Realistic Job adjustments wants!

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Originally Posted by Alderin

NIN got the long straw regarding the later updates in my opinion, so I would just replace a few of the most recent terrible traits that we got from 75-90 with these.

1. Instead of Magic Burst Bonus - change it to Magic Attack Bonus. (For Ninjitsu spells obviously). Because let's face it, that is a terrible job trait as is.

2. Instead of Skillchain Bonus - once again a terrible job trait. Change it to what has already been mentioned - Crit hit rate or crit hit dmg.

3. Tactical Parry?? Seriously guys.. wtf? Perhaps instead of that, simply a Parry Bonus (similar to evasion bonus etc for DNC). I would much prefer to parry more often, rather then get TP if I parry. Unless you are going to throw us like 100% TP every time we parry or something crazy - this trait is useless and if anything should be a lvl 10 job trait.

However I don't believe nin needs fixing. Beef up PLD instead.

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Dude, SC bonus and MB bonus rock.... this being said why can't we have SCB, MBB, MAB, AND Crit Damage bonus? prz? perty prz?

Tactical Evade. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

How ridiculously tasty would that be.

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Originally Posted by Faule

Tactical Evade. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

How ridiculously tasty would that be.

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lol dude I was joking about that with my friends... this being said, even if it was a nerf TP like 0.1 TP per evade I'd still jizz in my pants over it. I'm not gunna complain about free TP @.@

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Originally Posted by Orenwald

Dude, SC bonus and MB bonus rock.... this being said why can't we have SCB, MBB, MAB, AND Crit Damage bonus? prz? perty prz?

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Depends how much party stuff you do. In my circumstance they are terrible traits as most of the stuff I use nin for is low-manned, and not something I am spamming skillchains and bursts off with. But hey thats a matter of opinion and circumstance.

But yeah Crit DMG would pwn.

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1. By level 99 give us Auto-Sneak. I'm a Ninja goddammit. I don't make noise when I walk places. This would get rid of the people shouting for Monomi Ni. (even though that spell should exist). ~Faule

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I've thought about this myself, even at 90 why isn't stealth proc'ing more? With that said, I'd like to see "Stealth II". . . BUT. . . (as we know SE in the past) it would most likely occur during night time (if we're REAL lucky, during dark weather too, WOOT!)

As a rumor I've been told there is another merit group coming at lv99 (okay, I'm sure most of us already know it is in fact inevitable). I see the merit groups for Ninja being Ni AND San spells. It makes sense due to the nature that we're exposed to a wide range of spells now (1 or 2 more please. ie ~ a dark spell for debuffing) for personal play styles via merits.

Additionally, I don't ever see something like 'smoke bomb' coming out because we already have a blind 2 spell (San perhaps), unless we're talking -ga spells. Don't take that the wrong way, in fact, I wish they would give something in the form of -ga. I think we're overdue. Movies, books and common stereotypes, (ie: Shinobi or American Ninja<3, even TMNT) if the ninja isn't fighting another elite ninja, she/he's fighting multiple opponents. Thus, give me a -ga spell. To kind of put that into perspective or solidify my point of view: blm, sleepga. whm and rdm, diaga and blu well, too many to name. But if WHM has a -ga, then give me a -ga. Give me blindga (smoke bomb-ga) to pull with or crowd control. Nice alternative to assist mages when sleepga wears off. :cool:

Tactical Evasion = Sexy

P.S. ~ I don't care to hear people complain/b'sh about too many nin's or making nin too powerful INSIDE abyssea. Because I've been Ninthra'ing it since the job came out and SOOOO many flipping haters out there would not let most of us play because it was in fact, unorthodox and didn't fit the 'stereotype' of jobs. My response to the haters: FU~! And to the conformers: I'm glad we're on the rise and I'm proud to see more people taking ninja in. Or maybe all this time there have been closet Ninja's finally coming out.

P.S. II ~ Gakaroth is a conformer :D

The Smoke Bomb (スモークボム, Sumōku Bomu) is a recurring, single-use item in the Final Fantasy (6,7) series usually used to escape from battles. Its what I meant on the first page not as blind tool like in Final Fantasy X... and so on -.-..

I think there actually have been upgrades to the Stealth ability, although I can't be 100% certain. I find it difficult to sound aggro some mobs sometimes on ninja, have to get very close.

It's been said a hundred times so far, but I'll say it again: NIN doesn't need A+ skills, throwing WS or certain :Ni or :San-level ninjutsu. Stop asking for it. Going on 9 pages of this crap. Tactical Evade or whatever will also never happen. Keep dreaming.

Yes, NIN doesn't need any of that junk... but throwing WS's would be fun, and not really game-breaky at all :D

Apparently someone forgot the name of this...
Thread: Realistic Job adjustments wants!

"wants".

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Originally Posted by Mizzou

Apparently someone forgot the name of this...
Thread: Realistic Job adjustments wants!

"wants".

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Apparently some people forgot the modifying word [SIZE="7"]realistic[/SIZE].

I thought about stating that, but then I realized, let him do it for me. Thank you, there are many realistic 'wants'. Look at previous FF games and compare to what people are saying. And in case you forgot, SE only knows what's going to happen in the future. So to say that none of these are going to be in it? Leave. The only comment that resonates unrealistic is yours. I do understand your optimism and enthusiasm is handicapped by negativity. Perhaps because these are not your wants and you prefer something else or nothing at all. This is not the thread for you. However, this is a thread for people say how they would like to see the job evolved even more. Why is that so hard to comprehend? (that was rhetorical) Have fun with it or leave. Don't be the buzz kill.

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Originally Posted by Mizzou

I thought about stating that, but then I realized, let him do it for me. Thank you, there are many realistic 'wants'. Look at previous FF games and compare to what people are saying. And in case you forgot, SE only knows what's going to happen in the future. So to say that none of these are going to be in it? Leave. The only comment that resonates unrealistic is yours. I do understand your optimism and enthusiasm is handicapped by negativity. Perhaps because these are not your wants and you prefer something else or nothing at all. This is not the thread for you. However, this is a thread for people say how they would like to see the job evolved even more. Why is that so hard to comprehend? (that was rhetorical) Have fun with it or leave. Don't be the buzz kill.

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The crap you guys are asking for won't happen. Hate to be a Debbie Downer. Most of it is beyond ridiculous. Come back down to Earth.

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Originally Posted by Fetus

The crap you guys are asking for won't happen. Hate to be a Debbie Downer. Most of it is beyond ridiculous. Come back down to Earth.

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This is the internets, we don't have to be on Earth. We can live in space if we want to, don't be hatin'

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Originally Posted by Fetus

Hate to be a Debbie Downer.

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Then don't be?

Just because you do not agree with someone else's "realistic job wants" does not mean you have to actively belittle the idea.

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Tactical Evade or whatever will also never happen. Keep dreaming.

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/That was the joooke.

But I'm completely serious about the Auto-Sneak.

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Originally Posted by Faule

/That was the joooke.

But I'm completely serious about the Auto-Sneak.

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I'd jump on that bandwagon. One less tool I'd have to buy xD

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Originally Posted by Fetus

It's been said a hundred times so far, but I'll say it again: NIN doesn't need A+ skills, throwing WS or certain :Ni or :San-level ninjutsu. Stop asking for it. Going on 9 pages of this crap. Tactical Evade or whatever will also never happen. Keep dreaming.

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Actually it's more feasible than you think to add Ni and San levels of enfeebling ninjutsu. The argument would have been invalid if this was 2004 before merit additions, but now RDM (for example) have T2 Slow and Para, and Sabo JA and tons of Magic Acc and MND/INT potency gear.

I agree that the other stuff is more over the top however. Either way, I'ma post a new topic soon on relative and simple fixes to NIN that might make it a better job overall.

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Originally Posted by Mizzou

P.S. II ~ Gakaroth is a conformer :D

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A conformer...

No, I'm just comfortable playing the job as it is at the moment, and if you ask any, ANY, of my friends, they'll tell you that every update we've got a new spell I've been pissed off it hasn't been the one spell we've lacked since lv45~ Jubaku: Ni.

Just because I haven't posted any origional ideas does not make me a conformist, infact, the only thing I've pointed out in this forum is that AF3+2 shoes give a 5th shaddow from Utsu: ni (I realise I miss-read what the user posted, but I'm dyslexic so sue me... and the icon shows '4+' on it at the moment, for those who weren't ninja before yonin/innin and shaddow count was added to the icons)

I've been sitting back and reading the suggestions slowly contemplating how they would be implimented in the game, and debating improvments and the likes, and also been trying to think of my own. I've been NIN for 3 years now, spent 6 months after level sync came out getting it from 50-75 before taking a break from XI for the birth of my son for 6 months.

I've still to come up with any concepts but am enjoying reading the forum, and fail to see why I was singled out and picked on here. Can you please explain this?

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Originally Posted by Shoko

Actually it's more feasible than you think to add Ni and San levels of enfeebling ninjutsu. The argument would have been invalid if this was 2004 before merit additions, but now RDM (for example) have T2 Slow and Para, and Sabo JA and tons of Magic Acc and MND/INT potency gear.

I agree that the other stuff is more over the top however. Either way, I'ma post a new topic soon on relative and simple fixes to NIN that might make it a better job overall.

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Maybe I should clarify:

I'm saying that :San level enfeebling ninjutsu is highly unlikely considering that NIN lacks a complete line of even :Ni level ninjutsu. The extremely popular consensus has been that players would like to have Jubaku: Ni and Dokumori: Ni. If anyone wanted proof, just read any FFXI ninja-related forum on the internet. The comment was more directed to the unlikelihood of accessing Tier 4 elemental ninjutsu. Unless they were level 99 merits. Even then, no fking thanks. Give us some good merits for once, instead, please. Also, I think you meant valid.

@Bulrogg - Explain to me how A+ skills, :Ni and :San everything, sooper dooper Throwing WS and whatever other outlandish stuff you can unfortunately find in this thread are needed or necessary. Then I'll stop "belittling".

We do not know what SE has planned for the future, at 99, inside or outside of Abyssea. So while a lot of stuff that is uber duper is not needed then or now, it shouldn't stop us from discussing things that could potentially be a great addition or adjustment.

I guess some people feel the need to shoot down any idea that will change the game/job from the way they think it should be.

Because so much of this garbage is a "great addition or adjustment".

And yes, I will continue to shoot down ideas that are terrible.

I said that could be...
But first it would have to not get shot down by people that don't like the idea and think there is no room for improvement except in the areas they agree with.

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Originally Posted by Fetus

And I'm really, really tired of pessimist like you complaining about everything that people on these forums are suggesting. The forums were designed precisely for this purpose.

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I won't try reason with you as why not to be a downer, it seems your mind is set.

I want to see a complete line of :Ni spells... As others have mentioned the idea of AoE spells also seems cool to me. I could see the :San levels of our spells maybe taking such an idea on. Also, I'm on the Utsu: San bandwagon as well but I feel it should function as a defense against AoE's. I see it as possibly still allowing the damage to hit us but as long as Utsu: San is up no other shadows would be erased. This would solve the pesky problem we occasionaly run into of getting dropped in 1 or 2 hits after an AoE is cast. I'd like to see these spells be questable if they arent added to merits.

I also love the idea of shurikens (or throwing WS's, I don't really care) making up for the enfeeb's we dont have. Throwing things that add silence, bind, magic def. down etc. I think would really add a new aspect to nin game play.

As far as JA's go I would love to see Innin and Yonin on seperate timers, however, I don't see this as being extremely crucial. Really JA and Job Trait wise I feel Nin is pretty solid.

I hate this thread so much, 99% of these ideas fail.
The only good idea, is the people who want jubaku ni.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

I hate this thread so much, 99% of these ideas fail.
The only good idea, is the people who want jubaku ni.

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What a square. ;)

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Originally Posted by Addy

I want to see a complete line of :Ni spells... As others have mentioned the idea of AoE spells also seems cool to me. I could see the :San levels of our spells maybe taking such an idea on. Also, I'm on the Utsu: San bandwagon as well but I feel it should function as a defense against AoE's. I see it as possibly still allowing the damage to hit us but as long as Utsu: San is up no other shadows would be erased. This would solve the pesky problem we occasionaly run into of getting dropped in 1 or 2 hits after an AoE is cast. I'd like to see these spells be questable if they arent added to merits.

I also love the idea of shurikens (or throwing WS's, I don't really care) making up for the enfeeb's we dont have. Throwing things that add silence, bind, magic def. down etc. I think would really add a new aspect to nin game play.

As far as JA's go I would love to see Innin and Yonin on seperate timers, however, I don't see this as being extremely crucial. Really JA and Job Trait wise I feel Nin is pretty solid.

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I'm totally with you on the Innin/Yonin timers!

I do think we should get at least an :Ichi tier sleep spell. Ninjas mythically have sleeping powder/gas! Let us use it! ;_;

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Originally Posted by Faule

What a square. ;)

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Being a square is better then being a fool who thinks ninja needs anything other then a slight boost to melee damage.

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Being a square is better then being a fool who thinks ninja needs anything other then a slight boost to melee damage.

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Because none of the other jobs are getting anything more than a slight boost to anything in the next 9 levels? At this point in time it may be true that Ninja doesn't "need" anything major. This will not always be the case.

All jobs will be getting new things. It's not a question of "needing" anything, it's a matter of possible areas of growth for the jobs. Depending on how long the game continues, all the jobs will continue to be given new things to play with, even after we hit the level 99 cap, just like how jobs kept getting things while we were at the level 75 cap.

Also, some ideas (like mine) were born directly from SE's comments at past Fanfests about the direction they wanted to take certain jobs. (for example, for Ninja, they said they were considering a job ability that would drop a Ninja's enmity temporarily and then restore that enmity plus more, to make dual tanking easier) and the other two were logical extensions of the job's historical FF abilities and current in-game player-created usage of the job.

Many of the ideas in this thread "fit" the ninja job in concept, but may need to be changed or balanced before implementation. It's not really the job of people with the ideas to do all that (even if they did, there are factors that only the Dev team are aware of that would render all that work pointless.)

It doesn't hurt to point out that you personally wouldn't like certain things, but some people's only reasoning is that we don't "need" anything more, and that's just wrong.


On a more general note:

These boards allow players to communicate to the Dev team what direction we would like to see the game take. I wouldn't say that all the ideas I've seen on all the job sections are all good, however, it does give insight into the way players perceive the jobs (however misguided some may be.) This feedback also allows the dev team to discuss how to change player perceptions and make better use of what we already have if additions are not made to existing systems that are deemed sufficient as is.

I encourage everyone who "wants" something for the game to speak up about it, whether "needed" or not. (I understand some annoyance people have when "silly" ideas are put forth, since they have a chance of being taken seriously, but I'd like to think that the people who are reading these boards and collecting the ideas to be presented to the Dev team are able to discern most of those for what they are.)

I would also add that it is not up to players to say whether something is "too hard" to implement, or any other such "final decisions" that are clearly up to SE to make. I've seen way too many threads on these boards where players try to speak up on behalf of SE to give their answers (usually "no", too hard, PS2 limitations, blahblah), rather than seeing what the Dev team has to say. No, we don't know how they'd respond, even if they've responded in a certain way in the past. They've clearly shown that they're open to changing the direction of the game in recent years.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Being a square is better then being a fool who thinks ninja needs anything other then a slight boost to melee damage.

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I'll keep my mind open.

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Originally Posted by AyinDygra

stuff

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Cool story Bro.

Some people just don't want to see [INSERT JOB HERE] changed in any way and want to stay in Abyssea forever.

We shouldn't forget there are nine more levels of wonderment. I enjoy reading the suggestions and wonder what if any the Devs might pick to improve upon.

I liked the mention in the throwing thread about ammunition (or more specifically, shuriken) to be thrown during melee attacks.

New Job Ability:
Hogeki (hōgeki, 砲撃) English: "bombardment"
Occasionally adds a ranged attack while engaged in combat.

*Duration: 1 minute, Recast: 3/5 minutes.
*Does not interfere with melee attack speed (instant attack animation--it's automatic).
*Damage affected by Throwing Skill level. (give a little something to those of us with really high skill levels and incentive to others to skill it up)

The extra damage would be nice! Would make having a gun, bow, throwing, or shuriken/ammo equipped more worthwhile. I'm thinking specifially throwing/ammo though.

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Originally Posted by JiltedValkyrie

I liked the mention in the throwing thread about ammunition (or more specifically, shuriken) to be thrown during melee attacks.

New Job Ability:
Hogeki (hōgeki, 砲撃) english: "bombardment"
Occasionally adds a ranged attack while engaged in combat.

The extra damage would be nice! Would make having a gun, bow, throwing, or shuriken/ammo equipped more worthwhile. I'm thinking specifially throwing/ammo though.

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I like this idea, maybe make it one of those 3min duration 5min recast JAs so it's not so like... broken~y

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Originally Posted by JiltedValkyrie

I liked the mention in the throwing thread about ammunition (or more specifically, shuriken) to be thrown during melee attacks.

New Job Ability:
Hogeki (hōgeki, 砲撃) english: "bombardment"
Occasionally adds a ranged attack while engaged in combat.

*Duration: 1 minute, Recast: 3/5 minutes.
*Does not interfere with melee attack speed (instant attack animation--it's automatic).
*Damage affected by Throwing Skill level. (give a little something to those of us with really high skill levels and incentive to others to skill it up)

The extra damage would be nice! Would make having a gun, bow, throwing, or shuriken/ammo equipped more worthwhile. I'm thinking specifially throwing/ammo though.

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Your idea involves losing qirmiz tathlum, and carrying stacks of shurikens, which will reduce available inventory even more. Us notgimpninjas currently carry 75+ items with us we require to effectively do our jobs, last thing we need is more crap to carry and waste gil on. This is a terrible idea.

Not to mention the fact that theres no good throwing weapons available.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Your idea involves losing qirmiz tathlum, and carrying stacks of shurikens, which will reduce available inventory even more. Us notgimpninjas currently carry 75+ items with us we require to effectively do our jobs, last thing we need is more crap to carry and waste gil on. This is a terrible idea.

Not to mention the fact that theres no good throwing weapons available.

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Not to mention Square Enix can make new shuriken. Think ahead. Extra attacks would easily be better than a Qirmiz. Your Hogeki timer down? Put the Qirmiz back. Easy. Shuriken stack to 99 already. There are many play styles for every job.

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Originally Posted by JiltedValkyrie

There are many play styles for every job.

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There is many play styles, but only 1 is the most effective and useful.
SE's track history shows they're bad at adding shurikens anyway if you bothered to look, theyre way to expensive to make or come 1 at a time as a drop from battlefield NM stuff no one does. More of this is not what ninja needs.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

There is many play styles, but only 1 is the most effective and useful.

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Maybe for the present time but you're not thinking ahead from here to 99. Stop trolling about the past where they failed and look for what is coming. I have a feeling we all will be adjusting play styles between future version update and 99.

I want my Billy-goats, Billy-goats, Billy-goats...

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Your idea involves losing qirmiz tathlum, and carrying stacks of shurikens, which will reduce available inventory even more. Us notgimpninjas currently carry 75+ items with us we require to effectively do our jobs, last thing we need is more crap to carry and waste gil on. This is a terrible idea.

Not to mention the fact that theres no good throwing weapons available.

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I second the idea that there are no good throwing weapons, but the rest...

Where are you getting 75+ for us "good" ninja? O_o With sets for evasion, TPing, ninjutsu, shadow recasts, and WS, as well as my tools (Shadows, Blind/Para/Slow, Myoshu, Migawari, Yurin, Sneak/Invis) I hit roughly about 55-60 inventory at best. When I get Blade: Hi finally I'll be converting my WS set but that won't even change my final inventory amount much. Toss in Echo drops and food, keep extra weapons for proc in mog sack 'til I need them out... really there shouldn't be too much issue carrying a stack or two of shuriken (Or even "holsters" of them if they decide to implement this and make them baggable), provided said weapons were worth the time and effort to get them.

Of course, I emphasize that they make them actually useful and reasonably obtainable/useful. >.> Nokizaru/Koga Shuriken, I'm looking at you...

Precisely. If new shuriken are unobtainable reasonably, then a JA like hogeki would be too lucrative in aspect to its cost, or they'd have to revamp old shuriken stats and/or recipes.