a more for the devs thing. It's not about usefulness or playability but something cool the devs have wanted to do for awhile. Ditto the patio

See the patio is something people will actually appreciate because people go into their houses all the time. That's fluff content I'm supportive of. Chocobos lost their function after they decided to add about 4 different ways teleport around the world.

hey u all said afterglow was optional well. so is finishing your weapon 119 is 119

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Originally Posted by Vae

It's just excessively boring. And a little... weak. Plutons/Beitetsu/Boulders are actually overused.

Every other time they come up with some fancy new item from some new content that we haven't already done 600 times. There's nothing interesting about doing Tenzen for the 600th time, after you've done it for all of 2015 before 10,000 stones were needed.

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Kinda irrelevant to the discussion but just curious, why'd everyone spam Tenzen over leviathan and ifrit to farm stones? It's significantly slower and if grind is boring, you may as well spam them faster and get it over with.

Also the point of farming boring items is so that players without friends/ls can complete a skill 269 weapon slowly on their own time. Killing Reisenjima HELM is fun(and stressing on the same time), but that doesn't mean all types of player can do it and it's still out of reach for majority. Having a way to do casual grind and get a skill 269 weapon is a good way to give majority of players a long term goal to do.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Kinda irrelevant to the discussion but just curious, why'd everyone spam Tenzen over leviathan and ifrit to farm stones? It's significantly slower and if grind is boring, you may as well spam them faster and get it over with.

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Tenzen VD dies in 1 skillchain, something like < 30 seconds, the run up to the avatar takes longer than tenzen does to kill.

I don't know why people do what they do.

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Originally Posted by Afania

...fun...

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No, not really. Just another generic fight. Nothing exciting, or interesting, or new, or entertaining.

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Originally Posted by Vae

the run up to the avatar takes longer than tenzen does to kill.

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Really? That's very interesting. Am I missing any HP near tenzen BC? Which HP did you use? Because the running from my usual HP near Tenzen BC takes longer than killing avatar itself. I guess I probably missed some HP right outside of BC which caused tenzen spam a lot less efficient.

Also since you mentioned the run up to the avatars, I've been thinking of having one person /THF or main THF flee pull it to entrance or toward everyone else to save time, but I haven't try it yet.

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Originally Posted by Vae

No, not really. Just another generic fight. Nothing exciting, or interesting, or new, or entertaining.

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So grinding from easy BC is boring for you, doing Reisenjima HELM is "generic fight, nothing exciting/interesting/new or entertaining". What else in this game that you find it fun/interesting/exciting? Why not play a different video game? Because really, you don't seem to enjoy playing this game at all and I can't think of any current content in this game that you may enjoy.

I just like to say, 10,000 is not extreme. I expected something like this in a form of escha way and not something that already existed. But 10,000 imo seems reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Ladynamine

I just like to say, 10,000 is not extreme. I expected something like this in a form of escha way and not something that already existed. But 10,000 imo seems reasonable.

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Personally I think it would be reasonable if there were more methods to obtain the items we need. The only way to really farm them is by spamming High-Tier Battlefields at the moment, but if there's a better way, please, tell me. I think 1,000 would be reasonable, maybe even 5,000. But then again, reasonable is a subjective term.

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Originally Posted by cengeal

Personally I think it would be reasonable if there were more methods to obtain the items we need. The only way to really farm them is by spamming High-Tier Battlefields at the moment, but if there's a better way, please, tell me. I think 1,000 would be reasonable, maybe even 5,000. But then again, reasonable is a subjective term.

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Any FFXI player that's played this game for years should know that if you want the best out of a relic, mythic, or empyrean weapon that you have to earn it. The people who took the time to afterglow these weapons beforehand by previous methods had to work hard for theirs either by farming the 5 + 250 marrows, 3 + 150 scoria, or 6 + 60 Riftdross/Riftcinders, all at which at the time were not so easy to get unless you had a huge pocketbook of gil at that time. Square-Enix wasn't going to simply just give people a hand out on Afterglow weapons. In fact, it could have been worse. It could have been 2,500 umbral marrows, 1,500 mulibar's scoria, or 600 riftdross/riftcinders needed.

For those that did the Afterglow weapons beforehand, they got rewarded by only needing 1 stone of the type of weapon. Otherwise, 10,000 is not a really bad deal at all. Quite frankly, I rather deal with the 10,000 requirement. Regardless you're getting rewarded w/ stones to upgrade and whatever you don't need, you can sell for either profit or put towards more of what you need. Also, I think it takes less time to just go farm the merits to do the fights than it would to go farm pops in dynamis or zeni nm's, or rely on a less that 1% drop rate on riftdross/riftcinders at maximum lights on voidwatch.

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Square-Enix wasn't going to simply just give people a hand out on Afterglow weapons. In fact, it could have been worse.

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The thing is, the afterglow was painted as an optional project for bored people with a lot of time/money on their hands. It wasn't painted as something that was required to use your relic or something that would be required in the future.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The thing is, the afterglow was painted as an optional project for bored people with a lot of time/money on their hands. It wasn't painted as something that was required to use your relic or something that would be required in the future.

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I agree w/ that comment, but for people who did it, it's still something you had to earn and take a lot of work to do. Pretty much, people who are like "why did you make this 10,000 stones. that's too many. only high-tier bcnm's drop them" don't want to work for the boosted stats that much*, hence my "Square-Enix wasn't going to simply just give people a hand out on Afterglow weapons" comment.

For me, I didn't want to hunt down 125-250 more Arch Dynamis Lords, 75-150 more Pandemonum Wardens, or god knows how many Morta's, Ig-Alima's, Botulus Rex's, or Bismarck's I had to kill before and after this announcement on upgrading these weapons happened, but I still wanted an afterglow weapon. So I took the other path, and I felt I earned my first weapon farming/buying 10,000 more stones. I farmed about 80% of the stones needed for it and bought the other 20%.

I didn't make much profit off of other stones not needed because I made a deal w/ another player on trading 1 type of stone he needed for the type i needed as we worked together on duo'ing VD Ark Angel MR fights. We averaged 400-800 stones daily for like 3 weeks.

*: Edited to add more to my post

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Originally Posted by Ladynamine

Any FFXI player that's played this game for years should know that if you want the best out of a relic, mythic, or empyrean weapon that you have to earn it. The people who took the time to afterglow these weapons beforehand by previous methods had to work hard for theirs either by farming the 5 + 250 marrows, 3 + 150 scoria, or 6 + 60 Riftdross/Riftcinders, all at which at the time were not so easy to get unless you had a huge pocketbook of gil at that time. Square-Enix wasn't going to simply just give people a hand out on Afterglow weapons. In fact, it could have been worse. It could have been 2,500 umbral marrows, 1,500 mulibar's scoria, or 600 riftdross/riftcinders needed.

For those that did the Afterglow weapons beforehand, they got rewarded by only needing 1 stone of the type of weapon. Otherwise, 10,000 is not a really bad deal at all. Quite frankly, I rather deal with the 10,000 requirement. Regardless you're getting rewarded w/ stones to upgrade and whatever you don't need, you can sell for either profit or put towards more of what you need. Also, I think it takes less time to just go farm the merits to do the fights than it would to go farm pops in dynamis or zeni nm's, or rely on a less that 1% drop rate on riftdross/riftcinders at maximum lights on voidwatch.

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Like I said, it's all subjective. Could it have been worse? Yes. Could it have been better? Yes. Each one of those ideas is as equally effective/ineffective as an argument point.

I'm not interested in turning this into some kind of debate or feud, just remember that not everybody shares opinions. Some people will agree with your statement, some will agree with mine, and others might have a view that's completely separate.

Now, I'm putting myself into the hypothetical situation where I upgraded my Kikoku to have an afterglow. Am I happy that I have less trouble to go through than most other owners? yes. However, I'm also imagining myself to be quite irritated that it cost me about an extra 100m (that's comparing the current prices of plutons vs. marrows) to do it. At best, that's a bittersweet feeling. At worst, I'm feeling that my motivation betrayed me.

To reiterate, up until this, Afterglow had always been something optional, at 99 and at 119 I. For as completely worthless as afterglow is, forcing us to attain it, even if it's at half of the gil cost, is extremely disrespectful in terms of them going back on the 'afterglow is optional' thing.

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Originally Posted by machini

To reiterate, up until this, Afterglow had always been something optional, at 99 and at 119 I. For as completely worthless as afterglow is, forcing us to attain it, even if it's at half of the gil cost, is extremely disrespectful in terms of them going back on the 'afterglow is optional' thing.

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Yes indeed- people would say it's disrespectful to the people that did the afterglows as well if the trial wasn't long, but that was exactly our point when this stuff was announced- if they simply kept the two seperate paths, all would have been well.

I honestly don't think I'd ever seen someone with afterglow before this.

Doesn't mean they didn't exist. They should have kept the two paths separate, this current one only screws over previous AG users (which are in the vast minority so nobody cares about them sadly.)

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Originally Posted by Ladynamine

Any FFXI player that's played this game for years should know that if you want the best out of a relic, mythic, or empyrean weapon that you have to earn it. The people who took the time to afterglow these weapons beforehand by previous methods had to work hard for theirs either by farming the 5 + 250 marrows, 3 + 150 scoria, or 6 + 60 Riftdross/Riftcinders, all at which at the time were not so easy to get unless you had a huge pocketbook of gil at that time. Square-Enix wasn't going to simply just give people a hand out on Afterglow weapons. In fact, it could have been worse. It could have been 2,500 umbral marrows, 1,500 mulibar's scoria, or 600 riftdross/riftcinders needed.

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Just to correct you, it costs 60 Roiftdross/cinders to get to 99 and 3000 to get the afterglow so....it is worse.

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Originally Posted by machini

I honestly don't think I'd ever seen someone with afterglow before this.

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There are a few. I've seen one before on shiva.

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Originally Posted by Rydal

Just to correct you, it costs 60 Roiftdross/cinders to get to 99 and 3000 to get the afterglow so....it is worse.

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Thanks for the correction. Just now saw the mistake in the post. 3,000 is indeed alot worse on just the 99-2 path alone.

Here's another annoyance: Once you start it, you're locked in. I wish I had known that before i started working on my Verethragna. I can't augment any of my JSE gear until I get another 9400 boulders.It'd be nice if you could do so, perhaps with another stone you're not using on your R/E/M.

Such a task as this should have been put on its own NPC if the NPC isn't allowed to talk about anything else while you're on it. =\

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Such a task as this should have been put on its own NPC if the NPC isn't allowed to talk about anything else while you're on it. =\

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They ran out of ideas with the current staff they have. Give em a break, they re-used plutons/boulders/beits for a second time, and they re-used oboro. They clearly didn't have the five extra minutes it would've taken to make a second NPC next to Oboro.

You can retrieve or augment the JSE weapons while doing the REM upgrade, I got a new JSE weapon and augmented it last week, while my mythic is still being worked on.

But, you may not be able to use the same stone which is used to upgrade your REM

I'll admit I was skeptical, because I tried everything to try and get him to accept my Aettir to upgrade while working on my Ryuno in the past, but I just went back to try again, and lo and behold it worked. Here's what I did:

1) Talk to Oboro. Since he has my Ryunohige, his options were "Ask what the deal is" and "Nothing." If you select "Nothing", then he'll mention that he wouldn't be averse to augmenting other pieces of equipment at the same time.
2) Talk to him and you'll see the list of JSE weapons, just as if you were trying to get him to make one. Go down to "About the weapons" and he'll explain that he will pause working on your RME to work on this weapon, though he won't return materials. This made me nervous, but it doesn't actually halt the RME process, so it's fine.
3) Trade him your JSE weapon and a stone of your type (Boulders, Beitetsu, Plutons) and he'll accept it and mezzotint your weapon (i.e. prime it for augments) so that you can use that stone with the weapon.
4) Trade him the JSE weapon and however many stones, and it'll get augmented.

And I made sure it didn't mess with the RME process, because I traded a bunch of Beitetsu afterwards and it was immediately put towards my Ryuno, with the same count as before. So yay, we can do JSE and RME together.

Well I came back again due to free week and its still 10000 plutons with no good way to get these. I had 47m gil on my character that isn't enough to buy them all. I could solo those ark angel fights but getting merits points to fight that takes a long time and the drop rate seemed about 1 in 10. Since they added new merits I should spend the merit points on those and nobody does stuff like abyssea anymore so getting merits is one huge pain now.

It would be cool to finish the relic as one last hurrah but nothing has changed these are still very hard to get.