Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons

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Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).

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So will you, in the future, add a way in the game to differentiate between lv.99 equipment which are of different content levels, such as a visual cue like the borders for HQ items or even display the content level in the description?

empyreans are the weakest R/E/M ?

come on, relics only have one trial that is 75+ content, the rest can be soloed in a few months.
mythics are still hard due to mass <insert event> points needed and 3/6 ppl requierement for theses. but all in all, this is only lv.75 content to lv.99 weapon.
for empyreans, beside the first annoying abyssea trials that are already 75+(sure in abyssea, but you can't solo most of theses unlike relics), the 1500 HMP are impossible to get yourself, even more now that theses new adoulin weapons/armors defeated every VW content. then there are the 60 riftcinder/dross that met the same fate.
heck, if you want to be efficient to make an empyrean, you go farm in dynamis and sell the coins to buy hmp/rift.

with some of theses empyreans already lacking (yes i made a rhongomiant, probably one of the most annoying trial path with the one of the worst result), having a subpar weapon to someone who just droped on a delve boss kinda frustrate me.

I've got my source of income back! Huzzah!

I'm okay with this. Its making it to where RME are useable, and the other weapons still have stronger features. Its a nice middle ground. I can use mercy without it being attached to a weapon thats essentially a fun toy... I mean, I've lightened up to RME being dead and i retired my THF, with this news, I might be able to play the job again.

Just thanks SE, I understand you want to kill off/phase out RME so they're not "End all be all", But I'm happy you realized you'd be murdering 2 major sources of income for players (Currency/Alex), and also alienating a lot of 5-11 year old players who did not warm up to the idea as well as you might have hoped.

All in all, this is a positive for me, and to be able to unlock Emp WS with the 99 version just opened up the Coin/etc market a bit too, cause I know i'd make a Dagger, Staff, and so forth without fail.

Please allow 99 Empy's to unlock weapon skills like "coin" weapons.

this is a good idea but pls pls pls don't just make it 99 only my armagedon 90 took allot of work too

What about the other Magian trial weapons? Just toss them? I don't want to remake these again if it will even be possible everytime there is an update. Bst -pdt axes, OAT weapons, evasion daggers and katanas, STR, DEX, weapons, tp bonus G katanas, are just a few. These are special purpose weapons. With R/M/E boost update, why not boost these also?

I'm thinking that whatever percentage boost you give R/M/E weapons, give Magian weapons a boost to put them in the same standing with R/M/Es as they are now. My thoughts to upgrade them would be a simple quest, but something different than we have been doing with them, I'm tired of only weather mobs, 500 mobs, pet killing blow, etc... Why not for every weapon you wish to upgrade do something like a Maat fight, Maat or new npc has same job and matching weapon, just trade x amount of Bayld or trade some item to npc and fight to have weapon upgraded? My thoughts on it anyway, I think it would be fun and challenging. Please upgrade these also!

I think I understand now why they're hesitant to give us 5 Merit WS instead of 3... They give us an inch and people ask for a mile.

if only 99 empy weps getting a boost they may aswell erase abyssea cos it will kill it. why not give all stages of r/e/m weps a boost, I mean why make such a big part of the game pointless

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.


In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.

I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.

My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.

I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.

Thank you all very much.
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If you going to let the emp weapon skill be used by other weapons then i think its only fair that you add ws dmg to it when you do it with the emp weapon

Tachi: Katian

When you have a 99 you get 40% dmg you can do it with 90 anamo the dyna ver. and the GK that drops off the worm in abyssea after 13 ws, but the 99 anamo has the stronger version

Tachi: Rana

Can be done with any weapon but when you have the Koga 99 it does 30% more ws dmg so its stronger with that weapon

Tachi: fudo

It can only be done with masa and coin weapon right now

Only thing thats right now is if you do it with the coin weapon you dont get aftermath and you dont have 20 of the mod for it.

But if you unlock it for all weapons if it was used with a much higher dmg base weapon like the delve weapon if you guys are planning to keep masa lower like in your sword example with alamace and all you need is a coin weapon to unlock it, i think its not fair to the 99 masa so please take this in to consideration.

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Originally Posted by Camate/Matsui

[Camate] Matsui here...

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It's nice to hear a relatively quick update on this previously discouraging matter, thank you. I think I'll feel more comfortable visiting Vana'diel now. I hope you haven’t had any ulcers!

Some strong recommendations for you and your team summarized from the community. Please find this with good intentions:

Make sure R/M/E stay on top of all other weapons (and to be specific I mean base damage foremost). This is priority one. These items are a key legacy and the champions of FFXI, and should be until Vana'diel dies. This has been justified throughout the related R/M/E threads (and not just on this forum either). To sum a few popular rationales: most importantly they require the longest amount of time by far among any reward (cost). They also were always indicated to the players (by the FFXI team) be top tier, even after the game passed 75. Some players like the cool weapon model/art or the lore; others are after the unique effects these weapons offer. Many players posted ‘FFXI is not (insert other MMO title here)’, and that’s a good thing. There are too many reasons to list, but most R/M/E holders agree the first is I mentioned is enough alone.

Keep plans in place for future expansions to make priority one, stay priority one.

Make sure Empyrean, Coin [WoE], and Relic all gain the weapon skill unlock (in other words, not just the coin weapons).

Mythic owners (having already unlocked a weaponskill) should be considered to get an added perk, for example a merit-able option to enhance the Mythic WS (only if you obtained the weapon).

Do not introduce excessive additional ToM (such as killing 10,000 enemies). Any trial/quest should be reasonable and or none at all, there’s a lot of work put into R/M/E by the time they hit 95/99.

Consider giving owners of the 95 version of R/M/E a partial or complete damage increment, but not the added ATK/ACC (or in the case of the other jobs, +MACC,+MATK, etc) until 99.

Make sure the scale of weapons remains consistent among R/M/E. For example, you’re showing Burtgang with more damage than Excalibur (and I realize you were only showing those numbers as an example) but at 75 Excalibur was ahead, and then became even with Burtgang at 99. It would make most sense to at least keep them even for base damage (and yes I know Burtgang has more delay).

Know that these weapons are woven into the fabric of FFXI, and give you (Square Enix) a head start for new content: Dynamis, Abyssea, and ToAU are needed for these weapons, and open access to a lot of content opportunity for both these areas (such as making Sea II or Sky II) and for the weapons (special new upgrades or augments for R/M/E after SoA). This is more of a business reminder to help keep us players around longer: you have a ton of existing content that could be re-purposed into harder stuff.

Know that we love this game and that’s why we give this feedback :)


PS -I have many non-R/M/E fully upgraded ToM weapons completed (everything from 2-4 attack Greatsword to –PDT% sword). These took a lot of work, and it’d be sad to see them get replaced, but I don’t know if I’d trade one of my relics for 20 ToM weapons. Some gear get’s replaced, we're OK with that, just not R/M/E. I'm not saying trash standard ToM items either - because those are a great design option for casual players - just that there needs to be some priority.


--------- edit May 15,2013

Please also understand, that AH weapons are not a bad thing (a nice option for new players catching up with end content). They just should only ever be a close 2nd to R/M/E.

No. Epic Fail. I loved the new expansion, because it looked as though a clean sweep were coming, making everything pre-abyssea obsolete, including relics, mythics, and empyereans. Don't revamp them, that's old stuff. Tell all the people who cried and moaned and QQ'd over it to suck it up, they're done. It's a level 99 world. I liked the synergy augs and relic+2 armor and such at first, but then I realized that if you make everything upgradable to lvl 99 standards, there will be WAY TOO MUCH content, it's already way overwhelming. The majority of players aren't the same demographic they were 10 years ago, we don't have the time the kids have (kids by the way mostly don't play ffxi, its not in HD) to play all day, we have families and jobs. If you're going to do ANYTHING regarding relic,mythic,empyrean, give the existing relics to the jobs from toau, wotg, and soa, that don't get one, add new mythics for the new jobs that don't have one, and give runefencer and geomancer existing empyrean weapons.

This is the only MMO on the market where we still use gear from 8 years ago. The upgrades to the Zilart and Dynamis gear are cool, for nostalgia's sake, as it's the original endgame content from 10 years ago, but all the rest is just too much. Wipe the slate clean and start fresh. Sure some people will be pissed off that the weapons they spent years making aren't the best anymore, but who cares, they're still good for their special and hidden effects, its not all about base damage. And so what if the new weapons are better? They bloody should be! Cmon guys, out with the old and in with the new.

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Originally Posted by bobthetaru

This is the only MMO on the market where we still use gear from 8 years ago. The upgrades to the Zilart and Dynamis gear are cool, for nostalgia's sake, as it's the original endgame content from 10 years ago, but all the rest is just too much. Wipe the slate clean and start fresh. Sure some people will be pissed off that the weapons they spent years making aren't the best anymore, but who cares, they're still good for their special and hidden effects, its not all about base damage. And so what if the new weapons are better? They bloody should be! Cmon guys, out with the old and in with the new.

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You and most people have a misconception. Empy weapons are only as old as VW. So two years old at max. And they will make Aby and VW obsyete with unlocking on WoE and not a 99 Empy.

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Originally Posted by bobthetaru

This is the only MMO on the market where we still use gear from 8 years ago. The upgrades to the Zilart and Dynamis gear are cool, for nostalgia's sake, as it's the original endgame content from 10 years ago, but all the rest is just too much. Wipe the slate clean and start fresh. Sure some people will be pissed off that the weapons they spent years making aren't the best anymore, but who cares, they're still good for their special and hidden effects, its not all about base damage. And so what if the new weapons are better? They bloody should be! Cmon guys, out with the old and in with the new.

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That's part of the appeal for a lot of people. Shit in FFXI is not nearly as easy to get as it is in other MMOs, and never has been, and the devs have always understood that making players work their asses off for some small sidegrade and then the next time an update comes out, making it worthless, is not something that appeals to everyone. On top of that, FFXI's inventory system cannot possible support that kind of gameplay. The hell are we supposed to do with all of this old gear that we've spent years building up and making use of? Throw away our hard work and memories like their some cheap candy wrapper? Yea, no thanks. FFXI's gradual replacement of gear has always been a drawing point, and that they seem so set on just throwing that out the window really bothers a lot of us.

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Originally Posted by bobthetaru

This is the only MMO on the market where we still use gear from 8 years ago. The upgrades to the Zilart and Dynamis gear are cool, for nostalgia's sake, as it's the original endgame content from 10 years ago, but all the rest is just too much. Wipe the slate clean and start fresh. Sure some people will be pissed off that the weapons they spent years making aren't the best anymore, but who cares, they're still good for their special and hidden effects, its not all about base damage. And so what if the new weapons are better? They bloody should be! Cmon guys, out with the old and in with the new.

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Ah yes, and how many of those many many many mmos who followed such a pattern have died? The only one that manages to live is WoW and thats because it has the means to support that sort of system. FFXI is no where near that level and with SE constantly redlining I doubt they have the funds to do such a thing without constantly releasing boring content with tons of limitations (hi to you Skirmish). Also such a change may draw in a few new players but ultimately won't change it's current position on the market. Ever.

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Originally Posted by pretre

if only 99 empy weps getting a boost they may aswell erase abyssea cos it will kill it. why not give all stages of r/e/m weps a boost, I mean why make such a big part of the game pointless

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The road to a 99 still goes through Abyssea. Also Abyssea is still the go-to place for XP.

i think it's time SE loot again at the empyreans 90+ trials.
with Voidwatch dead, it is now impossible to get theses trials done.
so either :
-make the trials items rain there(instead of logs/ores) so if you even get a party, you'll at least progress instead of having 1% chance to have a single item
-make it drop somewhere else (and to keep it even with empy/relics, stuff that can mostly be soloed)
-and/or reduce the trials quantity items.

I havent read many other the other posts so forgive me if this repeats what has already been stated, but anyway.

The fact that weapons will have to be 99 is kinda upsetting, an upsetting number of people i know saying something to the effect of "If i have to get my RME to 99 for it to be considered for deserving to be on par with this new weapons i am quitting. The amount of effort put into then doesnt deserve a spit in the face like this" Its hard enough getting these weapons so them being so substantially outclassed by these new weapons unless they are 99 is on pace to offend many people.

However my main concern is the idea of making WoE weapons give full access to the Empyrean line of weapon skills to be unlocked for use by any weapon, why would anyone make an actual Empyrean weapon if they can simply unlock the WS via WoE weapon and then get one of the new content weapons and not have to get their empyrean through getting to 99 to be on the same level of damage. So if the unlock able versions are not watered down to a large degree many Empyrean owners will feel cheated, mythic weapons are still awesome because they are (or were) on par with the strongest weapons in the game and gave an increase to the mythic weapon skills. So even if you do give everyone fulltime access to empyrean weapon skills give them like 30 or maybe even 40% stat mods instead of 60% so empy owners will feel like atleast it was worth something



The idea of Challenge, Effort, Reward in the minds of people is not so that their reward will be belittled, the reason RME were considered the "Ultimate weapons" is because we worked hard for them and expected them to be the best on at least one of the best regardless of 85, 90, 95 or 99 we put in the effort when we thought the reward was worth the challenge, but if you give the reward to everyone and they can use stronger weapons with the same WS for less effort then what was our effort for then?

So in short my requests are this:
1:Consider making level 90 and on Weapons closer to on par with the new equipment and content

2:Please don't give full time access of Empyrean weapon skills via WoE weapons regardless of the difficulty planned for doing so as it will Belittle empy owners, unless the unlocked WSs are weakened without having the corresponding Empyrean/WoE weapon equipped

This is kind of a good idea if HMP becomes relatively common drops in Adoulin.

these changes sound great but I forsee mythic weapons + empyrean weapon skill combo being broken in many cases.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

The fact that weapons will have to be 99 is kinda upsetting, an upsetting number of people i know saying something to the effect of "If i have to get my RME to 99 for it to be considered for deserving to be on par with this new weapons i am quitting. The amount of effort put into then doesnt deserve a spit in the face like this" Its hard enough getting these weapons so them being so substantially outclassed by these new weapons unless they are 99 is on pace to offend many people.

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Alot of players have an 85, 90 and 95 R/M/E weapon... I'd imagine "most" that have an R/M/E weapon under 99 would express similar sentiments. Personally I only one lvl 99 R/M/E. My thoughts about this would be to suggest working on getting the R/M/E to lvl 99 or if that proves too challenging, getting one of the Delve/Skirmish weapons. Not trying to say the work you put into getting your 85, 90 or 95 R/M/E should be downplayed--no... I am simply making the observation that the weapon isn't "finished" and by "finished" I am referring to its final stage. (I am excluding Afterglow for obvious reasons).

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

The idea of Challenge, Effort, Reward in the minds of people is not so that their reward will be belittled, the reason RME were considered the "Ultimate weapons" is because we worked hard for them and expected them to be the best on at least one of the best regardless of 85, 90, 95 or 99 we put in the effort when we thought the reward was worth the challenge, but if you give the reward to everyone and they can use stronger weapons with the same WS for less effort then what was our effort for then?

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Well the producer did say he wanted to change the viewpoint of the R/M/E's being the best weapons by introducing weapons that can also be considered comparable. But I think the issue here is not the comparability of the R/M/E weapons to the Delve/Skirmish weapons, based on your argument---it seems that you'd rather some adjustment be proposed based on R/M/E weapons that are below lvl 99 (in effect, weapons that are not "finished"). Try this: Finish the weapon to 99... then come back to the table and argue about "the idea of challenge, effort, reward" an unfinished R/M/E can't be considerd the "Ultimate weapons"... can they?

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

So in short my requests are this: 1:Consider making level 90 and on Weapons closer to on par with the new equipment and content 2:Please don't give full time access of Empyrean weapon skills via WoE weapons regardless of the difficulty planned for doing so as it will Belittle empy owners, unless the unlocked WSs are weakened without having the corresponding Empyrean/WoE weapon equipped

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As far as your requests--#1. I can't see that happening at all. The weapons are unfinished... please justify making lvl 90 and on weapons closer to on par with the new equipment and content, if they are unfinished... I seriously would like to know the justification. Cause if it was me (my opinion)... I'd just stop doing the trials for an unfinished R/M/E and get a drop item weapon from Delve or Skirmish or even from a Bayld purchase... less time, energy and effort involved and you'll end up with a significantly better weapon. #2. No comment--the impact of the WoE weapons and the weapon skills being unlocked should be carefully evaluated before being introduced into the game... since we're talking about weapon skills that have greater significantly greater damage multiplier by TP being used with a potentially greater damaging weapon (post-SoA).

I would also unlock the RME WS for anyone that has their weapon level 90-99.

@ Xiozen
You mistake my intent, im merely pointing out that casual players would probably prefer this because demanding they get the weapons to 99 is very disheartening, and the general response i heard when the initial suggestion of raising the damage of RME to match Delve weapons was that in short, "If it has to be 99 i quit" for assorted reasons. Im willing to do it if i feel like it, i could personally care less but my justification? its just a shame to watch as SE doubles the pace of nails into its own coffin. When i get a 99 weapon, my argument will be the same, dont bite the hand that feels you, and if you do at least be nice about it. Furthermore you apparently mistake the word "finished" for the phrase "kinda finished but not really" as the only RME weapons that meet the definition of "finished" are afterglowed and without that they have not finished, so go do that and tell me how finished you were, the fact they are allowing the "kinda finished" versions to be upgraded merely falls in your favor. As far as the Empyrean WSs we kinda agree accept i dont want Empyreans to become glorified normal Nyzal isle dropped weapons, which is what they would become.

Actually, Camate. Question. Will the R/M/E Revamps be the 99 only, I assume?

With the upcoming revamps are some weapons and weaponskills going to be changed fundamentally to be actually effective? What immediately comes to mind is Gungnir, Redemption and Rhongomiant that are considered notoriously inferior even when compared to other RMEs. Or are these new changes simply adjustments to dmg+ atk/acc as shown in the sample? Will the weapon skills tied to the weapons be empowered to provide a new niche usage that fundamentally changes how the job functions? (ie. how Apocalypse allows DRK greater survivability with great damage and aftermath effects) and will Gungnir's additional defense down effect finally stack with other forms of defense down thus giving it an increase level of utility aside from actually weakening Dragoon by overwriting it's Angon effect?

As of now Gungnir does not fundamentally change how the job functions nor does it enhance it's currently role. Gierskogul and its aftermath presently provide nothing for the job as the weaponskill itself has always been subpar and extremely weak when compared to alternatives (aka any polearm weapon skill equal to and after penta thrust) and the aftermath atrocious as any dragoon who is using a subjob for defensive purposes has a longer and more potent(even if by 1-2%) spikes of some kind in effect. As a whole the weapon is a failure for what it was at 75 and still remains such at 99.

Redemption is simply weak compared to apocalypse in utility, damage, and performance bringing one to question why it even exists. Such a question can be applied to Rhongomiant whose stats are effectively identical and both share an equally weak weaponskill that effectively provides nothing for the jobs they belong too.

If I remember correctly there was a dev post indicating that they were going to make gungnir's additional effect stack with other defense downs.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

@ Xiozen
You mistake my intent, im merely pointing out that casual players would probably prefer this because demanding they get the weapons to 99 is very disheartening, and the general response i heard when the initial suggestion of raising the damage of RME to match Delve weapons was that in short, "If it has to be 99 i quit" for assorted reasons. Im willing to do it if i feel like it, i could personally care less but my justification? its just a shame to watch as SE doubles the pace of nails into its own coffin. When i get a 99 weapon, my argument will be the same, dont bite the hand that feels you, and if you do at least be nice about it. Furthermore you apparently mistake the word "finished" for the phrase "kinda finished but not really" as the only RME weapons that meet the definition of "finished" are afterglowed and without that they have not finished, so go do that and tell me how finished you were, the fact they are allowing the "kinda finished" versions to be upgraded merely falls in your favor. As far as the Empyrean WSs we kinda agree accept i dont want Empyreans to become glorified normal Nyzal isle dropped weapons, which is what they would become.

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It sounds like Delve weapons (30k ones) are what your friends should be shooting for.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.

To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.

In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.

While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.

However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.

I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.

With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:

Excalibur

↓

Burtgang

↓

Almace

↓

In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.

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Although this proposal(base dmg boost) is on the right track, it's still not thoughtful enough and certain empy 99 would still ended up a waste of effort. One of the example would be Armageddon lv 99, in most situations you'd use it for WF, it's base dmg/rattk/racc/ODD would be very irrelevant if you're using WF over another physical WS, and since base dmg doesn't affect the WS, technically you can just use a WoE gun to unlock WF, then use WF on a ice path magian gun with MAB+11 and do more WF dmg than an arma 99. The result would ended up a WoE gun+ice path gun can do close or more dmg than an arma 99

I spent around 190M to 99 my arma, when HMP cost 110~120k each. And I don't think it's fair that I have to grind another WoE+ice path or w/e new MAB gun for better result than a 190M arma 99 in situations you'd use WF.

I think either empy WS mod need to be more than +20, empy WS boost on empy 99 or change magical WS weapon, such as Armageddon, into mattk/macc+20. I have np grinding another higher base gun for last stand in w/e future content, but if I'm going to use WF, I want to WF with my Arma 99 and not anything else.

While I understand what he's proposing, I don't quite get what the direction of the R/M/E weapons are going towards. Are they going to make R/M/E weapons just be on par with the Delve weapons? Or will the R/M/E weapons be completely useless in the future?

I'm perfectly fine with them making the R/M/E weapons on the same level as the Delve weapons because it'll keep the R/M/E wielders happy and also give more options to the players who don't have a lot of time to spend on getting the R/M/E weapons.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

I would also unlock the RME WS for anyone that has their weapon level 90-99.

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A simple 5min Timed BC where you must use the RME WS on a Maat type mob would work just fine. (Mythic weapon type fight) It would allow anyone with access to the WS to unlock it. (85+ emp, WOE, Relic) Could make the player WS at 100,200,300tp like the Mythic quest to cock block people trying to unlock Relic WSs with the Abyssea drop weapons.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

Furthermore you apparently mistake the word "finished" for the phrase "kinda finished but not really" as the only RME weapons that meet the definition of "finished" are afterglowed and without that they have not finished, so go do that and tell me how finished you were, the fact they are allowing the "kinda finished" versions to be upgraded merely falls in your favor.

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If need be I'll "dig up" the post for you from the devs, explaining that lvl 99 Afterglow, is something they only expect, what like 1% of the player base to achieve...or something completely extreme.

The "Afterglow" effect was added (and I'm relating what I remember, since I still need to find the post) as a "reward" for those players that want to show off a "trophy effect" sorta speak. So... if you don't consider a level 99 R/M/E without Afterglow finished, well I'm sorry for you. :)

I truly doubt anyone but the hardest of core players will have an Afterglow weapon and that again, is a significantly small percentage of the entire population of collective servers players together. In effect, my opinion, a level 99 R/M/E is a finished weapon--however I assume we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

I havent read many other the other posts so forgive me if this repeats what has already been stated, but anyway.

The fact that weapons will have to be 99 is kinda upsetting, an upsetting number of people i know saying something to the effect of "If i have to get my RME to 99 for it to be considered for deserving to be on par with this new weapons i am quitting. The amount of effort put into then doesnt deserve a spit in the face like this" Its hard enough getting these weapons so them being so substantially outclassed by these new weapons unless they are 99 is on pace to offend many people.

However my main concern is the idea of making WoE weapons give full access to the Empyrean line of weapon skills to be unlocked for use by any weapon, why would anyone make an actual Empyrean weapon if they can simply unlock the WS via WoE weapon and then get one of the new content weapons and not have to get their empyrean through getting to 99 to be on the same level of damage. So if the unlock able versions are not watered down to a large degree many Empyrean owners will feel cheated, mythic weapons are still awesome because they are (or were) on par with the strongest weapons in the game and gave an increase to the mythic weapon skills. So even if you do give everyone fulltime access to empyrean weapon skills give them like 30 or maybe even 40% stat mods instead of 60% so empy owners will feel like atleast it was worth something



The idea of Challenge, Effort, Reward in the minds of people is not so that their reward will be belittled, the reason RME were considered the "Ultimate weapons" is because we worked hard for them and expected them to be the best on at least one of the best regardless of 85, 90, 95 or 99 we put in the effort when we thought the reward was worth the challenge, but if you give the reward to everyone and they can use stronger weapons with the same WS for less effort then what was our effort for then?

So in short my requests are this:
1:Consider making level 90 and on Weapons closer to on par with the new equipment and content

2:Please don't give full time access of Empyrean weapon skills via WoE weapons regardless of the difficulty planned for doing so as it will Belittle empy owners, unless the unlocked WSs are weakened without having the corresponding Empyrean/WoE weapon equipped

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Hey bro, if you can't get a your emps R or M's to 99 then you need to give up and upgrade to a new weapon from delve ok they are really easy to get so go do that.

Only the 99s need to be upgraded they where the best weapons not the 85-90s lol, if you stopped at that point you never planned to try and be the best and thats ok not everyone has the time or ability to make the gil but this update should be for ppl who finished there weapons to 99 emps 80-90 is a piece of cake takes like 2 weeks @ most if you do it everyday.

Getting a 99 anything take way more then that and if you don't plan on getting one please go get a delve weapon thats what there made for ppl like you so please stay out of this we don't need SE getting sidetracked and messing this all up again let the handle the task at have with good ideas from the ppl who actually had the best weapons in the game before update 99 R/M/E!

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Originally Posted by Byrth

I would also unlock the RME WS for anyone that has their weapon level 90-99.

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I think its too easy to get a 90 weapon to get get a weapon skill that will create so much imbalance

E.G mythic GA99 spamming ukko

all you would have to do is get a 90 ukko which now adays is cake.

I think if you put in the work to get a 99 emp and mythic the thats fine because its not easy, then you deserve it

Also i think if you unlock the emp WS for all weapons then doing it with the actual emp weapon it should be stronger when you do it with that weapon.

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Originally Posted by xiozen

If need be I'll "dig up" the post for you from the devs, explaining that lvl 99 Afterglow, is something they only expect, what like 1% of the player base to achieve...or something completely extreme.

The "Afterglow" effect was added (and I'm relating what I remember, since I still need to find the post) as a "reward" for those players that want to show off a "trophy effect" sorta speak. So... if you don't consider a level 99 R/M/E without Afterglow finished, well I'm sorry for you. :)

I truly doubt anyone but the hardest of core players will have an Afterglow weapon and that again, is a significantly small percentage of the entire population of collective servers players together. In effect, my opinion, a level 99 R/M/E is a finished weapon--however I assume we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.

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Regardless of what the DEV say im merely pointing out that you misconstrue the meaning of the word "finished" and your elitist tones cant change that: completed or perfected in all details, as a product. Or polished to the highest degree of excellence. These are finished so if we agree to disagree then you must also agree to disagree with the English dictionary

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Originally Posted by Smush

I think its too easy to get

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mythic GA99

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Is basically what you just said.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

Is basically what you just said.

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What im trying to say is if it only took a 90 ukko or a coin weapon to unlock ukkos fury to be used for all GAs
pretty much every war including casuals could get it and it wouldnt be to hard for a mythic war to unlock ukko and be a demi god.

If your going to allow that kind of power to be in the game make it take a lot of work so only the hardcore can obtain it.

It is a lot of work.

You'd have to have a mythic.

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Originally Posted by Kajikuro

Regardless of what the DEV say im merely pointing out that you misconstrue the meaning of the word "finished" and your elitist tones cant change that: completed or perfected in all details, as a product. Or polished to the highest degree of excellence. These are finished so if we agree to disagree then you must also agree to disagree with the English dictionary

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Afterglow versions are 99 +1, which is a finished product.
The 99 version without afterglow is also a finished product.

In fact, the afterglow adds absolutely zero to the weapon itself. Therefore, it's still equal in combat to a 99 without afterglow. Furthermore, the afterglow effect does not even affect you, so your combat capabilities between a 99 weapon and a 99 afterglow weapon do not change at all. They are the exact same weapon in the hands of the wielder.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

It is a lot of work.

You'd have to have a mythic.

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Yeah that part is a lot but the 90 ukko or coin weapon is not imo, i just think to get that strong you should need both 99.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Afterglow versions are 99 +1, which is a finished product.
The 99 version without afterglow is also a finished product.

In fact, the afterglow adds absolutely zero to the weapon itself. Therefore, it's still equal in combat to a 99 without afterglow. Furthermore, the afterglow effect does not even affect you, so your combat capabilities between a 99 weapon and a 99 afterglow weapon do not change at all. They are the exact same weapon in the hands of the wielder.

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QFT... This.