Solution to "blinking"

OMG A THREAD NECROMANCER!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyaki

I can't believe some people still think stpt/stal can solve the problem entirely.
I use stpt/stal since the first day they came, I just tell you: that's not as easy as somebody ever thought, there are still problems.
I can't trust someone who claim to be playing support role jobs but don't understand how stpt/stal won't work with F# keys, how many times you need to hit your arrow keys and how hard to *guess* the distance between you and your target without using third party application if you can't see the arrow mark on your target.

---

Even without 3'rd party tools and direct targeting you have to guess the distance. So I don't understand what you'r talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyaki

Do not ever try to teach me how to play with macro, even since I can feel these problem, I cure MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE than some WHMs who may not think blinking is a problem.
And I do write my own code parser in my work, if you really have question on my "macro" skill.

---

What do you want to say? You don't like to use macros or alternative ways of targeting?
Let the DD's die but don't blame the game for your playstyle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyaki

Blinking is a problem unless you use BlinkMeNot. If you don't admit it, you are not really playing support role jobs.
Can handle the cure job doesn't mean we should ignore the problem.

---

Again - It's part of your playstyle. Not mine and I don't feel that it is that bad. I can use alternative ways like the allready named one and I don't need a 3'rd party tool for that. Regardles of low men events or full alliances.

Remember cause the traffic light is red - it's up to you if you want to cross or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

Even without 3'rd party tools and direct targeting you have to guess the distance. So I don't understand what you'r talking about.

---

normal tagetting brings up the gold arrow on the character so you can see how far away he/she is. <stpt/stal> brings up a little blue arrow on pt/alliance sidebar that gives you no indication of where the character actually is. If for instance all of the melee run in to blitz you might not be able to see the guy you're targeting.

Quote:

---

What do you want to say? You don't like to use macros or alternative ways of targeting?
Let the DD's die but don't blame the game for your playstyle.

---

I think you read that incorrectly.

Quote:

---

Again - It's part of your playstyle. Not mine and I don't feel that it is that bad. I can use alternative ways like the allready named one and I don't need a 3'rd party tool for that. Regardles of low men events or full alliances.

---

Play style doesn't matter. Unless you use blinkmenot you have to use half-assed workarounds to effectively heal.
Just because There are imperfect solutions doesnt mean we should stop trying to fix the problem.

Not being shown visually where the target is is probably the most annoying thing about stal/stpt. The other is that F1-F6 is much quicker, was it not for the chance of losing your target when something blinks.

As a supporter I'm not interested where my target is. That's not my job/concern.
I'm supposed to heal and support and not watch a beautifull landscape therefor it's easiere to target with the little blue arrow cause I'll stop right there where my spell should land regardless of where my target is right now (left, right, in front or in my back and that's what you can't do with the other arrow)

And I didn't read it incorrectly - to get personel - you blame the game for the fact that it didn't match your playstyle. But the game is out there for years and you'r still not adepted?

And again - there are severeal workarounds that work even better than direct targeting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

As a supporter I'm not interested where my target is. That's not my job/concern.
I'm supposed to heal and support and not watch a beautifull landscape therefor it's easiere to target with the little blue arrow cause I'll stop right there where my spell should land regardless of where my target is right now (left, right, in front or in my back and that's what you can't do with the other arrow)

---

If my target is out of range, that is of interest to me. As a SCH who has AoE buffs/cures, I need to know where my target(s) is(/are) so I can hit everyone I need to hit. You CAN do all of those things with the gold arrow -- as long as no one blinks.

Quote:

---

And I didn't read it incorrectly - to get personel - you blame the game for the fact that it didn't match your playstyle. But the game is out there for years and you'r still not adepted?

---

Well for starters you weren't responding to me, but it seems to me that you did indeed read it incorrectly. He uses macros and uses them to the best of his ability. Sure we're blaming the game for having a lametarded targetting system. but he says (as it seems to me) that he uses the workarounds and keeps everyone healthy. You accused him of letting the DDs die, which as I read it was nowhere in his post.

I shouldn't be defending another person anyway, so take it up with him.

Quote:

---

And again - there are severeal workarounds that work even better than direct targeting.

---

Such as? Writing the tanks name into your macros? Making a macro for every <p1-x> in the alliance?

I'd rather use blinkmenot, saves a lot of time and headache.

Hey guys, reverse ergonomics is cool!

But do you know what I think would be really fun? If the game controls were right mouse button to run left, space to run right, and escape to move forward. It's no problem, we just have to get used to it!

You should never select party/alliance members with right or left. UP and DOWN only! You should be able to target them even if they aren't on the screen. You can't using LEFT or RIGHT so you use UP and DOWN.

If you are too far away... try /follow <lastst>. Remember also to use /lockon and auto targeting. You toggle the lock with the heal key/button.

You can? Cool.

So all you say is - cause the game has to load the whole character while the player is exzessive gearchanging - it's the games fault that you have to use 3rd party tools (btw. they are forbidden) or have let to die someone cause you'r not willing to use a workaround?

Sorry to say this again - but it's your playstile that didn't adept to the game. You can't drive on the right side while everyone is forced to use the left side by law. Learn to deal with it but don't blame anyone else but you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

So all you say is - cause the game has to load the whole character while the player is exzessive gearchanging - it's the games fault that you have to use 3rd party tools (btw. they are forbidden) or have let to die someone cause you'r not willing to use a workaround?

Sorry to say this again - but it's your playstile that didn't adept to the game. You can't drive on the right side while everyone is forced to use the left side by law. Learn to deal with it but don't blame anyone else but you.

---

The purpose of these forums is feedback from the community. Part of that is pointing out mistakes and flaws in the current game design, not how adept we are at adapting to those flaws. Workarounds exists, and people use them, but they don't have to be happy about it.

The forum mods also answered to this issue and you still complain knowingly that to correct this issue would mean that the whole game has to be rewritten what also would mean that at least for the next 12 month nothing new would be implemented cause of a simple game mechanic you start to dislike after 5? 6? 7? 8? 9? years?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

The forum mods also answered to this issue and you still complain knowingly that to correct this issue would mean that the whole game has to be rewritten what also would mean that at least for the next 12 month nothing new would be implemented cause of a simple game mechanic you start to dislike after 5? 6? 7? 8? 9? years?

---

They didn't say the game would need to be rewritten, they didn't say anything other than "won't do it right now". And we know for a fact, that the whole game would not have to be rewritten, but that solutions exist which are small and efficient and were developed by people who don't even have access to the game's own source code.

And we've always disliked this, only before these forums people didn't have any real means to communicate with SE.

Edit:
And to answer your question, personally I would love SE if they took a year off to release FFXIv2.

The people who wrote the 3'rd party tool just disabled a function of the game itself.
That's not the solution - it's just another workaround.
Blinking wasn't a problem until 3'rd party tools became common.

So the solution - and I agree with you - would be to implement an option to disable the refresh of your/partymembers/others character models.
But then again:
- How could you tell that you/a certain partymember/aso. got (partialy) striped?
- How could you tell that you/a certain partymember/aso. use the right weapon (since it's part of the charactermodel)?

In the end - BMN is a halfhearted workaround and not a solution since you can't answer the two questions above without exzessively checking yourself/others or even more exzessively gearswaping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

The people who wrote the 3'rd party tool just disabled a function of the game itself.
That's not the solution - it's just another workaround.
Blinking wasn't a problem until 3'rd party tools became common.

So the solution - and I agree with you - would be to implement an option to disable the refresh of your/partymembers/others character models.
But then again:
- How could you tell that you/a certain partymember/aso. got (partialy) striped?
- How could you tell that you/a certain partymember/aso. use the right weapon (since it's part of the charactermodel)?

In the end - BMN is a halfhearted workaround and not a solution since you can't answer the two questions above without exzessively checking yourself/others or even more exzessively gearswaping.

---

It's definitely not perfect, but SE's lazy try at a workaround, which was <stal>, is even worse. There are "perfect" ways to do it, which would be still allowing characters to blink, but not lose the target. We already know you can target objects without models (like before a player model loads or targets that don't have a model like ???s). So we already know the tools are there, it's just a matter of using them. No one wants the blinking to stop, we just want to be able to target people through blinking. That's the real issue, and that is the issue to which the mods haven't even replied yet, which is what frustrates me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

But then again:
- How could you tell that you/a certain partymember/aso. got (partialy) striped?
- How could you tell that you/a certain partymember/aso. use the right weapon (since it's part of the charactermodel)?

---

/blockblink on
Characters will only reload their model when a weapon is swapped or they are out of sight and not targetted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

It's definitely not perfect, but SE's lazy try at a workaround, which was <stal>, is even worse. There are "perfect" ways to do it, which would be still allowing characters to blink, but not lose the target. We already know you can target objects without models (like before a player model loads or targets that don't have a model like ???s). So we already know the tools are there, it's just a matter of using them. ...

---

The problem is you'll lose your target when it get's invisible (spell/tools) and that's part of the game and it's ok (for invisible).
And the game itself doesn't distinguish between the spell/tool and/or a gearswap cause it's the same sub (has to reload the charactermodel anyway).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

The problem is you'll lose your target when it get's invisible (spell/tools) and that's part of the game and it's ok (for invisible).
And the game itself doesn't distinguish between the spell/tool and/or a gearswap cause it's the same sub (has to reload the charactermodel anyway).

---

You don't lose target on invisible, and it's not the same thing. It still has a model loaded when invisible (which you notice because the cursor isn't on the floor, which it would be if the target model didn't load yet), the model is saved but just set to transparent.

You loose target in case your target becomes invisible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

You loose target in case your target becomes invisible.

---

Auto-follow + Invisible = Dead Man Walking!

You don't lose target when someone casts invisible, just when they swap gear. Your auto-follow cancels, however.

But that's what target-lock is for :3

Still the same issue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Retsujo

You don't lose target when someone casts invisible, just when they swap gear. Your auto-follow cancels, however.

---

That's what I've been trying to tell them. Going invisible will not lose your target. If you're on /follow, it'll cancel, but that has nothing at all to do with targetting, since you can target anything you want while you /follow someone else. And, in fact, it will still not lose the target, just cancel the running. You can see this easiest if you "ghetto-follow" (auto-run + target lock), then you won't lose target, and thus you'll keep following them even if they go invisible.

In case your target get's invisible - you'll lose target regardless what you do. You still can target but that's not the question cause you also can target a blinking target.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

In case your target get's invisible - you'll lose target regardless what you do. You still can target but that's not the question cause you also can target a blinking target.

---

But you... don't... lost target when someone goes invisible (Spell, Ninjutsu, Jig, etc). Only when they blink from swapping gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Retsujo

But you... don't... lost target when someone goes invisible (Spell, Ninjutsu, Jig, etc). Only when they blink from swapping gear.

---

That's what I've been trying to say the last five posts. You do not lose target on invisible, not under any circumstance. Either he doesn't believe it or.. something else, I don't know.

Maybe it would satisfy Ihnako if after this issue was fixed, there would be an option to keep target loss when blinking, so that s/he could keep this fantastic feature.

Also, lol at "no gear swap before 3rd party tools". If SE didn't want us to swap, they could just implement a 10 second delay for stats to take effect when changing gear.

Admit it, Ihnako:
We are not playing the same game.

Or you are just trolling here.

I am one of those so-called "good healer" who doesn't really need BlinkMeNot to handle the job, I played support role jobs long enough without using any third party tools.
But wrong means wrong, nothing can change it.
And <stpc> really works better than <stpt>/<stal> in many cases, if you have a heart of REAL supporter, you KNOW what I mean.
Also, I never lose my targets due to casting Invisible on them.
Try and learn it yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirage

Maybe it would satisfy Ihnako if after this issue was fixed, there would be an option to keep target loss when blinking, so that s/he could keep this fantastic feature.

Also, lol at "no gear swap before 3rd party tools". If SE didn't want us to swap, they could just implement a 10 second delay for stats to take effect when changing gear.

---

I really think SE should implement a delay, since I believe SE doesn't want us to swap too.
But "no gear swap before 3rd party tools"? Who said that? What does that mean?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyaki

Admit it, Ihnako:
We are not playing the same game.

Or you are just trolling here.

---

Obviously cause I don't need (forbidden) 3'rd party tools to be a good supporter.

EDIT: Nobody said "no gear swaping before 3'rd party tools." But with 3'rd party tools it got overboard/easier since you can swap gear with one button considering day/weather/weapon/food/aso.

3rd party tools has nothing to do with the fact that you do not lose target when someone gains the status enhancement of invisible, so I don't understand your argument.

Question... has it ever occurred to anyone that maybe you should swap the 8 gears pieces that lead to your character "blinking" less often? Or just focus on swapping the gear that doesn't make you "blink" like rings and waist/back gear? I mean this is a non issue for the most part. Adjust your style of play just a little... and everyone will be a little happier...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laraul

Question... has it ever occurred to anyone that maybe you should swap the 8 gears pieces that lead to your character "blinking" less often? Or just focus on swapping the gear that doesn't make you "blink" like rings and waist/back gear? I mean this is a non issue for the most part. Adjust your style of play just a little... and everyone will be a little happier...

---

No, it has not occurred to me. It has not occurred to me to play worse, to not have to deal with flaws in the game. It still doesn't occur to me. And if it occurs to you, then you just admitted yourself that you're, knowingly and willingly, a worse player than you could be.

Swapping gear is a "Problem" for a reason, and anyone who doesn't take full advantage of swapping the gear they have to some other gear they have that better enhances the ability/spell you're about to use is just plain being lazy. Why would you settle for less when you could do so much more?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyaki

I really think SE should implement a delay, since I believe SE doesn't want us to swap too.
But "no gear swap before 3rd party tools"? Who said that? What does that mean?

---

Ihnako said that, i was disagreeing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirage

Ihnako said that, i was disagreeing.

---

In posting?
In case you quote quote with the right lines and not what you'r wishing.

Don't see why i should have to. Don't you read your own posts?

I read my own and I never wrote what you imply.
So - where and when - posting #?

You can't so you'r spreading a misstatement.
Have fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ihnako

The people who wrote the 3'rd party tool just disabled a function of the game itself.
That's not the solution - it's just another workaround.
Blinking wasn't a problem until 3'rd party tools became common.

So the solution - and I agree with you - would be to implement an option to disable the refresh of your/partymembers/others character models.
But then again:
- How could you tell that you/a certain partymember/aso. got (partialy) striped?
- How could you tell that you/a certain partymember/aso. use the right weapon (since it's part of the charactermodel)?

In the end - BMN is a halfhearted workaround and not a solution since you can't answer the two questions above without exzessively checking yourself/others or even more exzessively gearswaping.

---

I think this is what he was referring to.

That may be - but I still didn't say what he/she implyed.
Cause "Blinking wasn't a problem until 3'rd party tools became common."
#1 Most people are too lazy to hit more than one macro for one action they want to perform.
#2 You have to deal with a limited line number and a limited set of accessibe macros. (before the big patch 200 macros at all, now 4.000)
#3 The majority played the game on PS2 or XBOX who can't use anything other than that what the game comes with.

With the ability to write macros that have an infinit number of lines and/or a scripted/(half)automated system where you can even change your whole gear by what you want to do without worrying about what day/weather/time/aso it is, more people became blinking on a regular basis.