Alluvion Skirmishes

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You know, =.=a I did mention somewhere in the beginning of this conversation that this is comparing to Non RME alternatives. throwing RME into the equation is an obvious no brainer what will win, which is why i left them out of it all :I

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The point isn't new skirmish weapon can't compete with RME though, it CAN have niche situation with unique augment, even for RME owners. The point is that the augment range is so huge that the chance of getting them is so small....I don't mind a cure potency gun for COR/WHM, but idk how to get them.

If SE said we're gonna stay on ilv119 for another 3 years, or the augment I get can stay for next tier, I'd toss gil on it.

With next tier coming anytime soon, and R/M/E confirmed to get an upgrade, it's pretty silly to release an augment system with such huge range.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate in response to this update. I haven't tried any of the new content since the last skirmish content that was released because all this new stuff seems like complete crap.

First off, 99% of the time players are going to exploit it with the same job combinations (MNK, PLD, WHM, SCH, COR, BRD), which bottlenecks game play for everyone. I would like to see a game where you can invite any job combination and apply them usefully in a scenario or battlefield. I'm certain that I am not alone in this opinion.

I would like to see old jobs branch off into new roles for damage dealing, tanking, and support.
I would like to see old equipment become upgradable to be functional at level 119, to include all of the magian trial weapons and equipment.
I would like to see more customization in character building than just equipment. Equipment should only be ornate and help to some degree. Job points and merits need a severe overhaul, not a patch.
Players should be invited based on skill and not on what equipment they have in possession.
Most of all, I would like to see the ffxi community play together to accomplish missions and battlefields than compete for equipment and squabble for content.

When are you planning to update any content so that every job can participate in it?

I'm not making demands, but until this game becomes more enjoyable for everyone, my wife and I are breaking from it. It's $25 a month that we can save up to try other games.

v/r

AK

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Originally Posted by Afania

The point isn't new skirmish weapon can't compete with RME though, it CAN have niche situation with unique augment, even for RME owners. The point is that the augment range is so huge that the chance of getting them is so small....I don't mind a cure potency gun for COR/WHM, but idk how to get them.

If SE said we're gonna stay on ilv119 for another 3 years, or the augment I get can stay for next tier, I'd toss gil on it.

With next tier coming anytime soon, and R/M/E confirmed to get an upgrade, it's pretty silly to release an augment system with such huge range.

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Frankly, and as less offensively as I can make it cause thats honestly not my intent, but I think its a stupid scapegoat to bring up RME and compare every weapon introduced to them. Yes, they aren't better than RME, but save for maybe a handful of people in XI, no one owns a 119 RME for all their jobs, which is why these sub-RME weapons are still useful to most players. I do agree that the range being so wide is a little annoying, and I agree that its also quite stupid that you can get off-stone augments, which I think should be removed in the next installment of Skirmish. But considering if you put your mind to it, you'd probably have a good-to-great augment in a couple days work, less if you put gil into it, it ain't superbly terrible.

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First off, 99% of the time players are going to exploit it with the same job combinations (MNK, PLD, WHM, SCH, COR, BRD), which bottlenecks game play for everyone. I would like to see a game where you can invite any job combination and apply them usefully in a scenario or battlefield. I'm certain that I am not alone in this opinion.

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Its not an exploit to use efficient jobs... The fastest way will be SAMs and other high tier DD... but its not impossible without them, I've personally beaten a 3 body run with BST, NIN, RUN, COR, WHM, GEO... You can win these things with just about any realistic job combination,(I.E DDsx3, Support, Healer) thats not the problem... Its that people will go for the most efficient and least "room for stupid" jobs. I.E if you're given the option for a SAM or PUP, you'll likely take the SAM since its more likely, even if they suck, that they'll be better than the PUP, since the PUP requires a great player to be done well.

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I would like to see old jobs branch off into new roles for damage dealing, tanking, and support.

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Like what XD? There aren't many rolls for an MMO outside of those 3... except Healing.

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I would like to see more customization in character building than just equipment. Equipment should only be ornate and help to some degree. Job points and merits need a severe overhaul, not a patch.

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I don't know if theres any MMO like this... Equipment is the foundation of MMOs, its the drive behind almost all of them, especially XI with its macro system. Merit adjustments would be nice though :D

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Players should be invited based on skill and not on what equipment they have in possession.

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This would be kinda nice... but you can't put skill into a game like XI without a complete rehaul of the battle system, and I mean ground up to the point it would be easier to make a new MMO. Also, theres no way to judge skill at face value so "skill" is an intangible asset in an MMO unless you're well known. So judging based on skill is impossible when all you have to go off of is a line of text saying "SAM, Do you need it?"

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Most of all, I would like to see the ffxi community play together to accomplish missions and battlefields than compete for equipment and squabble for content.

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I, I do agree... but like World peace, this won't happen... too many different types of people, too many different ideas of fun. You know, sometimes I wish people could get along, but I also enjoy the variety people bring to XI, even the asshats :|

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Frankly, and as less offensively as I can make it cause thats honestly not my intent, but I think its a stupid scapegoat to bring up RME and compare every weapon introduced to them. Yes, they aren't better than RME, but save for maybe a handful of people in XI, no one owns a 119 RME for all their jobs, which is why these sub-RME weapons are still useful to most players. I do agree that the range being so wide is a little annoying, and I agree that its also quite stupid that you can get off-stone augments, which I think should be removed in the next installment of Skirmish. But considering if you put your mind to it, you'd probably have a good-to-great augment in a couple days work, less if you put gil into it, it ain't superbly terrible.|

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The problem is that the people who can't get an RME weapon or a delve weapon or an AA weapon that is just as good / better are the same people who can't get these weapons with good augments because it takes too much time / money to get good augments.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

The problem is that the people who can't get an RME weapon or a delve weapon or an AA weapon that is just as good / better are the same people who can't get these weapons with good augments because it takes too much time / money to get good augments.

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Mmmmmmm, Perhaps... but those people... IDK. You should be able to beat this content with Eminent weapons, its 119 content, and the NMs aren't really that hard, and if you still can't beat it with Skirmish things, then I hate to be that guy but there are some people you simply cannot help.

Still, I'm perfectly capable of making an RME, I have a relic actually, but it doesn't mean I want to build a Mythic or Relic for all of my jobs, so these work for me, as I'm sure they work for many others, or at least a good portion of others. Still, as far as 119 weapons go, aside from Delve II weapons, these are probably the easiest to get that aren't straight gil sinks (Like Oboro 119's), I mean, they're 100% drops from rather easy NMs. I truly think the only horrible NM is the Behemoth cause it levels up, but even that has a strategy now (tank from back/side to reduce howl usage).

... I ... Idk, you can't make everyone happy :I

For those of you who have been collecting stones from Alluvion skirmishes, here is a bit of information for you.

In the future we are planning to add more avenues for using the stones you can obtain from Alluvion skirmishes when we add armor with the continuation of Alluvion skirmish.

Oh no, when will this "random augment" phase ever end?

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

For those of you who have been collecting stones from Alluvion skirmishes, here is a bit of information for you.

In the future we are planning to add more avenues for using the stones you can obtain from Alluvion skirmishes when we add armor with the continuation of Alluvion skirmish.

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Ugh............ This post... It makes me hurt all over.

I'm actually excited to see what'll be added, I enjoy the new alluvion skirmishes and though augmenting can be a pain it is a little essier with stone types and storage. Just make sure there are nice new models for the gear :) like there were for weapons. Also, has there been any info on the 7th Naakual? Could've sworn along time ago someone said there were 7 of them. Just wondering for the wildkeeper reive and delve and what zone/element he will be located and have affinity with. Light or Dark? Or maybe both? O.o lol

I think the last boss from the adoulin mission was the 7th naakual. But not really sure since I tend to skip the cutscenes.

I think Alluvion drop system on weapons, and random augments system, would be great. IF the gear was going to be useful in a years time. The reason it isn't so great, is because of the wider built-in-obsolescence problem in ilvl.

It would be worth it IF the weapons had a shelf-life of at least a year. But they don't either the weapons will not upgrade to 125, or the augments will be lost in the process. Either way its a monumental joykill. "Yay I got the weapon drop and uber augs finally! Unyay, my mannequin will be rocking this item in 6 months time."

Results on Gaxe, used around 35 stones, at average 33k gil each.

Svarga : Accuracy +18 Store TP +5. [I'm very happy with this gaxe.]

Alluvion is fun, the bosses are cool. Being able to play most jobs and have casual players in runs for tier 3~4, is cool. The problem isn't the bosses random weapons, or the random augments. The problem is what will happen in a few months time when ilvl lurches upwards, and your precious weapon is used for chopping firewood.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I think Alluvion drop system on weapons, and random augments system, would be great. IF the gear was going to be useful in a years time. The reason it isn't so great, is because of the wider built-in-obsolescence problem in ilvl.

It would be worth it IF the weapons had a shelf-life of at least a year. But they don't either the weapons will not upgrade to 125, or the augments will be lost in the process. Either way its a monumental joykill. "Yay I got the weapon drop and uber augs finally! Unyay, my mannequin will be rocking this item in 6 months time."

Results on Gaxe, used around 35 stones, at average 33k gil each.

Svarga : Accuracy +18 Store TP +5. [I'm very happy with this gaxe.]

Alluvion is fun, the bosses are cool. Being able to play most jobs and have casual players in runs for tier 3~4, is cool. The problem isn't the bosses random weapons, or the random augments. The problem is what will happen in a few months time when ilvl lurches upwards, and your precious weapon is used for chopping firewood.

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this is basically the problem in a nutshell. If all rewards require us to grind to make them worthwhile only to be thrown away when about 1/3 of the playerbase have acquired them in favor of the next shiney item... well, eventually even the hamster on his wheel realizes that all the running in the world isn't going to get him anywhere, so they finally just get off, ignore the wheel, enjoy the food and just get fat and start to smell.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I think Alluvion drop system on weapons, and random augments system, would be great. IF the gear was going to be useful in a years time. The reason it isn't so great, is because of the wider built-in-obsolescence problem in ilvl.

It would be worth it IF the weapons had a shelf-life of at least a year. But they don't either the weapons will not upgrade to 125, or the augments will be lost in the process. Either way its a monumental joykill.

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Or the third option which they've already hinted at, the weapons will remain the same, but new stones will be added for more augments. I'm not going to dig for the post, but it was around the time Alluvion Rala and Cirdas was added. It said something along the lines of "moving forward, we will add ways to add additional augments to the weapons. We're also discussing adding helms and body armor to the next Skirmish." Or something along those lines. I'm pretty sure they learned from Skirmish 1's mistakes when it comes to wiping augments.

When ilvl first came around and the whole fear of things quickly being outdated popped up, I bit, I felt similarly. But for the most part, this has not been the case with FFXI. Skirmish 119 gear is still very useful, Delve 119s are still very useful, most 119 AF and relic is very useful (unless it sucked outta the gate, that's a different story ._.; ), etc. Most of these things are approaching their 1 year mark, or have long since past it such as Delve 1s 119s.

Not going to say things won't ever be outdated or anything, they surely will, the game steps forward. But carrying an irrational fear over losing out on your investment is only going to cause you to lose out on the benefits you'd have until something came along that was better, whether that's sooner or later.

And for some wild baseless speculation, this was posted in a .dat mining thread 6 months ago. My money's on it being the light armor set from Alluvion Skirmish. There's a similarly over-the-top styled concept art of heavy armor that was shown prior to SoA's release that I'd peg as the heavy Alluvion armor.

http://tehkrizz.net/FFXI/images/20140530_NewSet.png

And just cause I'm bored, here's the heavy armor mentioned.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...eae38f7e2e.JPG

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Originally Posted by Malithar

Or the third option which they've already hinted at, the weapons will remain the same, but new stones will be added for more augments. I'm not going to dig for the post, but it was around the time Alluvion Rala and Cirdas was added. It said something along the lines of "moving forward, we will add ways to add additional augments to the weapons. We're also discussing adding helms and body armor to the next Skirmish." Or something along those lines. I'm pretty sure they learned from Skirmish 1's mistakes when it comes to wiping augments.

When ilvl first came around and the whole fear of things quickly being outdated popped up, I bit, I felt similarly. But for the most part, this has not been the case with FFXI. Skirmish 119 gear is still very useful, Delve 119s are still very useful, most 119 AF and relic is very useful (unless it sucked outta the gate, that's a different story ._.; ), etc. Most of these things are approaching their 1 year mark, or have long since past it such as Delve 1s 119s.

Not going to say things won't ever be outdated or anything, they surely will, the game steps forward. But carrying an irrational fear over losing out on your investment is only going to cause you to lose out on the benefits you'd have until something came along that was better, whether that's sooner or later.

And for some wild baseless speculation, this was posted in a .dat mining thread 6 months ago. My money's on it being the light armor set from Alluvion Skirmish. There's a similarly over-the-top styled concept art of heavy armor that was shown prior to SoA's release that I'd peg as the heavy Alluvion armor.

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Re; Alluvion specifically, I do really love my h2h gaxe and twin axes. The actual weapons look stylish, I especially love the gaxe which is my favourite gaxe in FFXI for purely visual reasons, and it hits like a truck full of plump ppl, which is always nice. So I would be really happy to keep my Alluvion weapons for a long time and just scale them up the ilvl ladder.

I could live with having to get new augments, but I just don't want to keep getting new weapons all the time lol. Its not like the Knight Of Solamnia, where your Dad gives you a sword that his great-great-grandfather used, family weapon you will be holding in your hand when you fall. I'm not wanting a weapon for life, just one that has a few years of life in it.

my hamster wheel point-in addition to trying to be funny-was that things like the augmented gear still are generally not the best gear for the slot. Eventually, players get tired of endless grinding for an ALMOST piece and just spam fights for the dropped one with locked stats that generally IS the best piece in the slot. And as they seem to add a new piece like that with every MAJOR content addition even that piece changes. Working hard to get nowhere indeed...

I'm done with playing this game, random augment is very unappealing to me and many others. I haven't even bothered looking at what the base stats from the new skirmish equipment. February 2015 will become my last payment contribution to the game if there won't be any changes to the reward system.

Another note, obtaining 100 Job points for these new gifts are not worth the effort. I don't know what SE's market strategy on this game is, but it seems to me they are trying to get people to dislike the game so much,they want us to migrate to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Kaeviathan

I'm done with playing this game, random augment is very unappealing to me and many others. I haven't even bothered looking at what the base stats from the new skirmish equipment. February 2015 will become my last payment contribution to the game if there won't be any changes to the reward system.

Another note, obtaining 100 Job points for these new gifts are not worth the effort. I don't know what SE's market strategy on this game is, but it seems to me they are trying to get people to dislike the game so much,they want us to migrate to FFXIV.

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Back when they destroyed the community by making Abyssea lvl 30 instead of 75 they just assumed everyone was going to leave XI and migrate to XIV anyway (lolololol) so I'm not sure if they would make the same mistake so soon after.

But then again we did get the ilvl BS in XI so...

/wait&see

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Originally Posted by Kaeviathan

I'm done with playing this game, random augment is very unappealing to me and many others. I haven't even bothered looking at what the base stats from the new skirmish equipment. February 2015 will become my last payment contribution to the game if there won't be any changes to the reward system.

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QQ

Seeing as though you haven't even looked at the armor, I'm to assume you haven't bothered to try and augment it. Many people are getting very good augments out of +1 stones, and it's even possible to get good augments from NQ stones. This isn't nearly as bad as the original set of Skirmish armor. I really recommend you give it a shot.

Quick cheat sheet for augments:

Snow: Augment 1 - + combat stats such as +Acc, +Att, +MAB, +Def, +RAtt, etc
Leaf: Augment 2 - + unique stats such as Fast Cast, DA, STP, Conserve MP, TA, Snapshot, -Perp, etc
Dusk: Augment 3 - + base stats such as Str, Dex, Mnd, etc, as well as some unique stats such as WSD, BP+ damage, Occult Omen, etc

Slit: Melee augs
Tip: Ranged augs
Dim: Magic augs
Orb: Pet augs

It's possible to get a stat outside of what you'd expect, say MAB from a Snowslit stone, though it seems to be much rarer than it was on the weapons.

I did try trade 2 Refractive Crystals for an augmented cape, but all i got was one with STR+3, and another with DEX+3 on Yokhaze Mantle. I wasn't amused by the results.

The randomness is simply a way for them to draw out the limited content they release and make sure we keep dumping money each month to play the same content over and over again in hopes that RNGesus will grace us with better luck this time. It's this exact design methodology that helped drive me away from the game. After all, why put in time and money to experience the exact same frustration constantly?

In the time I've been gone, it seems like things have kept on the same way even. The only good content I've seen is Unity NMs, which seem to have fairly consistent rewards. But new Skirmish, Incursion Capes, it's still random. Even if my odds are seemingly better by narrowing the possibilities it doesn't help the fact that every bad augment I get as I make a vain effort to improve myself feels like little more than a kick to the groin. The best system they've had for augments since the game's inception was Delve's, it was a progression model as opposed to a random model. If they incorporated that into more events, I'd gladly put more time into the game and events like Skirmish. The fact I'm still playing with dice every time I try to make my gear suck less however? No thanks, it's not worth my time.

I'm seeing some really good augment with +1 and even NQ stones. But in addition to that, the event is actually pretty fun. It's definitely worth a try if you haven't given it a chance.

I've tried the new Skirmish, it's not terrible but I still don't like random. To be honest, the entire time I played FFXI over the years it's been on a POS laptop that barely runs even it. In the new Skirmish I have issues on top of the general lag from the zone being overcrowded due to being so new. If I liked the reward system, I might suffer through it if for no other reason than RDM finally got some of the melee gear I've been dying for. After all, that's what I've done with this game for years. That said, I don't like the reward system, so it's just adding another problem for me on top of others I already had.

I will be updating my sets on AH.com if anyone's interested in checking them out. But until I get a new PC, I won't likely be playing this game. Even then, unless the randomness is insanely better than before, I won't be sticking around for long. My experience thus far hasn't been terribly promising with augments, but I've not given it a ton of time, so it's entirely possible I'm not being fair to it.

In the end however, none of this changes the fact Delve's system is still far superior and worked. If there were a new form of Airlixirs with Delve II it would've lasted much longer and since they do that with Skirmish already with stones, the same design would've worked just fine. The fact they've not done anything like that annoys me greatly, I as though they tossed away the best system they had for the second best, which is a very disappointing choice.

I always preferred the days when gear was gear, what you saw was what you got. That guy has an Armadaberk? Well you knew exactly what it was.

But I've come to a realization that there are just too many types of stats and boosts that each player and playstyle is looking for that you couldn't really satisfy people as easily. You want melee RDM gear but a lot of people would want the typical enfeebling gear. Or 5 pieces of nuking gear. Or a balance of matk and macc. Or WS gear. Or enhancing magic duration gear. It's hard to satisfy such a wide breadth of demands these days and it can't just be solved with JSE because not everybody plays the same way. So I can see how this augment system could help address this situation, especially if you can get worthwhile bonuses with NQ and +1 stones.

I do wonder what effect it'll have on the popularity of other events though.

The thing is, while they solved these problems with this event, it's still random. Implementing a Delve like progression system for augments rather than the one they have now, allowing us to pick the augment path that we want and giving us a large number of them based on the different stones we use? It doesn't seem that hard, nor does it seem gamebreaking. In fact, it seems like it'd give this event the most longevity and make the best stats obtainable to everyone willing to invest, rather than being obtainable to only those lucky enough.

Yeah, that's definitely a good way to do it. I can't fault you for preferring that route, I'm on the fence myself.

I'm just typing to keep the post on the list of recent new posts.

There's no doubt that the random system and separate slots is a huge improvement over the predecessor, but, this new gear obsoleted so many things, and it's still such a pain to throw away millions in +2 stones and make no progress, them feeling like they were just wasted, I'd much prefer a building system, and finding a way to build in item longevity.

Someone said they learned from their augment-wiping mistakes but, that said, they may as well have wiped the last set of augments because the new augmenting system is so much better I doubt anyone is keeping their old, lower-cap augments on skirmish weapons.

Also the armor is all so frigging amazing that I want to have several sets of each... which is rather a painful way to feel about it, coupled with the random augments it's enough to make me pull my hair out.

That said, the actual process of doing the skirmish is SUPER FUN (to me) I love being the guy at the book spawning mobs and supporting them. But the gear, cool as it is, makes me feel bad in as many ways as it makes me feel good.

yeah, the play system is ok, hell I LIKE seeing mages getting some love again, but the reward system... not so much. better would be if the stones were a currency and you could use them to purchase the augments from the table, choosing the augments, and stack the stones, by that I mean use 2 +2 to buy higher in the range, etc. that satisfies the players who prefer to build towards a particular build, like the Trial of the Magians system we used to use to build your melee rdm mentioned above. just put in the time. of course, with SE wanting time sinks I guess having to spam it to get the random augment you actually want is better for SE.