Thank you for Stardiver!

Been using Sceamol Band/Brutal Earring/Avant Mail+1/Avant Cuisses+1/AF3 Hands/Jinang's Greaves/Atheling Mantle/Windbuffet Belt

24% DA/2%TA/1% QA coupled with 40% OAT.

Ok,updated. Checking jump types:

Jump: Twilight > Mekira > Sceamol
Spirit Jump: Mekira = Sceamol > Twilight

High Jump: Twilight = Mekira = Sceamol
Soul Jump: Sceamol > Mekira > Twilight

Using a threshhold of at least about 0.1 DPS difference for one to be considered better than the next, as well as comparing direct damage per jump round.

Overall it looks like Twilight if you want Jump/High Jump, and Sceamol if you want Spirit/Soul Jump.

Also, Windbuffet Belt looks like the best waist option for all jumps.

Didn't look too much into optimizing other slots.

Would this hold true for other DA gear in general on Spirit/Soul or would we need to look at each slot individually? I know DA has diminishing returns but the closer to getting a double-hit Jump for that sweet 80-120 TP the better I figure.

Also Yugl wants to know if this is considering OAT lance or a non OAT?

This is for the lvl 99 OAT lance. For other slots, they'd have to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Motenten

This is for the lvl 99 OAT lance. For other slots, they'd have to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

---

so Sceamol for people not using OaT lance right?

Would it be possible to evaluate the optimal set for Spirit/Soul Jump for increasing the odds of a multi-hit Jump i.e DA/TA/TA vs other options?

Neck: Ganesha Mala vs Justiciar's Torque
Body: Avant Mail+1 vs Ace's Mail
Hands:Heca+1(STR+8 Crit dmg+4%) vs AF3(STR+8 DA+4%)
Legs: Avant Cuisses+1 vs AF3
Feet:(Soul Jump only, because Spirit Jump is AF3 or bust)
Hecatomb Leggings Augment(STR+4 Att+6 Pole Arm Skill+4) vs Jinjang's Greaves

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophannus

Would it be possible to evaluate the optimal set for Spirit/Soul Jump for increasing the odds of a multi-hit Jump i.e DA/TA/TA vs other options?

Neck: Ganesha Mala vs Justiciar's Torque
Body: Avant Mail+1 vs Ace's Mail
Hands:Heca+1(STR+8 Crit dmg+4%) vs AF3(STR+8 DA+4%)
Legs: Avant Cuisses+1 vs AF3
Feet:(Soul Jump only, because Spirit Jump is AF3 or bust)
Hecatomb Leggings Augment(STR+4 Att+6 Pole Arm Skill+4) vs Jinjang's Greaves

---

From my understanding spirit/soul jump have no real notable mods or anything, so i was always under the impression of Multi-hit and crit dmg+ as only worthwild attributes, as such af3 legs and all the QA/TA/DA you can carry. not sure how marginal any stacking on str and such would do in comparison(to multi hit proc and crit dmg+).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophannus

Would it be possible to evaluate the optimal set for Spirit/Soul Jump for increasing the odds of a multi-hit Jump i.e DA/TA/TA vs other options?

Neck: Ganesha Mala vs Justiciar's Torque
Body: Avant Mail+1 vs Ace's Mail
Hands:Heca+1(STR+8 Crit dmg+4%) vs AF3(STR+8 DA+4%)
Legs: Avant Cuisses+1 vs AF3
Feet:(Soul Jump only, because Spirit Jump is AF3 or bust)
Hecatomb Leggings Augment(STR+4 Att+6 Pole Arm Skill+4) vs Jinjang's Greaves

---

Target: Bukhis (moderately high def, but acc capped)
Evaluating based on Total DPS, so that it accounts for TP gain applied to weaponskills. If same total DPS, choosing based on higher jump round damage.

Lvl 99 OAT Lance w/Rose Grip:

- Spirit Jump:
Head: Mekira (== Sceamol DPS, higher jump damage)
Neck: Ganesha
Body: Lancer +2 (beats both Ace's and Avant +1)
Hands: augmented Heca+1 (== Lancer+2 DPS, higher jump damage)
Legs: Lancer +2


- Soul Jump:
Head: Sceamol
Neck: Ganesha
Body: Lancer +2
Hands: Lancer +2
Legs: Lancer +2
Feet: augmented heca == Jingang


Lvl 99 Str Lance w/Pole Grip:

- Spirit Jump:
Head: Sceamol
Neck: Ganesha
Body: Lancer +2 (beats both Ace's and Avant +1; Avant +1 beats Ace's)
Hands: Lancer +2
Legs: Lancer +2


- Soul Jump:
Head: Sceamol
Neck: Ganesha
Body: Lancer +2
Hands: Lancer +2
Legs: Lancer +2 == Calmecac > Avant +1
Feet: Jingang


Generally very similar gear sets. Lancer+2 body trounces Aces/Avant+1 in total DPS, although both of those bodies do a smidge more in direct damage (4 to 8 points out of a 500 dmg round). The +10 Store TP on the AF3 body pushes the TP return above what you need to make it a 'real' hit in your x-hit build.

Also, overall, OAT lance is 2% ahead of Str lance with 0.5 over-TP rounds; they tie at somewhere around 1.25 to 1.3 over-TP rounds.

I figured the +10 Store TP on Jumps was moot since on a OAT proc you get TP overflow.

That's... actually rather complicated to model. It needs discrete value calculations on top of averages. Doing a bit of math by hand to see if the simple modeling was notably off (and assuming the ws set I have in place, and using the average TP required to 100 on Stardiver as the base):

Edit:
[[
Suppose I should add -- Average TP needed to reach 100 TP after Stardiver with the build I have set up is 78.4 TP. That includes probability distribution of all possible TP returns, but (just now realizing) does not include Conserve TP. With Conserve TP, the case of Ace's/Avant on a 2-hit Spirit Jump will allow for you to not need the Store TP of Lancer +2 the majority of the time (90%) that Conserve TP procs; proc rate is 32% with elemental belt. Adjust your assessment of the worth of the tradeoff from there.
]]


Spirit Jump w/AF3+2 feet:
If jump lands 1 hit, can use Ace's/Avant and keep x-hit (need 2 more hits to reach 100 TP)
If jump lands 2 hits, insufficient TP to weaponskill if using Ace's/Avant, so need 1 additional hit; Lancer+2 gives you enough TP to weaponskill immediately
If jump lands 3+ hits, get 100+ TP

Soul Jump:
If jump lands 1 hit, short of the TP needed for 1 more hit to give you 100 TP (need 2 hits or DA/OAT/etc proc) regardless of body used
If jump lands 2 or more hits, should always get 100+ TP


So I was wrong. Basically, the only instance where you want Lancer+2 over the other bodies is a Spirit Jump that gets exactly 2 hits. Of course that's going to be fairly common with an OAT lance.

With the 1-hit Soul Jump, you want 43+ total Store TP in order to put you 1 hit away from 100 TP (this only works for OAT lance; str lance will always need 2 hits to reach 100 TP after a 1-hit Soul Jump). Assuming Rose/Brutal/Rajas/Lancer+2 body, you need another 8 Store TP to manage that, which would require compromising jump damage a fair bit.

Since you can't predict the number of hits that will land, you need to decide on the value of dropping an extra hit to 100 TP. I'd say you don't get enough extra damage from Ace's/Avant on Spirit jump (less than 1%) to sacrifice the reduced number of hits on a significant fraction of the jumps made, so would still recommend Lancer+2 there. For Soul Jump, on the other hand, there's too much sacrificed for a small bit of gain. In that case I'd go with the best pure damage piece, which would be Ace's.

Don't thank SE until they reduce the 19% attack penalty on Drakesbane.

Just anecodtally, /WAR trounces /SAM with COR, WS are more competitive with Berserk and I still WS almost ever few seconds with 60% TP return and like 7/tick regain

And thus they are nerfing save TP. We might have to actually (gasp!) melee for TP again!!!!

Sucks because /WAR was netting me almost 2k more damage per WS than /SAM. Looks like I won't be seeing this anymore: http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg826...jpg&res=medium

While zerk is always hawt, its not taking a 1k WS and making it a 3700 WS. /war isnt adding 2k avg to your WS on a 3700. Eyeballing is bad yo. Its not quite THAT good xD

I think with all these positive notes and remarks on how awesome this WS is, knowing SE, they will announce "barance adjustment" soon to make it more relatable to other WS and to make sure that DRG is back to the unwanted spot. I am hoping that I am totally wrong and they will leave this alone. Its great to see that one of the new WS is actually working as intended.

Meh on Tier 5's I'm averaging 2k Stardivers with /WAR, with /SAM I'm usually doing around 1400ish. WS frequency is more or less the same with miser's roll and new jump timers with OAT lance.

While 3690 on Kaggen is most likely a double atk and odd stacking up for an abnormally high total, there's no denying that /war is a better choice spike number-wise in VW. It's not just zerk but war cry and aggressor as well. I've still got plenty I can improve in my stardiver build but when I started going /war 2k+ became the norm very quickly with highs approaching 3k (for me) and the rare low in the 1k's in the case of an occasional bad miss (when under nasty stat reduction for example).

In a situation like VW where TP is overflowing from temp items /war really shines. Especially when the average fight lasts only 5 mins anyway.

A really rough kalasutraux fight may be another matter though, those fights tend to go a bit longer with less frequent triggers. /sam might still work out better there. I may have just been with unlucky groups though, trigger-wise.

Also don't forget that attack becomes vastly more valuable the more level correction you have to deal with.

600 att vs EM mob with 500 def, add Berserk. cRatio goes from 1.2 to 1.5, a 25% increase.
600 att vs Lvl120 mob with 500 def, add Berserk. cRatio goes from 0.15 to 0.45, a 200% increase (triples damage).

So yes, it's entirely conceivable that you could double your average damage due to Berserk. It's more likely to be around a 50% increase, though.

Nice Windower.

To double your damage, it would have to be so high that it floors your Pdif at those abyssmal levels. If thats happening, you just need to bring more chaos/min/angon/dia and remember to use your stalwarts :P Technically possible, but thats not whats happening here else his non zerk WS would be like 300. The chances of having a low def mob (has to be close to your base atk pre-zerk) AND is also so high level that lv correction shoots you through the floor is pretty much non-existant. Mobs that high will have more def so it would be difficult for % based atk buff like zerk to have quite the pronounced effect in your most extreme example xD

But either way, zerk is good. Once we get save TP nerf, /sam will at least have to be looked at again. I love my zerk more than you know since i spam drakes with ryu and its shitty -atk property. I dun wanna give it up either :P

God I hate coming DRG to Kalasutrax and Uptala because those Naraka mobs are skeleton types with -50% to piercing, my average stardiver on them ranges anywhere from 20(yes 20)- to like 600. Ugh. DRG really needs an attack boost from some main job abilities. DRK and WAR benefit so well from /SAM because Hasso/Meditate/Store TP compliment Berserk,Double Attack,Last Resort, Soul Eater and Attack Bonuses so well. We still get those benefit from /SAM but WAR and DRK can get 900+ attack with LR or Berserk. Besides WAR and DRK the other 2 hander jobs are DRG and SAM. Of course SAM gets full benefit of their own abilities and 99% of SAMs sub WAR so they benefit fully from Berserk, DA, Aggressor etc which compliments their Hassozanshin double attack etc. The only 2hand job with weak attack power is DRG unless we sub WAR but subbing WAR means we lose: Third Eye for defense, store TP for a 5 hit/6 hit build, meditate, sekkanoki and Hasso.

They've added a lot to DRG in the past few months but all of those were beating around the bush of DRG's #1 weakness of having low attack power. WARs are boasting 3k-4k Ukkos Fury in VW after the Ukko Nerf and DRKs can spam 3k Resolutions every 2 seconds and can reach haste cap without 2hr, DRG damage is still good but we'll probably never be able to compete with MNK/RNG/WAR/DRK/SAM ever again. Because they've boosting Healing Breaths so high now and we can remove debuffs with /Mage, they can justify that DRG has become a hybrid-like support DD like THF/NIN/DNC/BLU due to our support abilities and giving us higher attack power would be 'unbalancing'.

Dragoons can compete with war/sam/drk/mnk etc. easy. Stardiver is an amazing weaponskill also, I average 3k easy with food. highest is 4600+ on ADL. Yes it blows we have to /war for higher spike damage but don't be so quick to say Drg will never be up there as far as damage. Another thing people seem to forget is Drg has an amazing weaponskill frequency naturally with a 5/6 hit build and it gets even better with /sam if you time your meditate/melee/jumps correctly. Yes a Drg main job attack boost job ability would be great, do we 100% need it, no. What we need is either the wyvern being there or not affecting TP gain on soul/spirit jump removed or a better way to keep the dang thing alive.

Saying you average 3k is very nice, but you arent really defining where you are using it, Stardiver is great for trash mobs where you don't need attack, abyssea, dyna farming, old VW tiers, its great there, in fact DRG is amazing for all these places right now. ADL is rather pitiful defense wise because its a level 90 monster, my BLU the other night was cracking out 3k+ WS's on him without really trying, he's a hard mob because of the way he splits into other mob, and the few horrid TP moves he has.

DRG falls behind severly if you take them to the highest tier VW mobs, especially Ig Alima, Botulus, or Kala. Because the job is severly lacking in attack over the other "top tier" DD's.

Also you really shouldnt have troubles keeping the wyvern alive now compared to before, 50% damage reduction, shortened spirit link timer, steady wing, soon to be regen on top of spirit link.

Quote:

---

Because they've boosting Healing Breaths so high now and we can remove debuffs with /Mage, they can justify that DRG has become a hybrid-like support DD like THF/NIN/DNC/BLU due to our support abilities and giving us higher attack power would be 'unbalancing'.

---

This is exactly what I think SE is planning to do with DRG. Since 75 we've slowly been given a lot more utility, and I suppose its to differ jobs like DRK / DRG / SAM etc seeing as at 75 their roles were identical, its not the direction I really want to see DRG go, but I can understand why they are doing it.

Edit: The original post i was trying to quote got edited and toned down so this response probably seems a little excessive, but oh well :P


I dont know what your smoking. I am a stronger DD relative to other jobs today than i EVER was at 75. No DD buffs? Did you miss the part where we:
*Got jumps that give 2-3x TP
*save TP
*Acc bonus 3
*atk bonus 2
*those new sexy jumps got their timers cut down by a third
*our 2hour gives JA haste instead of lolmagic?
*Our GEAR options are phenominal these days since we are seated in the 'heavy armor' class instead of leather/mail and crap. Empy armor is super competative with "heavy DDs" like war's armor.

Yeah we sure are the same ol' lolDrg from 75.....except now we crap TP faster on par with samurais, have a new WS with no atk penalty (instead of a -20% drakes), wyverns that are becoming nigh-invincible (especially after the 33/tic regen with same duration as spirit link).

Im not here to say we destroy all the DDs or anything delusional, but to act as though were as bad off as we were at 75 when all we had to wear was homam, heca and penta thrust is rediculous. Sure we could still get more toys and atk buffs, but dont act like we havent gotten ANYTHING. Drg is way up from where it used to be. We get TP at a phenominal rate now, we have a strong, no-atk penalty WS, and our gear options are up with the best. Dont just ignore what we HAVE gotten to fuel emo rage.

DRG rage aside, I feel like with the reduced jump timers I need /sam less than ever in VW. As far is building TP just jumps now are on par with jumps+meditate(pre-update) on a per fight basis. It's also possible to 5-hit /war now with all the new stp gear. (though it's debatable whether 5 hit is worth it due too all the other sources TP comes from in VW via rolls and temps). Defensive benefits of /sam are moot, too, in favor of temps.

Point being, even after the save TP nerf I think "another look" at /sam is still gonna see /war come out on top with ws frequency not suffering that much.