Reforged AF - Blocked on Step 1?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crevox

Then let me fight him without going through a ton of time gated quests first.

---

I'd agree on the removal of JPM, but won't agree to letting you fight the LAST @#%*ing boss of a story arch without going through it. >_<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

This depends on the piece of gear, look at Login Campaigns, they have supplied us with the ability to get any piece of Xar or Beau piece of gear for some time now, and continue to do so, this is what I was refering to, my new character which is account is based on literally has not stepped foot in Dynamis, completed rank 3, or even hit level 50, yet on a whim I have access to the Relic Body & Head for RDM which are by far the most important pieces of that entire set, and in reality, the only two pieces that have not been replaced for the job as of yet. THF can do the same with the TH hands and other jobs have a similar situation but I care not to look into each piece, while I admit every piece can not be obtained without Dynamis, a few can.

This player base dwindles in time as all games do, which means we need more players to take their place. Now I am all for reasonable requirements, I personally have no problem whatsoever with Alex, Odin, Dynamis, Limbus, or any other piece of content in this game having its requirements to do it so long as its reasonable and makes sense. What I am talking about being stupid here, is the fact that you need Sea access, that it, access for an event completely unrelated to any item required for AF enhancements to RF, in order to upgrade your AF gear.

Since when did RF upgrades have anything to do with Limbus? Show me 1 item that requires Limbus to obtain that is used in the process of upgrading a normal piece of AF into RF gear.

People play a game to have fun, everyone's sense of fun is different, if you find fun in going through hours upon hours or even days upon days of quests to get to basic gear that you had the items ready for, but lacked a simple quest being finished before the NPC would allow you to turn it in, then awesome, but most do not. I have quite a few friends I have tried to get into this game before that I know on Xbox and otherwise, I have had a 0% success rate with getting people into it due to the fact that every single one who got the game has played a month, told me its taking to long to get to a point of understanding what they are doing/need to do in the game to progress and the fact that everything is so drawn out to get to a decent point that they just can not bother to spend that much time starting a game.

Most games nowadays let you jump into the game and play it with others after a short period of time, this game, forces you to do old content that is easy by any stretch of the imagination and literally feels like a waste of time, its boring to most, and you have no choice but to do it in order to get to the point in the game where you can actually play with others, even then, things still suck because until you figure out how to gear and play in specific events you will be looked down upon and called gimp by everyone around you. The learning curve in this game sucks and the amount you need to do before you can even start to really play it and feel welcome in the game normally is absurd. They have helped to fix some of these things through systems such as Trust which help get people into the game faster, but if you truly think that people should be patient and enthused about playing a game and trying to get into it after the 10+ hours it takes to install and update on top of the days it will take you to get to a point of playing with others in a decent way, I think you're out of your mind.

I seriously can not for the life of me understand why such a simple improvement that makes sense is being so heavily opposed by people when the original complaint was about a requirement that doesn't even make sense!

---

They have been adding things left and right for people to skip past much of the grind. Hell reforge gear is not any where near be all end all and burning though a little grind to get to it is not that bad. In fact SE has done away with much of the content being locked behind mission progression. All the endgame content in SoA is opened either right from the start or after a few simple steps. Also when they do try that people throw all kinds of fits that they give in and re add much of the grind. I think FFXI is the most forgiving learning curve of them all right now. It is so simple and easy to follow it's not even funny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ravenmore

I think FFXI is the most forgiving learning curve of them all right now. It is so simple and easy to follow it's not even funny.

---

You obviously haven't played FFXIV. :B

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

This depends on the piece of gear, look at Login Campaigns, they have supplied us with the ability to get any piece of Xar or Beau piece of gear for some time now, and continue to do so, this is what I was refering to, my new character which is account is based on literally has not stepped foot in Dynamis, completed rank 3, or even hit level 50, yet on a whim I have access to the Relic Body & Head for RDM which are by far the most important pieces of that entire set, and in reality, the only two pieces that have not been replaced for the job as of yet. THF can do the same with the TH hands and other jobs have a similar situation but I care not to look into each piece, while I admit every piece can not be obtained without Dynamis, a few can.

---

You can't count anything from login campaigns because they will not always be available. The intended method of obtainment is still by doing Dynamis. Just because SE is giving us free Apollyon and Temenos pieces doesn't mean that you should be able to upgrade your AF to +1 without completing enough missions to access Limbus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detlef

You can't count anything from login campaigns because they will not always be available. The intended method of obtainment is still by doing Dynamis. Just because SE is giving us free Apollyon and Temenos pieces doesn't mean that you should be able to upgrade your AF to +1 without completing enough missions to access Limbus.

---

I don't care about AF+1 and it was never the subject of this discution so far as I know, from the start I have only talked about RF, not AF+1, the Reforged Gear, level 109 Gear, something that has 0 relation to Limbus at all.

Quote:

---

my new character which is account is based on literally has not stepped foot in Dynamis, completed rank 3, or even hit level 50, yet on a whim I have access to the Relic Body & Head for RDM which are by far the most important pieces of that entire set, and in reality, the only two pieces that have not been replaced for the job as of yet.

---

I don't get it, what items from the login campaign allow you to get relic armor, or have anything to do with it?

Mog Kupon A-Bcd & Mog Kupon A-Xar though it seems they aren't in this one and weren't in the last one either, apologies, they were in the first 5 in a row but it seems that 6 & 7 lack them.

Reforged is tied to AF+1, because it is cheaper to upgrade AF+1 than AF to reforged. The NPCs are tied together. They're trying to give incentive to upgrading the pieces through Limbus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bungiefanNA

Reforged is tied to AF+1, because it is cheaper to upgrade AF+1 than AF to reforged. The NPCs are tied together. They're trying to give incentive to upgrading the pieces through Limbus.

---

Incentive was given, some people will choose to upgrade to +1 and go with that cheaper cost, I myself did when it was originally released, however, it should be a choice. RF is not tied to Limbus, AF+1 is, the fact people can upgrade either AF or AF+1 to RF means the requirement should be open to everyone, if you want to upgrade without having done CoP & getting to Sea you should be free to do so, you will have to use more Rem's, but thats a cost you choose to pay, besides the optional AF+1 upgrade however there are no connections between RF & Limbus, and since thats optional and you can completely avoid it by simply using normal AF gear in the transaction, it should not be a requirement.

I don't see any problem with the pre-reqs as they are. Not like the content is difficult anymore anyway.

But the fact that RF Is irrefutably tied to AF+1, whether you yourself have gotten it or not, makes sense why the NPC needs to be tied to the AF+1 npc, who doesn't give the option to +1 it until the progression. Who knows what wrenches would be thrown into the code by tying it to the AF+1 but not the NPC which gives those upgrades in the first place, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Twille

I don't see any problem with the pre-reqs as they are. Not like the content is difficult anymore anyway.

---

Part of why it makes no sense to force it, its a meaningless time sink at this point because it takes so little effort due to its level, the reason its so annoying is because the hardest and most time taking part is running around & getting CSs, oh boy, fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SilentSteel

But the fact that RF Is irrefutably tied to AF+1, whether you yourself have gotten it or not, makes sense why the NPC needs to be tied to the AF+1 npc, who doesn't give the option to +1 it until the progression.

---

No, it really doesn't since its not a requirement, there is literally no need to tie them together at all, its a choice they made, and a bad one, but I am tired of arguing the same things over and over again when no one is paying attention it seems or just doesn't care, so fk it.

I'm pretty sure, if you ask the right person, anything in this game will be called a meaningless timesink.

Why do I have to run around and collect the Home Points before I can warp to them? Meaningless timesink.
Why do I have to farm Merit Points in order to enter the Ark Angel fights? We should be able to enter whenever we want. Meaningless timesink.
Why isn't my drop 100%? Meaningless timesink.
In fact, why do I have to do the fight at all? I should just be able to get it from a NPC. Meaningless timesink.
Why do I have to walk all the way to the other side of the zone to that NPC to claim my item? It should just appear in my Delivery Box. Meaningless timesink.

You know what this game becomes if everything is handed to you? A meaningless timesink.

Asking not to have to do nearly an entire storyline in order to turn in items you already have for a piece of gear even though you have already obtained every single item for it, is akin to items being sent directly to your Dbox, well now that we have gotten the slippery slope argument out of the way, this is truly pointless.

It is entirely reasonable to have content story-locked. Lots of games do it, including FFXIV. You can't do anything in that game without progressing to a completely arbitrary point in the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Asking not to have to do nearly an entire storyline in order to turn in items you already have for a piece of gear even though you have already obtained every single item for it, is akin to items being sent directly to your Dbox, well now that we have gotten the slippery slope argument out of the way, this is truly pointless.

---

But isn't that almost exactly where the items have come from? Not your delivery box exactly but from a moogle right outside of the moghouse, and all you are required to do is log in X number of times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xantavia

But isn't that almost exactly where the items have come from? Not your delivery box exactly but from a moogle right outside of the moghouse, and all you are required to do is log in X number of times.

---

The login campaign isn't an excuse to change it. You can get +2 items for Emps. as well. It's only a means to an end in order to expedite the process of acquiring the specific items you need over the random chance of the entire bunch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xantavia

But isn't that almost exactly where the items have come from? Not your delivery box exactly but from a moogle right outside of the moghouse, and all you are required to do is log in X number of times.

---

Again I say, I do not care about +1, it is not the subject I have been arguing about in the first place nor is it connected to the RF in any way besides the connection they made via NPCs, one which did not need to be made and was their choice, and secondly, the fact you may choose to upgrade your AF to +1 before performing the upgrade to RF if you so choose.

RF, Reforged Gear, is obtainable by having the AF Piece you wish to upgrade, 1 Craft Material that varies depending on the job the gear belongs to, for instance, RDM AF requires 1 Scarlet Linen, 1 Craft Material that varies depending on the piece you wish to upgrade, for instance, Phoenix Feather for Head, and lastly, 10 Copies of Rem's Tale, the Chapter of which depends on the piece you wish to upgrade, just like the aforementioned Craft Material.

None of the AF Pieces in the entire game have any relation to Limbus in any way shape or form in order to obtain them, only in upgrading them to +1 status. The list of Craft Materials that vary from job to job are Tiger Leather, Gold Thread, Imperial Silk Cloth, Karakul Cloth, Scarlet Linen, Gold Thread, Gold Sheet, Darksteel Sheet, and Tama-Hagane, each and every single one of these 9 items can be obtained from Crafting, Chests, Coffers or Notorious Monsters. The list of Craft Materials that vary depending on the piece you wish to upgrade are Phoenix Feather, Malboro Fiber, Beetle Blood, Damascene Cloth, and Oxblood, each and every single one of these 5 items can be obtained from KSNMs, Chests in Abyssea, or Notorious Monsters of various origin. The final items needed, Rem's Tale Chapters 1 through 5, are all obtained via Burning Circle Notorious Monster battles entered using Sacred Kindred Crests.

None of these, require Limbus, Sea access, or a single bit of progress in the Chains of Promathia storyline. Please, tell me, what part of the items listed above am I incorrect about? What part of that comes from, or requires, Sea, Limbus, or any other form of Chains of Promathia progress?
ee


There are two separate NPCs for the upgrades, one for AF --> +1 and Relic --> +1, and a second for the upgrade of AF --> RF, these are two entirely different NPCs, the fact that the first of the two requires you to have Sea access before you can talk to them should not in any way affect your ability to talk to the second whatsoever, nor should it affect your ability to upgrade your AF into RF, due to the fact there are no connections to Limbus between anything this NPC asks you to obtain.

The only connection between RF and Sea or Limbus is the connection created by the fact the NPC is an associate of the original NPC, story wise, this does make sense, but it does not explain why she would be unwilling to assist in any way when we already are in possession of what she requires, but as soon as we complete a specific quest, one which does not directly involve her in any way, she all of a sudden is happy as can be to assist us.

Again I say, please, tell me how I am incorrect in anything I have said here, I would love to know exactly how it makes sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Again I say, I do not care about +1, it is not the subject I have been arguing about in the first place nor is it connected to the RF in any way besides the connection they made via NPCs, one which did not need to be made and was their choice, and secondly, the fact you may choose to upgrade your AF to +1 before performing the upgrade to RF if you so choose.

RF, Reforged Gear, is obtainable by having the AF Piece you wish to upgrade, 1 Craft Material that varies depending on the job the gear belongs to, for instance, RDM AF requires 1 Scarlet Linen, 1 Craft Material that varies depending on the piece you wish to upgrade, for instance, Phoenix Feather for Head, and lastly, 10 Copies of Rem's Tale, the Chapter of which depends on the piece you wish to upgrade, just like the aforementioned Craft Material.

None of the AF Pieces in the entire game have any relation to Limbus in any way shape or form in order to obtain them, only in upgrading them to +1 status. The list of Craft Materials that vary from job to job are Tiger Leather, Gold Thread, Imperial Silk Cloth, Karakul Cloth, Scarlet Linen, Gold Thread, Gold Sheet, Darksteel Sheet, and Tama-Hagane, each and every single one of these 9 items can be obtained from Crafting, Chests, Coffers or Notorious Monsters. The list of Craft Materials that vary depending on the piece you wish to upgrade are Phoenix Feather, Malboro Fiber, Beetle Blood, Damascene Cloth, and Oxblood, each and every single one of these 5 items can be obtained from KSNMs, Chests in Abyssea, or Notorious Monsters of various origin. The final items needed, Rem's Tale Chapters 1 through 5, are all obtained via Burning Circle Notorious Monster battles entered using Sacred Kindred Crests.

None of these, require Limbus, Sea access, or a single bit of progress in the Chains of Promathia storyline. Please, tell me, what part of the items listed above am I incorrect about? What part of that comes from, or requires, Sea, Limbus, or any other form of Chains of Promathia progress?
ee


There are two separate NPCs for the upgrades, one for AF --> +1 and Relic --> +1, and a second for the upgrade of AF --> RF, these are two entirely different NPCs, the fact that the first of the two requires you to have Sea access before you can talk to them should not in any way affect your ability to talk to the second whatsoever, nor should it affect your ability to upgrade your AF into RF, due to the fact there are no connections to Limbus between anything this NPC asks you to obtain.

The only connection between RF and Sea or Limbus is the connection created by the fact the NPC is an associate of the original NPC, story wise, this does make sense, but it does not explain why she would be unwilling to assist in any way when we already are in possession of what she requires, but as soon as we complete a specific quest, one which does not directly involve her in any way, she all of a sudden is happy as can be to assist us.

Again I say, please, tell me how I am incorrect in anything I have said here, I would love to know exactly how it makes sense.

---

Regard if you care about the AF+1 or not, it's still part of the Reforging process... By the games logic, you can't get to Temenos or Apollyon... Which also means you can't get the other crafting items: Diabolic Yarn, etc... SE made the choice to link them, much like Shami and Shemo. It don't matter how you got the other items; They're linked, plan and simple, just play through the game and get the cosmo-cleanse

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeargi

Regard if you care about the AF+1 or not, it's still part of the Reforging process... By the games logic, you can't get to Temenos or Apollyon... Which also means you can't get the other crafting items: Diabolic Yarn, etc... SE made the choice to link them, much like Shami and Shemo. It don't matter how you got the other items; They're linked, plan and simple, just play through the game and get the cosmo-cleanse

---

AF+1 is not part of the reforging process if you use normal AF...

but other people need to use AF+1 as they have upgraded it, thus why it's linked, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

AF+1 is not part of the reforging process if you use normal AF...

---

While this may be true, if you read what the NPC asks for as part of the reforging process, it is the +1 piece along with the 2 mats and the 5 rem's pages. Or you can use the nq AF gear and more rem's as an alternative. So it would appear by that dialog that SE intended for players to attempt to complete the CoP storyline. And I'm not saying this was a right or wrong decision, but it is a decision that SE made that we have to live with for now. I'm sure in some future update, if this issue gets some run, then we will see change.

Well see the reason I keep saying I don't care about +1 is because that NPC can stay how it is & I have no problems with it, if that NPC stays how it is, it has nothing to do with RF, and it would force people who want to +1 it first to do CoP, but those who want RF can pay the higher price all the same and walk away with their gear if they want. Thats what I have been trying to get at.

Yeah, that makes sense and would be nice if they had done that. We just don't know how they've tied everything together coding wise, maybe it would have been a while before they could have implemented it like that, idk.

I can see SE adding a "blackmarket" NPC to the RF some time. It will probably cost something like 100k gil + all the items to upgrade the RF to 109 or something to that note. Since it would seem SE wants people to do the content, there will be a penalty, in the form of gil, to bypass what they have intended for the players to do. And I can't say I would disagree with a decision like that. This would give the player a choice of whether to skip past the story at the cost of gil, or buckle down and push thru it. Ala airship quest or gaining access to Adoulin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Well see the reason I keep saying I don't care about +1 is because that NPC can stay how it is & I have no problems with it, if that NPC stays how it is, it has nothing to do with RF, and it would force people who want to +1 it first to do CoP, but those who want RF can pay the higher price all the same and walk away with their gear if they want. Thats what I have been trying to get at.

---

If you haven't completed the story for the game you're playing you don't deserve (ANY) rewards from it.

Like I said on page one, be thankful you aren't FORCED to obtain the +1 set before reforging at all.

Yay the op found out what was wrong. Should there have been something in the quest that said you needed sea? Sure but then this is XI not XIV where they pretty much hold your hand in every quest to the point your map is even marked. You don't need 119 af right now go get skirmish gear or other just as easy to obtain gear. Right now the only reason I see why we even have 119 af is because of the Q.Qing about geo and run base af is already up there. To me you're worse than the people in XIV who are constantly Q.Qing about not having things to do because they've rushed to the end again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

If you haven't completed the story for the game you're playing you don't deserve (ANY) rewards from it.

Like I said on page one, be thankful you aren't FORCED to obtain the +1 set before reforging at all.

---

Firstly, RF is not a reward from CoP, and as I have repeatedly said, there are no connections between CoP & RF except for the ability to upgrade from +1 to RF if you choose, but its an optional path, which you can avoid by simply upgrading your regular AF, so in that respect its not a reward from a story which you have not completed.

Secondly, I really don't care about your opinion much anymore Karah, you make such poor arguments for everything, like this one, being thankful they didn't do something even worse does not make what they did better, thats one of the weakest arguments anyone can ever use, almost as bad as the slippery slope 'why not just send it to your delivery box' argument people use. The problem with arguments like that is anything can be made to look good, like 'be thankful the repop on ToAU kings isn't 3 months' or 'be thankful Empyreans do not require 15000 plates rather than 1500' just because it could be worse doesn't mean that what we have is good nor that we should just accept it for what it is and never complain. Yes, we did not have to upgrade to +1, yay, but in all honesty I'll say if we did, at very least this requirement of Sea access would make more sense, instead, it makes no sense, and is seemingly a pointless restriction placed with no real need.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lithera

Right now the only reason I see why we even have 119 af is because of the Q.Qing about geo and run base af is already up there.

---

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I believe since before the release of RUN & GEO AF they had stated they had intentions to implement upgraded versions of previous AF gear, which would mean it was not due to our complaints, it was planned from the start.

People complained because they found it stupid, and many still do, that the two newest jobs get no AF at 40/52~60 when every other job does, and rather, SE simply implemented them at a high level to begin with, making it less enjoyable for people to level. In all honesty, since that time, I have changed my stance on it from it being a good idea, to a bad idea, because now anyone doing those quests can hardly get help since the method is so vastly different than that of the RF for any other job that they have no relation, and are mostly unable to be soloed. Either way, that is another topic all together.

Completing the story is the whole reason to play the game, there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about making it a requirement.

Your other points are just arbitrarily pointless. 1500 plates, is already excessive, TOAU kings repops ARE excessive etc.

Having something done you should've done LONG AGO, is reasonable beyond explanation just at face value, it needs no argument.

Even if you started TODAY you could finish COP in (2?) days. ((Because of the arbitrary day change requirements.))

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

Completing the story is the whole reason to play the game, there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about making it a requirement.

Having something done you should've done LONG AGO, is reasonable beyond explanation just at face value, it needs no argument.

Even if you started TODAY you could finish COP in (2?) days. ((Because of the arbitrary day change requirements.))

---

Should have done long ago had you been playing for a long period of time, from what I understand the OP is a new player, I myself made a new character and have already experienced this story 2 times previously. In either of these two instances you can not or should not expect a person to have done this expansion already, and doing it seems a needless pain. It seems very annoying that you must go out of your way to do story missions alone for a few days worth of time simply to get armor you already had the items for in the first place, from the viewpoint of a new player, I can not see people wanting to be forced into doing it, if anything, people likely want to take their time with it and enjoy the experience rather than rush through it so they can get what they wanted in the first place, and as someone making a new character who has done it before, I get no benefit out of doing it again, its just an annoyance.

Quote:

---

You're other points are just arbitrarily pointless. 1500 plates, is already excessive, TOAU kings repops ARE excessive etc.

---

1500 plates is an excessive amount, ToAU repops are insane, and that proves my point, just saying that something could suck worse, does not mean it doesn't already suck. All you're doing here is proving exactly the point I was attempting to get across but it seems to have went over your head.

Argument: 1500 Plates is ludicrous.
Reply: Be thankful its not 15000 Plates.
Logically its a failed argument, 1500 Plates is ludicrous, simply stating that 15000 would be worse does not make 1500 any better.

Argument: ToAU kings can take weeks to pop and some even claim it's taken them more than a month, this needs to be changed!
Reply: Be thankful they aren't 3 month repop timers.
Logically its a failed argument, weeks or a month is ludicrous, simply stating that 3 months would be worse does not make this issue any better.

Argument: I should not need to have Sea access to turn in my upgrade items for my RF when I already have everything needed and none of it involves CoP.
Reply: Be thankful they didn't force you to have the +1 first.
Logically its a failed argument, needing to have Sea access for something that does not relate to Sea directly makes no sense, the fact they did not make it require +1 to upgrade them in the first place does not make the original problem any better, it just means they didn't do something even worse that they could have.

Do you now understand the argument I was making and how you seem to have missed it?

Nope, your arguments fail.

Plates; 1500 excessive, 15000 excessive, hell 150 is excessive. No reason it shouldn't be 100 except that people "need" things to sell. 50 > 75 > 100 ((logic)) 50 > 75 > 1500 (((retarded)))

Kings repop should be 20 minutes. No reason it isn't other than arbitrary HNM rules.

Didn't complete the story?; You don't get jackshit; totally reasonable. Nothing arbitrary about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

Nope, your arguments fail.

---

I think its more that we simply have differing opinions on what qualifies on excessive, for instance...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

Didn't complete the story?; You don't get jackshit; totally reasonable. Nothing arbitrary about it.

---

I believe it is excessive to require a storyline be nearly completed when it holds no relevance in relation to the armor of which you wish to obtain.

I know this will probably anger a few people, but here's what it really comes down to...

If you lack Raja's Ring your opinion really doesn't matter. (ESPECIALLY if you picked sattva or tamas!! lawl)

I know it's not as awesome as it used to be, but I'm saying it anyway.

By that logic, if you're worried about not being able to complete reforging because of sea access, then you lack Raja's and therefore are irrelevant.

There's no arguing your way out of it, there's no opposing views, it just is.

There is no excuse at all for not having CoP (and RotZ and WotG ASA/AMK/ACP etcetcetcetc) completed. period. ((unless you're just plain lazy, and therefor doubly irrelevant))

http://i44.tinypic.com/2qbi13t.gif

#throwback 90s style

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

If you lack Raja's Ring your opinion really doesn't matter.

---

Well lets just get the fact I have Rajas out of the way, I am Demonjustin, this account uses a different character, and thus, I do have it even if it does not show it on this specific character, there for it would seem my opinion should seem to matter, so, moving on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

By that logic, if you're worried about not being able to complete reforging because of sea access, then you lack Raja's and therefore are irrelevant.

There is no excuse at all for not having CoP (and RotZ and WotG ASA/AMK/ACP etcetcetcetc) completed. period.

---

So new players should have all expansions completed within the first month of their time on the game, because seriously, that's the amount of time it would take for a character to get to 99 with RoE & Trust but no leaching in Abyssea, and by the time they hit 99, they would be capable of getting their AF, as well as affording all of the required items between RoE & the AH.

This is why I simply don't care about your opinion anymore, because you don't have a bit of empathy for other people here, its just you, you matter, this doesn't have any ability to affect you even, positive or negative, yet, here you are, complaining against changing it.



I have explained over and over why this change should be done, and why the requirement makes no sense, no one has been able to give a real reason as to why, only scapegoat reasons, other games do it, AF+1 involves it so somehow that means that using AF itself should be restricted too, it could be worse, you're just lazy if you don't do the content anyways, or the good ol why not just deliver the item straight to your room!? All just a bunch of things distracting from the fact there is no reason not to change it, and there is no reason for the restriction to be there in the first place that we know of outside of the fact that SE arbitrarily chose to put it there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

So new players should have all expansions completed within the first month of their time on the game.

---

Damn straight. Considering having the reward for clearing CoP (Raja's) is a seriously worthwhile piece of gear. STILL generally the best possible ring in most if not all situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

SE arbitrarily chose to put it there.

---

Like I said, this is the ONE time they didn't make an arbitrary roadblock. You should look up what arbitrary means. because (granted se doesn't use logic very often) LOGICALLY they want you to follow all the steps. Obtain AF, Plus one it, Reforge it.

They make mention many times over of the gear ladder (now with ilevel) so, for the last time, be thankful (seriously, quit crying about it) that you can skip the limbus stage at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

You should look up what arbitrary means.

---

Arbitrary, based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. I try not to use words I don't know, I said what I meant and meant what I said.

Quote:

---

LOGICALLY they want you to follow all the steps. Obtain AF, Plus one it, Reforge it.

---

They want you to, but do not force you to, the fact they do not force you to do the AF+1 upgrade is why it is so nonsensical that they would however still force you to have progress up to the point where you can obtain the AF+1 upgrade. To me, they went with a middle ground in a very stupid way, either they could force you to have the AF+1 before you could upgrade, which is what you are saying, or, they could have made it so that you needed no CoP progression in order to perform the upgrade, but the AF+1 upgrade would have been cheaper as it is. Either of these two ways would have honestly made sense. The middle ground is to make it so you still need progress enough to do Sea/Limbus and thus, upgrade to AF+1, but then at the same time not make it a requirement to get AF+1 before you can upgrade. That to me, makes no sense, and seems very stupid.

Quote:

---

They make mention many times over of the gear ladder (now with ilevel) so, for the last time, be thankful (seriously, quit crying about it) that you can skip the limbus stage at all.

---

Be thankful it doesn't suck more, got ya, thank you for repeating the same poor argument again.

It makes perfect sense if you use some actual thought, instead of just blindly whining.

While you can skip the step of +1 the original gear, you must be CAPABLE of +1ing it, to be able to skip it, it's really not a hard concept to grasp.

If you are unable to +1 the original set, then logic would dictate that you cannot +2 and +3 it (as RF would be counted as af1+2 and af1+3 just renamed RF and RF+1 ((((arbitrarily)))) it could've just as easily been designated as AF1+2 and blue bordered, making ALL ARGUMENTS NULL AND VOID.

Simply because they choose to name it reforge instead of +2, you think you have ground to stand on and place a valid argument, this is inaccurate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

Simply because they choose to name it reforge instead of +2, you think you have ground to stand on and place a valid argument, this is inaccurate.

---

The reason I believe I have valid ground to stand on in my argument is due to the fact that it allows you to skip the +1 stage entirely, no matter if it were named +2 or not that would make no difference in my argument because simply looking at Relic renders that entire line of thought irrelevant. Relic was +1'd through the same exact NPC AF is +1'd and required access to Sea/Limbus all the same, but the +2, which did not require the +1 in the same way this does not, had no such restriction, and in the same way as this, it was done through a different NPC, with different items, none of which had anything exclusive to a zone requiring an ounce of CoP progress.

My argument and the ground on which I stand have nothing to do with names, borders, or the fact it is not named +2, my argument has to do with patterns shown by gear that had a fairly similar progression structure and the fact that the items required have no connection at all to Sea or Limbus.

Even for new people CoP is not a problem with Wiki telling them exactly what to do and at 99 with reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easy to get Ilevel gear they can curb stomp their way right to Reforge all the while racking up more sparks for more seals. Really dude that started the thread was almost 99 when he wrote the first post after only 10 days so it's not like he wasted a whole bunch of time and could still do the content that the seals came from while doing all the other relevant endgame content. But hey what can SE do really, if the made it were you didn't have to do anything but collect the seals and trade them in people would be crying that it was giving things away to easy and new players don't know how to play so on and so on.

Now I could use the same BS argument that others throw around when REMs where under fire that the grind, low drop rates and the extremely slow progression was the niche FFXI has but we all know it was bs and the real niche was it being a Final fantasy title. When people think of Final fantasy, story is the main point and why you deal with the grind that comes from a JRPG. Like I said before story is the one thing in the whole game that won't be outdated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I believe since before the release of RUN & GEO AF they had stated they had intentions to implement upgraded versions of previous AF gear, which would mean it was not due to our complaints, it was planned from the start.

People complained because they found it stupid, and many still do, that the two newest jobs get no AF at 40/52~60 when every other job does, and rather, SE simply implemented them at a high level to begin with, making it less enjoyable for people to level. In all honesty, since that time, I have changed my stance on it from it being a good idea, to a bad idea, because now anyone doing those quests can hardly get help since the method is so vastly different than that of the RF for any other job that they have no relation, and are mostly unable to be soloed. Either way, that is another topic all together.

---

I don't think they did though until people complained that it was unfair that geo and run were getting their af that was an ilv equal to other things from SoA. I know they said we would be getting more armour just not AF until after. It has been a long time for me since I read those threads so I still could be wrong. People's main complaints wasn't really that it was stupid but more that SE's reasoning for when they got their AF didn't go with the previous 20 other jobs and the level people were allowed to get them along with the huge lack of gear lower than 75 to use if one didn't go and burn those jobs to 99.

Back to the main complaint in the thread and about having to do old content just so you can obtain said new gear. It's CoP which like many have said is easily done solo for the most part and is not JP midnight heavy as say ToA where there are literally JP midnight stops after viewing just a CS. Or at least there used to be can't remember if they took those out or not.
Also it wouldn't be XI if the game suddenly started to actually be usefull when accepting a quest from an npc. Now if there was no oh btw you need to have gotten to sea on the wikis for this quest then yeah bad form. SE has always wanted people to go do old content they just have had a bad time coming up with usefull reasons why. It's funny that when they come up with an idea that is useful in end game people still cry.