109/119 Empyrean Armor, Can we have it?

It's the reason most of my mage jobs dont have any or very little ilv parts due to knowing emp reforge is happening. I wish they would give us a hint as to when so fence sitters can then choose. Another big reason for me is I've been stuck on whm since it hit 70 back when Sky LSes were still a thing. So everything but whm hasn't gotten much attention.

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Originally Posted by Protey

overgeneralize much? I have no problem gearswapping when WSing, buffing, and the like. It's the time dependent swaps i don't like.... like swapping gear just because it's a certain time of day.

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Not many do those swaps though, only the most OCD.

I thought they would of gone the route of sky/sea gear upgrades before Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by MDenham

I may have an idea of why it's actually taking so long:

They intend to include it with the first raise in the iLevel cap.

The delay makes more sense if NQ reforged Empy is going to be, say, 115 or 117, with the HQ at 129 instead.

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Higher ilevel? No thanks. I'd like some more horizontal progression. I am strongly disliking the vertical progression as it just fragments the playerbase. I miss having a lot of ways to get to a reasonable level of power.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Higher ilevel? No thanks. I'd like some more horizontal progression. I am strongly disliking the vertical progression as it just fragments the playerbase. I miss having a lot of ways to get to a reasonable level of power.

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FFXI is a vertical progression MMO now, just gotta deal with that.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Higher ilevel? No thanks. I'd like some more horizontal progression. I am strongly disliking the vertical progression as it just fragments the playerbase. I miss having a lot of ways to get to a reasonable level of power.

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They've said higher iLevel is coming in the future. (I believe it was mentioned in conjunction with RME weapons, if that helps you find the post where they mentioned it.)

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Originally Posted by Pixela

FFXI is a vertical progression MMO now, just gotta deal with that.

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I disagree. A year ago it was becoming a vertical progression and we complained to the point they put a swift stop to it. Voice our disdain for future vertical progression and we may very well be able to prevent that from ever happening, or at least lessen the severity to which it occurs.

Once you add a vertical progression system and your players get used to that system you can't just go back to horizontal progression.

Players need a prod to do content, stronger gear is the prod. You may not like it but like many things (solo play, casual aspects and QoL things) once you give them you can't take them away. All the old aspects of FFXI that worked for so long worked because almost all the players knew no different, that isn't the case anymore.

Old FFXI, a new piece of gear with +1 str and +5slow more than what you already had was incentive enough to do content. If you really think adding a +1 str/+5slow to a piece of gear will be enough of a lure endgamers these days you're in for a shock next update when they add 120 gear.

For years we maintained a cap of 75. It was broken, we had a vertical climb for 24 levels, and it flattened out at 99. It stayed at 99 for a nice two to three years if I remember correctly, and people did content as it came out provided the gear was worth obtaining. This is where I had most of my experience so I'll actually say something about that. Pieces like those found in Nyzul, Salvage, and Voidwatch were highly sought after, mistakes were made with some content such as Legion and Meeble Burrows with undesirable gear that made the content unpopular. Making gear worthwhile isn't exactly hard, in fact I could give you a list of things from 99 that are still missing 119 variants today which they could make to continue having incentive for players to do new content. In either case they broke the 99 cap to 119 and it stopped there thanks to our complaints and has stood there for a year.

To say once you add one you can't just go back isn't quite true, it's what they already did. Them breaking the cap again would be more flip floppy than anything, as they've already changed from vertical back to horizontal right after Delve was released last year and complaints flooded the forums like no other time in my history on here. This means to break the cap would be changing it yet again, flipping back to vertical for a short time and likely going right back to horizontal at another static number such as 128 or 129, leaving it there for another year. That year would allow content like Delve and Salvage to catch up in item levels, them to add new gear, increase the levels of our JSE, and add new events, only to then break the cap once more later on.

The problem with this is it's not necessary. I mean both for the players and for SE in general the best way to do this would be to let 119 last as long as possible because players already showed a demand for horizontal progression rather than vertical and at the same time they've still things to do at 119. An example of this is Empyrean gear. Currently the theory seems to be that Empyrean will be introduced after the level increase, thus allowing players to have Empyrean gear already at the new cap rather than having to upgrade it to 109, 119, then finally the new cap. The thing is it'd actually be better for SE to do it now and have us do that. It creates more content for 119, it allows them more content to later potentially recycle or at least to keep the players busy, and it by itself would be an update many players would participate in the content for without a doubt since Empyrean gear for almost every job would be amazing. The only flaw is if they left it with chapters being the requirement, which would mean most players would already have the pieces finished on day one outside of crafting materials.



The main problem I see with vertical progression in general is this playerbase. People think that increasing the cap every few updates will make people want to do the content more because they need to keep up with the gear, they need to go do that new content for that amazing body with 10 more STR! But here's the thing, what do we have to do to get that gear? It's an important question. I personally for instance am one of the people who never invested much gil into my Skirmish gear, not because of a lack of need, I mean RDM getting +30 MAB on each piece would be amazing, but with the constant overpowered gear released I had no want to spend my time on something like that. Why spend my time doing content for days, weeks, or months, spending millions upon millions of gil or hundreds of hours doing content for items that will in a month or two be taken down a peg by a piece of gear that for all I know will cost me 100,000 Plasm that I can pick up in under a hour in a shout group? In the end it's really a matter of how hard we work for the items in this game. If every item were easy to get and it got outdated, then sure, I'd not care much if they raised the cap every little bit and tried a vertical progression system, but that's not FFXI. FFXI has always been a game that absorbs a ton of time for minimal reward. If that minimal reward can be outdated by a simple update adding an extra 10 levels to a bunch of gear and those levels bringing with them inflated stats that have no equal, then why do the long term content in the first place? I myself think too many things are far too long term in this game, such as Mythics, but there are too many people who oppose changes to those things vehemently so I doubt it will ever change, and if they don't change, the horizontal design shouldn't either, as a vertical design with extremely high amounts of work required to obtain the rewards only serves to dissuade players from participating, not persuade.

Insignificant anecdotal evidence here but... I myself and a few people I know have had no interest in playing since the last update really. More content with gear based on random augments didn't appeal to us. The idea of having the level cap increase only made things worse. I personally however see no point in doing any 119 content at this point or working on any 119 gear when in the next few months it'll all be meaningless. Outside of my JSE nothing is likely to be updated, so why bother? This is a mentality that is poisonous to content both already present and to be released, and it's not likely exclusive to me. I've logged on less than 10 hours total since the update, I normally(a month ago) played 4~8 hours a day. The idea of raising the cap has killed my want to play, just think of what actually doing it will do...

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Originally Posted by Shirai

And the pendant gives 25 TP per tick (new count), that by itself is also overpowered as hell from melee perspective.

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Avatars don't weapon every 1000 TP and don't accumulate tp as fast as melee players. It's far from overpowered.

I would be all for extreme avatar fights though! It would be nice if there was new content that encouraged fighting the avatars for new equipment or possibly spells, abilities, stats or other job specific bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

An example of this is Empyrean gear. Currently the theory seems to be that Empyrean will be introduced after the level increase, thus allowing players to have Empyrean gear already at the new cap rather than having to upgrade it to 109, 119, then finally the new cap. The thing is it'd actually be better for SE to do it now and have us do that. It creates more content for 119, it allows them more content to later potentially recycle or at least to keep the players busy, and it by itself would be an update many players would participate in the content for without a doubt since Empyrean gear for almost every job would be amazing.

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The problem is that, as far as existing Empyrean gear, you could literally just slap iLevel 109 on the +2 set and call it done. (Trying to shoehorn some additional stat boosts in there is going to make it outclass pretty much everything else at 109 anyway, as well as some stuff up into the 113-115 range.)

So if they're adding in NQ/HQ reforged for Empyrean gear, there are two options that make sense:

* NQ is 113, HQ is 119; or
* NQ is 115+, HQ is 120+.

The former... is even narrower in scope than any sidegrade introduced since iLevel (and, really, is narrower than a lot of sidegrades before iLevel), while the latter basically is "and now we have to add in +2 reforged AF/relic to maintain variety" (among other things).

I just wish SE would switch over to a system more like Skirmish's for upgrading all event items - you obtain a KI in the new event, you can turn it in along with a drop from an older event to get an upgraded version - because even though that means any intermediate upgrading gets lost, it keeps gear reasonably up to date.

Yeah, My question is will we be getting any more news on whats going on with this thus far, Will we be hearing anything more on this anytime soon!? I wonder if anyones heard any more news on this happening and involvements in processes going on as well!? :rolleyes: {:confused: Thanks!}

It would be nice if there was! Dancer's new flourish recasts and buffs are nice and useful, but they would be nicer and more useful if we had 119 Empyrean head+bodies to go with them.

I know they had said a few times in a past they were hesitant to do any more "upgrade past equipment" things anymore, but I think with Empyrean Armor that should be an exception, and RUN/GEO still need those Empyrean sets we were teased for from that concept art.

I also would think it'd be kinda cool if they could make Pulse items outside of maybe one or two relevant again, but I'm sure most people would hate that because of how few people actually own those. I guess I just kinda liked looking at those.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello!

While I can't give you a specific implementation time at the moment, rest assured that Empyrean armor reforging is on the way!

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Prob another event specific for 4-5 jobs in the game only.

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

Prob another event specific for 4-5 jobs in the game only.

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I sure hope not. That might be what is taking so long. I HOPE they realize that ALL JOBS really need empy armor. Would be nice if we could all participate in the event dropping the needed items. A new voidwatch would be nice, would simultaneously create more supply of cinders, dross and plates while also giving everyone the opportunity to participate.

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

Prob another event specific for 4-5 jobs in the game only.

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I'm hoping they stay with the current mechanism. I've been stockpiling rather than using my chapters in anticipation of this, especially for the bard set. As Olor said before not really any great JSE off AF or Relic for that job. and even the stat vomit as others call it is nice, because trying to perform at peak without 20 levels worth of that leaves us lacking, it doesn't add a lot but it does add to skills, so for example it might help me land Frazzle off brd/rdm without needing a threnody 1st on boss mobs, handy if you don't have a rdm main in the group and other casters have better things to do, like healing the tank.

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Originally Posted by MDenham

The problem is that, as far as existing Empyrean gear, you could literally just slap iLevel 109 on the +2 set and call it done.

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Not the Raider's, even the Eminent set outclasses it massively.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...onnet_%2B2.png

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...s_vest%2B2.png

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ranslation.JPG

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ottes_%2B2.png

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...aines_%2B2.png

Then again THF-centric sets have never been good and I doubt that will change with the ilev 119 Raider's what with all the glorious evasion AGI and +steal/mug/larceny/treasure hunter they will most assuredly pile onto it at the expense of stats which are actually useful.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

I'm hoping they stay with the current mechanism. I've been stockpiling rather than using my chapters in anticipation of this, especially for the bard set. As Olor said before not really any great JSE off AF or Relic for that job. and even the stat vomit as others call it is nice, because trying to perform at peak without 20 levels worth of that leaves us lacking, it doesn't add a lot but it does add to skills, so for example it might help me land Frazzle off brd/rdm without needing a threnody 1st on boss mobs, handy if you don't have a rdm main in the group and other casters have better things to do, like healing the tank.

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The thing that annoys me about ilev is that you are literally better off wearing statless ilev119 gear than non or lower ilev gear with good stats. ilev > anything else basically.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello!

While I can't give you a specific implementation time at the moment, rest assured that Empyrean armor reforging is on the way!

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Bump, Almost 7 months since you've stated Empyrean armor reforging is on the way, Happen to have any new/up to date information on this?

would love to have this happen

Please add soon SE

many thanks ♥

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Originally Posted by Allestra

would love to have this happen

Please add soon SE

many thanks ♥

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Originally Posted by InpendingDeath

Bump, Almost 7 months since you've stated Empyrean armor reforging is on the way, Happen to have any new/up to date information on this?

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I as well have started to give up in this ever happening but wanting it to still happen with all of the areas that even the minor ammo/ranged, neck, ears, back, that they cover as its considered a complete empyrean set into reforged versions and maybe rings, weapons can be a part of the set as well. Maybe Adoulin style augmenting perhaps is another method that could considered being included on to them even after they've gone through there reforged versions, if they ever come out, it would be nice to add still now. Id love to know how much closer there coming along with these even if they still cant say an exact time & date, any news would be great as to know where they are at these even if it was no time announced tid-bits of news on these would be a step forward, I think!? Speaking of weapons, I have yet to see SE come up with a reforged versions of the artifact job weapons which you have to obtain first before you can get the rest of your artifact gear's while those AF-weapons just remain on our moogle storage slips because of no longer in use or no longer useful way before 60-99 even on most all jobs. :eek:

{Just a on the Side Note}: I have recently begun to start in stopping my wearing of my blue-mage versions of the empy +2 gears now from not being any closer to hearing about them actually succeeding in being any further with it, even if they were to release small parts of the pieces to the sets, it still would be a step forward even if its at small margins at a time. :o

They were a higher level but by the same token, base pieces, relic were higher level than AF.

AF: 52-60
Relic: 71-75
AF+1: 74
Relic+1: 75
Empy: 81-89
Relic+2: 90

So in actuality a fully upgraded relic piece before reforging is at a higher level than Empyrean armour.

Thank Altana its coming march update!
The blurb didn't mention GEO/RUN equivalents, is this still forthcoming as well?

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Originally Posted by Mnejing

Thank Altana its coming march update!
The blurb didn't mention GEO/RUN equivalents, is this still forthcoming as well?

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Do you have actual confirmation, or are you just guessing at this because of the picture on the official site with the tarus wearing AF3?

Aaaaaaand I need to learn how to read lol. Right there in the message was reforged Empy armor.

Now the question is....

How will it be made?
Rems chapters still?
Or some other harder method?

I doubt it will be higher then lv 119, but who knows. Maybe the long delay was setting both 109 and 119 versions at release and balancing it because some of the pieces are really awesome for their respective jobs. Didn't the relic and AF come in batches? 109 first, then 119 in a later update?

I imagine the delay was less about specific pieces and more what to do about the set bonuses - something the other JSE armor sets didn't need to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Ramzi

Do you have actual confirmation, or are you just guessing at this because of the picture on the official site with the tarus wearing AF3?

Aaaaaaand I need to learn how to read lol. Right there in the message was reforged Empy armor.

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Yes It's stated it will be coming March update.

it's fairly certain it will be with Rem chapters, the question is what will the additional material for upgrade come from.

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Originally Posted by Protey

it's fairly certain it will be with Rem chapters, the question is what will the additional material for upgrade come from.

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I'm betting abyssea materials. Perhaps materials from a given zone the base item would be found in.
(NPC vendor, chest, etc..)

I do worry it will be tied to materials found in new content for Seekers though, but that might alienate a portion of the population, unless they want empy reforge to be more exclusive, but I doubt that.

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Originally Posted by Bluestar2kx

I do worry it will be tied to materials found in new content for Seekers though, but that might alienate a portion of the population, unless they want empy reforge to be more exclusive, but I doubt that.

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For what reason do you think it being tied to SoA content would alienate people?

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Originally Posted by Malithar

For what reason do you think it being tied to SoA content would alienate people?

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Because not everyone has seekers, or does the content, for example, if their gear isn't "up to par".
Making it more available through other content like the AF/relic materials are, is far more accommodating, because everyone can access it.

Just my thoughts anyway.

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Originally Posted by Bluestar2kx

Because not everyone has seekers, or does the content, for example, if their gear isn't "up to par".
Making it more available through other content like the AF/relic materials are, is far more accommodating, because everyone can access it.

Just my thoughts anyway.

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Except that kinda kills the point you're making. If relic and AF reforged are so accommodating that everyone can access it, then why wouldn't they have it going into this? A good bit of it is still very good, and while you won't see 5/5 AF/Relic being part of any top end set, it's not that bad either. You make it sound as though simply being tied to SoA content would prevent people doing it since they don't have the top end gear, when nothing in this game requires anywhere near the top end gear.

I'm guessing new pop items that generate super hard annoying versions of abyssea or VW monsters. Or even worse, pop items that have to be purchased with job points.

Please let there not be any weakness trigger condition (!! !! !!).

Just make it the same as the current af/relic reforging system, please Camate. ;_;

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Originally Posted by Dawezy

Just make it the same as the current af/relic reforging system, please Camate. ;_;

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I can almost guarantee you that it won't be rems chapters.

Gonna call it now, it'll be new high level content in Abyssea and designing this new system is what has taken so long. Basically it'll be Abyssea II with timed spawns and farming pops for the low tiers and building pop sets for ilev 130+ mega bosses.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think that I am.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I can almost guarantee you that it won't be rems chapters.

Gonna call it now, it'll be new high level content in Abyssea and designing this new system is what has taken so long. Basically it'll be Abyssea II with timed spawns and farming pops for the low tiers and building pop sets for ilev 130+ mega bosses.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think that I am.

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Plus side, Capacity Points in Abyssea?

My prediction is that the first wave of reforged Empyrean AF will be ilevel 119 using rems chapters, and likely VW drops. BUT... in a future patch, which coincides with the ilevel going up, they will increase the gear to i128 (just a guess) and this will involve some new content. Possibly abyssea V2 but could be anything really.

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Originally Posted by Ramzi

My prediction is that the first wave of reforged Empyrean AF will be ilevel 119 using rems chapters, and likely VW drops. BUT... in a future patch, which coincides with the ilevel going up, they will increase the gear to i128 (just a guess) and this will involve some new content. Possibly abyssea V2 but could be anything really.

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I doubt it because Empyrean gear was always upgraded via the Magian Moogles where +1 and +2 AF and Relic was upgraded by the Tenshodo NPCs in Port Jeuno. So it makes sense that the ilev 109 and 119 versions would also be handled by the Tenshodo, but it would not make sense for the empyrean gear to be upgraded in this way.

Also, people have a lot of chapters stockpiled up and my feeling is that SE knows this and doesn't want people just just go dump them into Empyrean gear on the first day, they want people to work for it.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I doubt it because Empyrean gear was always upgraded via the Magian Moogles where +1 and +2 AF and Relic was upgraded by the Tenshodo NPCs in Port Jeuno. So it makes sense that the ilev 109 and 119 versions would also be handled by the Tenshodo, but it would not make sense for the empyrean gear to be upgraded in this way.

Also, people have a lot of chapters stockpiled up and my feeling is that SE knows this and doesn't want people just just go dump them into Empyrean gear on the first day, they want people to work for it.

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That's just because the magian trials didn't exist back then. When they did decided to make further upgrades for relic it was with magian. And I bet a lot of people had stockpiled chapters before relic upgrades too and we see they did the same thing just made it use materials from new delve and old vw.

My prediction still using the rems but they will be the least of your worries as the materials you need will be some rarish drops from the new battle content combined with something silly from old content like lol legion drops or maybe put something that drops off of higher end NMs in abyssea. Or probably just do UNMs since that seems to be their thing lately. There will even probably be an option to either go straight from +1 (maybe even NQ) that would cost a lot more of something... maybe a HMP lol. Either way we'll see soon enough