DRK is 3x more OP than vanilla WAR's Ukko's Fury

So if you have phorcys body and Ogiers breeches... then wont Twilight body be the best ws peice for Catastrophe and Entropy? Since the ws dmg from both peices dosent stack? Or maybe phorcys body and huggin hose nq/hq version be a better combo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Armangetto

So if you have phorcys body and Ogiers breeches... then wont Twilight body be the best ws peice for Catastrophe and Entropy? Since the ws dmg from both peices dosent stack? Or maybe phorcys body and huggin hose nq/hq version be a better combo?

---

They do stack, they just only apply on first hit. Makes the WS DMG+ useless for WS's like Resolution / Entropy, but still useful for high fTP one hit WS's like Cata. I don't know what DRK can get for INT/AGI in the leg department, I'm thinking INT+12 but I could be wrong. Ogier might be better if your not capping attack. Phorcy's body is a harder sell, it's basically a ton of attack and WS DMG +5% vs AGI +15 INT +15 on a 40/40 WS. Would depend on your attack situation.

Thanks for clearing that up. I dont think theres a leg armor that has int and agi on them that drk can use. The best I can think of would be Huginn hose (DEF:52 HP+50 MP+50 STR+10 VIT+10 INT+10 MND+10 Accuracy+12 Attack+16) Those might be best for entropy. I dont know it they would beat Ogiers for Cata.

Phorcys+Ogier for Catastrophe and Scourge.

Phorcys+Bale+2 for Resolution.

Twilight+Huginn for Entropy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saevel

Phorcy's body is a harder sell, it's basically a ton of attack and WS DMG +5%

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Everything I ever saw said Phorcys is 7%, and the floor 80 body is 5%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Everything I ever saw said Phorcys is 7%, and the floor 80 body is 5%.

---

Your correct, I was thinking the floor 80 piece for some reason.

going back to the legion thingy.

On the second wave of Mul(teir2) the mobs seem to have a -crit% since all our DRKs and WARs had a 0-3% crit rate on them and since the weapon + base + merit for my rag is +21% min crit rate it seems they have a -20%-30% crit rate applied to them.

Also Acc wasn't capped w/ Aggressor + 2h Blade mad + Hunters + Ragna

Either way kinda pushes Great sword use over Ukons drastically also admittedly we still have WAR/s for Tomahawk but wave 1 they Ukons and wave 2 they use ragna.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Also Acc wasn't capped w/ Aggressor + 2h Blade mad + Hunters + Ragna

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Code:

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Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg  Net Dmg  Melee %  Hit/Miss    M.HR %  M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg
Kaerin                41856          0    41856  41.84 %    154/10  93.90 %  93.90 %    0/598  228.49  236.43

---

Mul, wave2+3 only. Ukonvasara99, Hasso, Aggressor, 1 Madrigal, sometimes feint, and this TP set:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/255456
94% Accuracy is within the error range of 95% ACC given that its a small sample size, but clearly, my accuracy is capped, or so close to it that it doesn't matter and a few parses won't help. (Accuracy caps at 95%)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Either way kinda pushes Great sword use over Ukons drastically also admittedly we still have WAR/s for Tomahawk but wave 1 they Ukons and wave 2 they use ragna.

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Code:

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Melee Crit Damage
Player                #Crit  C.Low/Hi  C-0.Avg    Crit%
Kaerin                  35  209/725    419.03  22.73 %

---

While the -Crit trait seems to be true for wave 2+3 in Mul, and makes Ukon not better than Ragnarok for just those specific mobs, Ukonvasara is better for everything else inside and outside Legion. And WAR with Ragnarok will be better than DRK with Ragnarok if the WAR can cap attack +8%, and since no one really knows how much attack you need for these mobs, continuing this discussion is pointless.

I'm guessing it was an unlucky Hunters roll but my avg was like 92% but it was capped on a couple and 88% ish on others.

Since you didn't estimate white DMG

Ur set has 18% da + 15% + 15%~ (war roll)

= 48% Da

so 148% attack * 153 * 1.3 * 1.7 = 499.8

crits add roughly 110 dmg

So 148% * 110 * 1.3 * 0.2(this is wars increase over drk) = 42.32

so 499.8 + 42.3 = 524 dmg per attack round


==================================================


DRK

14% Da + 5% QA and 2% Ta + 10 Da + 15 Da

so 5% QA + 2% ta + 39% Da

5% QA adds 15% more attack

2% ta adds 4% more attack * 0.95 = 3.8%

39% da adds 39% attacks * 0.95 * 0.98 = 36.3%

So 15+3.8+36.3 = 55.1

So 155% attacks

1.55*143*1.7 = 376.8

O2.5xD

143*1.7*1.5*0.13 = 47

So 423.8 DMG an attack round

+ Souleater
160*0.33 = 52
=476.6
+ Factor in delay
=482/444 = 1.086
1.086*476.6 = 517 Total for DMG per attack round for DRK.

So WAR has more white DMG by 1.3% (can add like +2%-3% more to WAR since i missed a few things)

before you account for the 6% more attack speed reduction that DRK gets pushing DRK to 549 DMG per attack round vs WARs 524

Either way the way i did this is pretty rough so hard to say DRK > WAR but it's rough enough to show DRK is at the same lvl as WAR for white DMG.

As for WS rate in your tp setup you should be getting a 6 hit even w/ the + 12 tp from embrava

For DRK/WAR i six hit ever time i get 2 ticks from embrava w/ 32 store tp in gear

While i'd say it isn't a 100% 6 hit it is a well over 80% 6 hit rate

so i guess i have a 0.8*6 + 0.2*7 =
4.8+1.4 = 6.2 hit

431*5.2*0.2 = 448.24 delay for DRK per ws
482*5*0.2125 = 512.1 delay for WAR per WS

So DRK still WSs 14% faster than WAR (+4% more for multi attack)

If WAR can 5 hit Ukon while keeping haste capped it would be interesting to see u'd need 25 store tp in gear /SAM for WAR to 5 hit.

No idea what stats you'd sacrifice tho

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Rose + Oglier hands + Raja + Tyrants + H.stone + phorcys legs = 32 store tp (DRK has more stp option so yea 6 hit is very possible w/ embrava and it's the reason why 5 hit is possible for WAR)
Then u can Bale+2 head+Enif body+Mala+Windbuffet+Atheling+Phroc feet+Brutal
For 14% Da + 5% QA and 2% Ta
Gear Haste total is 15%
15% + 25% + 43.75 = 83.75 so u still cap haste

---

Is the set i used for the calc

Either way like i said WAR seems to -5 to 5% white DMG and 4-14% less WS DMG than DRK just from the maths I've roughly done (reflected in 10% error bars)

feel free to put the data here in a more detail calculation as ya did before but i'm sure it'll come out roughly the same unless you what to ignore the way i obtain a 6 hit on DRK

Which is were i came to the point i came to before WAR and DRK are on the same lvl

I would use both for legion

WAR for Tomahawk and mighty strikes for bosses
DRK for the abilty to SE to strongest mob in a wave so that it can increase it's DMG when needed the most.

I also look forward to En-tpdrain 2hr for DRK being able to increase WS rate drastically and reduce a mobs WS rate at the same time

If you watch my Legion videos you can clearly see my WAR rocks a 2 or 3 hit inside Legion, DRKs gonna be 3-4.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

If you watch my Legion videos you can clearly see my WAR rocks a 2 or 3 hit inside Legion, DRKs gonna be 3-4.

---

So we've gone from I've done the maths and WAR > DRK to just eyeballing it and saying cause i played w/ a DRK, WAR > DRK .... come on.

Tho from what I've worked out

DRK and WAR WS dmg is roughly the same
DRK WSes faster
DRK deals roughly about equal white dmg

so either I've done something wrong in the math (it's all provided) or i'm missing something massive on WAR

Also w/ your model of Legion the one were attack and acc are always capped

It is Possible for DRK to 5 hit /SAM which when worked out makes DRK > WAR by a decent margin. (note i only /WAR cause it's stronger cause i still notice the attack from berserk)

Either way all i'll say is this....

You came in here going on about WAR > DRK before you did the maths (since u didn't know DRK could 6 hit and didn't know it's WS set)
Then complained when someone said there on the same lvl lol.

Like i said i'm happy if ya want to try and prove it within a reasonable % but until then all you've really proved is that you can outparse the DRK that does legion w/ you which doesn't mean much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

If you watch my Legion videos you can clearly see my WAR rocks a 2 or 3 hit inside Legion, DRKs gonna be 3-4.

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3-4 with a lower delay weapon and 80% reduction...when needed DRK has far superior ACC and gear flexibility while maintaining capped delay.

Kaerin will have a Rag soon and then she can hop off of Ukon's cock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

So we've gone from I've done the maths and WAR > DRK to just eyeballing it and saying cause i played w/ a DRK, WAR > DRK .... come on.

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That was me telling you in the most polite notcombative way I can that I no longer care, and that you're wrong at the same time while also providing proof that youre wrong by telling you to watch the videos of Legion I streamed/watch it when I stream it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

3-4 with a lower delay weapon and 80% reduction...when needed DRK has far superior ACC and gear flexibility while maintaining capped delay.

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Dont need more ACC than the basic Ukon ACC set, so being able to have more of it doesnt matter. Thats like bragging that my WAR can hit 35% gear haste.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Kaerin will have a Rag soon and then she can hop off of Ukon's cock.

---

I was thinking of making a Ragnarok for my DRK to give myself some job versatility over WAR, NIN, Treasure Hunter 7, on my melee mule, but there's other people in my LS buying coins right now, so to avoid driving up the prices I will wait a bit. But you're right, I will make a Ragnarok soonish, its pretty cheap after all. Unfortunately that doesnt change the fact that WAR is still the superior job, and Ragnarok is only the best weapon for it in Mul.

Except you really haven't proven much except the ukkos is maybe 2% stronger which it well inside there error of your calculations.

Thing is you get so gun hoe about DMG you forget to talk about then important stuff on WAR like Tomahawk and mighty strike that alone makes taking 2 WARs into Mul vital if you need to kill the B.Rex admittally WAR kinda needs to use a Ragna without 2 wars i think b.rex is impossible.

Outside of mul

On the normal runs we prefer DRKs mainly cause it's definitively the strongest pdless job since you stack alot more pdt/mdt with gear all while you keep haste caped then you have stun and yea DRKs rotating stuns for tp moves it prolly a million times better than 2% more ukkos dmg cause ya rotated bloodrage.

Also watching a video will prove war is the best ! ? that certainly is eyeballing at it's finest maybe i'll post a video of a full perle tp/wsing in it too warrior w/ 85 ukon vs my 95 ragna drk and just be like BRO DRK IS THE BESTEST BECAUSE OF THIS VIDEO!!!!

Btw your the one that started this you wanted to prove WAR was better w/ math while all the time insulting but to your credit you did finally give a semi accurate calculation for WAR and DRK ws dmg which wasn't that big of a difference to prove anything but least you were being fair and that's why i posted gear set and was actually trying to help you correctly calulate everything by giving you gear sets and explain how i play legion ect...

Anyway lets just say this

I say DRK and WAR are on the same level of DMG proved by my rough calculations and your calculations and so many parses which means it's what else the jobs bring to the table that defines there usefulness

w/ DRK you have COR roll(10% attack) Stun, Souleater and Arcane circle and a much more survivable job cause of the abilt to stack more pdt/mdt than any other job while keeping haste capped.
w/ WAR you have COR roll(+?% DA) Tomahawk, Mighty strikes, Blood rage/Warcry

at the end of the day you need Tomahawk on some halls and the COR roll from DRK and arcane circle helps DMG alot on some halls (3/5 halls have arcana mobs)

Then you have the Mighty strikes vs Souleater thing

In Normal waves Souleater is better imo not cause of more DMG but the fact you can use it on the strongest mob of a wave for every wave (basically increasing your dmg when it's important) (tho some of the time souleater isn't even needed)

Mighty strikes is superior over Souleater for stuff like B.Rex/Ig Alma cause there reallly tough and you need as much DMG as you can get on those

Either way you need both and the DMG difference between the 2 jobs is not that big of a deal and when you come to the DD+1 thing it's dumb to choose a WAR over DRK cause of blood rage cause playerskill/gear is definitely a much bigger factor.

Then you say WAR is the best all of the time cause .... you have legion videos or that you outparse a DRK in your shell .... yea ok.

Either way i'm guessing you see the reason i went with the WAR = DRK thing cause it's a much much easier point to prove yours on the other hand i believe is impossible not cause WAR may have the advatage math side but a math model != real game so the error variance means u'd prolly need to mathmatically prove WAR > DRK by a good 10% which from what i've seen isn't possible unless you want to ignore certian things (which would make it inaccarate agian)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Then you say WAR is the best all of the time cause .... you have legion videos or that you outparse a DRK in your shell .... yea ok.

---

Quick Corrections here.

*My LS doesn't have a dark knight. We borrowed one for our last Mul, and maybe you watched that video and saw him and thats why you think that. I never posted a parse as proof WAR is best, or said to watch a video that proves it, because thats a ridiculous idea. I said to watch the video so you could see that I don't require 5 attack rounds to hit 100TP, its 2 or 3. Thats the only thing I wanted to tell you to watch the video for, sorry if you misunderstood.

If war gets 5 hit the same way drk gets a 5 hit (possible w/ 2nd cor doing tacticians but DRK can stack another 7% DA then)

5 hit WAR = (0.2125*482*4)/1.48 = 276 Delay per WS
6 Hit DRK = (0.2*431*5)/1.62 = 266 Delay per WS

1.48 is the multi attack rate for WAR
1.62 is the multi attack rate for DRK (it's 1.55 w/ the gear i posted but w/ Tacticians you don;t need the Stp any more so u can put in 7% more in)

So yea WAR is still not spamming out those WSes any faster than DRK is.

Also 5 hit is less reliable than a 6 hit when ur relying on regain since you may get those 4 hits off faster than you can get the 2 ticks required.

You told us you use a DRK for chaos rolls that's why i presumed you used it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

You told us you use a DRK for chaos rolls that's why i presumed you used it

---

We had a DRK when we started, but he got tired and quit showing up. Probably because he was EU and found other stuff to do, like sleep. We now have a DRK we sorta bring who isn't in our LS, but there was a long time there we didnt have a DRK at all, lol. And seriously, your DRK set is wack, WAR has more DA than you think, You're forgetting WAR AF3+2 set procs, blah blah blah blah.

Did I mention how much I dont care since Mul T2+ mobs have a -crit trait or something? Continued claims by you are just going to make me prove you wrong, show why your set is stupid, laugh at you, etc. Stop while you're ahead and I'm being lazy.

If there is anything this thread has taught us (other then don't get into a troll debate with wish), it's that WAR and DRK are both fully capable DD's that largely have the same damage potential. Reaching that potential is up to the player and the various situations we find ourselves in.

3 pieces of WAR af+2 adds like 1-2% to your overall DMG at most so yea it's not something that makes WAR the best DD in the game lol.

As for would i be an idiot if you proved me wrong well considering all i said was DRK and WAR were on the same level backed up by the rough math and experience I've had which is a true statement even if WAR >>>>>>>>>>>>> DRK cause like i said i can't make a perfect mathematical model nor do i believe it's possible so /shrug.Anyway all my data is above and i'm happy for anyone to correct or do w/e to it.

Were as you came along w/ all the claims of WAR > DRK w/ all the claims that it can be proved with maths implying you worked it all out but no you didn't even touch the math before you made your claims meaning those claim u made were pretty much purly from u eyeballing/parsing against some /random DRK.

You still haven't proved attack / acc are capped full time on WAR

For example your mul data.

154hits 10misses = 93.9% acc

Standard error is Standard Dev / sqrt(no of hits)
0.23457/12.8 = 0.0183

So basically u have proved you are @ 92%-95% acc not that ur at capped acc not to mention the error levels are higher than that cause for each mob there different hit rates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Standard error is Standard Dev / sqrt(no of hits)
0.23457/12.8 = 0.0183

So basically u have proved you are @ 92%-95% acc not that ur at capped acc not to mention the error levels are higher than that cause for each mob there different hit rates.

---

Or, if my ACC was actually capped, 95%, it would show up as 93%-97%.

Feint for the more evasive mobs, Impact for the really crappy ones.

My acc is 154/10 because I missed 2 hits due to naked H2H, and it was still 94%. Remove those two misses and it's 95%. I told you to watch the Legion video related to the parse, if you did you would of caught it and I would not have needed to make this 5 second edit of the video:
http://youtu.be/lSsaz0SSRbE <Click this, now stop acting like I didn't have capped ACC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

3 pieces of WAR af+2 adds like 1-2% to your overall DMG at most so yea it's not something that makes WAR the best DD in the game lol.

---

In a game of winning by a small amount +2% is pretty big.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

As for would i be an idiot if you proved me wrong well considering all i said was DRK and WAR were on the same level backed up by the rough math and experience I've had which is a true statement even if WAR >>>>>>>>>>>>> DRK cause like i said i can't make a perfect mathematical model nor do i believe it's possible so /shrug.Anyway all my data is above and i'm happy for anyone to correct or do w/e to it.

Were as you came along w/ all the claims of WAR > DRK w/ all the claims that it can be proved with maths implying you worked it all out but no you didn't even touch the math before you made your claims meaning those claim u made were pretty much purly from u eyeballing/parsing against some /random DRK.

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I worked it out using the gear sets I thought of as "what you should be using." Your gear set is worse than the assumed one I one I made, which I know can't be right since I put very little effort or thought into it, and then with the -crit trait or whatever it is, I stopped caring. I'm only here to prove the things you say are wrong at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

You still haven't proved attack / acc are capped full time on WAR

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Would you like the entire video to count my hits and misses?

All I did was check 1400~ attack compared to 1600~ compared to 1700~ in weaker chambers, and got the same average damage per hit on 1600~ and 1700~, lower on 1400~ so I assume somewhere around 1600~ will be capped. Which means mobs would have like 700 Defense, which makes sense to me. I didn't do an indepth study or anything to determine the real defense values of every mob. I just made observations based on collected data. Which is why I never gave absolutes in terms of attack, pDIF, etc, just gave values based on my observations and what I think they are. And also why I said this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

and since no one really knows how much attack you need for these mobs, continuing this discussion is pointless.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saevel

Umm what ..

WAR/SAM
DRK/SAM

Both have a 3/5min 25% attack boost. WAR had DA, DRK has SE. And if your talking pure embrava / PD "zerg" then DRK/WAR has both Berserk and LR to go with their SE. WAR has aggressor but WAR also has less accuracy then DRK.

The only thing WAR has over DRK is MS / Savagery WC. MS can be done once per 2hr for insane numbers. Nice to have but I like to fight more then 1 NM per event day.

---

On higher content you generally go drk/war while war always go /sam. I think this is enough to explain why war with GS is > to drk with GS.

Sampling stuff zzz boring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Would you like the entire video to count my hits and misses?

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/sigh not the point i'm making the point i'm making is sampling error

Basic example...
i hit a mob once
does i mean i have 100% acc ... no it means i have 1-100% acc as you take more hits the error becomes smaller and smaller.

In other words it's possible to have 94% hit rate w/ 92% hit rate meaning u proved nothing outside your hit rate is 90%+.

I'm sure you attack testing would prolly fall under the same errors

As for my gear choices the set i posted is by far the best u can do w/ a mathematical(may not be best in a real model cause of human error) model w/ 6 tick embrava but if you consider tact roll u can drop Stp gear for 7% more Da and considering i already said that and considering it's the highest(exculding dup grip) value of multi attack DRK can have it should be the best.

Ofc your sets did not even consider 6 hits so how the hell did your 7 hit sets beat the stuff i was talking about lol.

and let me remind you of this....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

Ragnarok has a 14% Crit rate bonus @ 99

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This is where I stopped caring what you think, because you outted yourself as having no idea whats going on. No intelligent DRK would ever use scourge.

---

Not even knowing the base stats on the weapon ur comparing against.

Not to mention u didn't even consider Souleater DMG in WS before this from ur old numbers so don't pretend u worked anything out before hand.

Long story short all i'm saying if you want to make a claim like WAR > DRK you need to

A) Do proper testing(500+ sample for each mob (LOL) and proper accurate math (nothing close to mine or yours so far) on top of that then you need to make sure your not making mistakes and the best way is to get someone to compare and caliculate error margins (incredibly difficult consideing even the equations we use are estimates)

or

B) you need to prove DRK is weaker by a good margin by like 7-10% which

and since A) is like ok get a life kinda of work and B) is defintly not true for either your pretty much stuck at saying there about equal or it's an opinion with no real grounds.


========================

Onwards...

Ragna DRK vs Ragna WAR

It's really tough to call imo

While in general pple w/ DRK and WAR parse higher on DRK w/ Ragna in my group.

But you will not kill the brex in mul w/out at least 2 tomahawks and may even need a 3rd so for that alone there more useful and ofc mighty strikes.

For the cookie cutter halls souleater seems more useful overall than mighty strikes since you can use it more than once and there's no need to reset between runs ofc you take 1-2 for Tomahawk and Fighters boost.

As far as i can tell 2 WARs for Tomahawk and 2 DRKs for Stun locking if needed the + 1 DD w/e you have that is the best (i think Mythic DRG is the best +1 DD but there so rare /drool) can kill any hall w/ the right surrport ^^.

ofc all my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

/sigh not the point i'm making the point i'm making is sampling error

Basic example...
i hit a mob once
does i mean i have 100% acc ... no it means i have 1-100% acc as you take more hits the error becomes smaller and smaller.

In other words it's possible to have 94% hit rate w/ 92% hit rate meaning u proved nothing outside your hit rate is 90%+.

---

My ACC parsed at 95%, which is capped, if you remove the 2 misses from naked H2H, stop trying to say my acc was not capped when it clearly was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

As for my gear choices the set i posted is by far the best u can do w/ a mathematical(may not be best in a real model cause of human error) model w/ 6 tick embrava but if you consider tact roll u can drop Stp gear for 7% more Da and considering i already said that and considering it's the highest(exculding dup grip) value of multi attack DRK can have it should be the best.

---

You're missing obvious things, like Valkyrie Breastplate. Same #of extra attacks, but gains what could be potentially useful attack instead of proven useless ACC. It also adds 3~ Base damage, which will be at least +1.5% damage during TP, since your fSTR is definitely not capped in your set and that will always push it ahead even if the attack isn't useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

Ofc your sets did not even consider 6 hits so how the hell did your 7 hit sets beat the stuff i was talking about lol.

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Your set is every piece of double attack gear you can think of, with stp put in 2 slots you dont have DA items for. Any set with any amount of actual thought put into it can beat yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

and let me remind you of this....



Not even knowing the base stats on the weapon ur comparing against.

---

I thought he was talking about the aftermath effect for a minute, not exactly a big deal since the aftermath is ALSO critical hit rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

Not to mention u didn't even consider Souleater DMG in WS before this from ur old numbers so don't pretend u worked anything out before hand.

---

Because quality DRKs dont spam souleater like it's going out of fashion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

Long story short all i'm saying if you want to make a claim like WAR > DRK you need to...

---

Find a DRK with a clue to tell me what the best gear sets are? Ya, I totally agree. But hey, I have been putting effort into figuring this out on my own recently since every DRK out there seems to be clueless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rezeak

Onwards...

Ragna DRK vs Ragna WAR

It's really tough to call imo

---

WAR has Tomahawk and Mighty Strikes, and since this discussion is only about Mul T2+, both of things matter way more than they should. WAR is better.

Acc- sampling error

gear- Enif + Calmecac Trousers (ur point is correct but can use those for better results in high acc/atk)

Spamming SE - Some chambers it makes no odds other chambers you time it in combination w/ pulls so there's less down time for the tougher mobs.

DRK with a clue - loads on FFXIAH maybe if you made like 1 post or read the DRK tp and WS discussions and were a little more open minded and didn't make statements you can't prove u may get somewhere.

Mul- Thats my groups choice over all Ragna users have WAR and DRK we find 2 WARs + 2 DRKs + 1 WAR or DRK(for stuns and roll) is out better setup.
Outside Mul- we DRK X 4 WAR X 1 cause it always get further for us.

Little more info on how we do mul

WAVE 1 we do PDless except the skele.
WAVE 2 we do PD on all but IG (use CS stun + arcane circle)
WAVE 3 PD ig-alma and if we have PD left we try B.rex

To stay alive on mob we have 3 layers of stuns
Layer 1 SMNs
Layer 2 SCH and RDM (Focusing on tp moves)
Layer 3 2-3 DRKs rotating for tp moves as well.

Baasically the drks back up the mages for stuns and it increases our survivabilty alot and yea if we didn't rely so much on the stuns and the fact our DRKs do better than WARs dmg wise we'd prolly be WAR X 4 DRK x 1.

I think i write this every post lol... I haven't ever said WAR > DRK is not true lol I'm just saying you w/out real proof like a very detailed mathematical model or clear difference between the jobs saying anything but WAR and DRK are on the same level is just being close minded.

Either way I've wasted enough time on this if ya want gear sets or w/e i can do them outside if that the point that u can't prove WAR > DRK hasn't changed since the start so it feels wasteful of my time to talk about it anymore.

Is anyone even reading what wish and rezeak have to say anymore? I think you both have lost seeing as no one cares

Feel free to ignore me i was only posting out of my own interest in discussing things w/ wish which is the point of a forum lol plus i enjoy playing w/maths every so often(yes i'm werid :X).
As for winning and losing if ya care about winning and losing on an online forum about 2 fictional jobs in an online game then well you may need to relax a little :).

PS you cared enough to post ^^.

I was using this forum as a 'guide to legion' thread lol.