One million limit points for a sidegrade? What is the Dev Team's logic behind this?

Pushing 270k per hour in a A- ulegurand party. 100 merits is nothing.

fully upgrade my Gkatana Ws Already ._. wasn't too bad

Still got 5/5 in altep in less then 4 hours.

100 merits is like 2 hours of xp. Not even hard.

5/5 exenterator didn't seem all that either. Maybe I need more agi gear, but seemed barely better vs evisc when I was using it in dyna farming EP last night.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

So lets discuss which WSs need fixed, heres a list I put together in a hurry

Great:
Tachi: Shoha

Good:
Blade: Shun
Exenterator
Resolution
Shattersoul
Last Stand

Worthless Crap:
Upheaval
Entropy
Realrazer
Ruinator
Apex Arrow
Requiescat
Stardiver
Shijin Spiral

Let me know if I'm wrong on any of these, but based on what I gathered its the WSs in the last section that SE needs to fix

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Last Stand should be in "great" as it's currently the best Marskmanship WS for RNG and outside Abyssea it is the best ranged WS period (both hits on Last Stand are fTP 2~2.25 and both hits are affected by gorget + belt and together add .4 to fTP). Apex Arrow is also good because it's damage is basically the same as Sidewinder but without the ACC penalty and it's better against high level mobs because it ignores defense. Stardiver belongs in "good" because it doesn't have the Attack penalty that Penta Thust and Drakesbane have it better on high level targets.

You have to be trolling about Shijin Spiral, it's almost as good as Victory Smite outside Abyssea. Even inside Abyssea it's still the best H2H WS if you don't have VS.

Upheaval is the best non emp/relic Great Axe WS outside Abyssea.

After the adjustment Resolution is extremely good.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

You're asking the wrong person to provide any proof, lol.

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I could photoshop anything so "proof" is meaningless. You'll see I'm right soon enough anyway.

For Cor, id assume wildfire is still better as long as the mob doesnt have mdt or high mdb.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

For Cor, id assume wildfire is still better as long as the mob doesnt have mdt or high mdb.

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Wildfire can out damage Last stand inside Abyssea but you have to gimp all other aspects of your damage by equipping MAB INT and +fire damage atmas to achieve this. Outside Abyssea it's hard to see Wildfire doing more damage than Last Stand unless you're wearing a full MAB/INT set subbing BLM and using MAB rolls. Might make sense for COR but for RNG Last Stand is definitely the better WS.

From now on I see Archery getting pushed aside except for fights with high level mobs where you have to stand far back. The combination of Apex Arrow's ignore DEF and archery having a longer distance sweet spot will make it suited to these fights. For everything else Moros Crossbow + darkling bolts or dark adaman bolts (for things that resist darkness proc) is going to be RNG's highest damage weapon.

If you are putting on INT gear for Wildfire, you are doing something very wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

If you are putting on INT gear for Wildfire, you are doing something very wrong.

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For some reason I had it in my head that INT affected magic WS but you are correct.

So if thats the case, you really wouldnt know if wildfire or last stand is better for cor.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

So if thats the case, you really wouldnt know if wildfire or last stand is better for cor.

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I only said it was better for RNG.

OK so the last LB10 is at least fairly challenging without the right strategy (although just spam Olde Rarab Tails seems to work very well). I've therefore changed my stance on these WSs. I don't know how good they are, but they should be far better than the standard ones because they're not as easy to get as I originally thought.

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Originally Posted by macross

100 merits is like 2 hours of xp. Not even hard.

5/5 exenterator didn't seem all that either. Maybe I need more agi gear, but seemed barely better vs evisc when I was using it in dyna farming EP last night.

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I know, but they said 10 hours and when I said 2-4 they said I was exaggerating, making up the numbers. lol

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Right, go play solo in an "MMO".

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Like Nynja pointed it out BST says Hi.

And yes solo in a MMO is not crazy. this is not the only MMO i play but it is the only one where most of the community thinks that when they kill a hard boss they actually believe they soloed it by themselves or something.

I found finding a group and explaining the tactics to sometimes inexperienced players is just like a handicap and it holds me back a lot when it happens so if i had the option to go at it alone the reward would be much more satisfying and in my opinion a hundred times more earned.

And if you think killing a NM with a group and getting the tittle is some sort of achievement try playing a game where you have to kill all NM in the game to even start building a tittle to wear around towns then turn on Hard Mode and Vanquish entire maps to start maxing out the tittle.

Saying "want a challenge? go play solo" doesnt really fix anything though. Nor is it constructive at all. The game was built around community and taking out the team work aspect of the game, kinda gets rid of what the game was suppose to be about.

Nope go play solo, its actually pretty fun and much more rewarding(ego-wise) you just think i am
being a D about it and saying it in a angry context.

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

Nope go play solo, its actually pretty fun and much more rewarding(ego-wise) you just think i am
being a D about it and saying it in a angry context.

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solo is incredibly boring and provides me with absolutely no sense of accomplishment, if I'm going to play by myself I'll drown another hundred hours into skyrim

Has anyone considered that the level cap is now 99 and you will soon be complaining that you have no reason to exp or merit and have nothing to spend merits on. You don't need to complain if you can't have everything the day the update comes out. Also, 10 merits an hour is not far fetched at all, and you will be 99 so you're stronger. Weaponskill power I can't comment on yet though.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

solo is incredibly boring and provides me with absolutely no sense of accomplishment, if I'm going to play by myself I'll drown another hundred hours into skyrim

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Nothing says accomplishment like getting 1-2 hits on mob being beat on by a bunch a DDs before it dies and then doing it for hours and hours ad nauseum. Or going afk while people kill mobs for you. Or waiting around while a mob gets proced and then gang rushing it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Pushing 270k per hour in a A- ulegurand party. 100 merits is nothing.

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ya but you have to zone out and go from 600 xp per kill back down to 100 and rebuild, so take that into consideration.

Cooperation in itself is an accomplishment; this is why you get a greater sense of accomplishment by teaming up to beat something (that necessitates it).

Although I don't think solo play should be innately discouraged (many people simply like being in an active, changing world, they don't necessarily like working with all the other people in it), I don't think saying "go solo it" is an acceptable solution to grouping problems. There should be plenty of things that can be done solo and plenty of things that can be done in a standard group. They need to cut back on stuff that is difficult without an alliance, as alliances tend to be more frustrating as you're depending on a larger number of people to not mess up, and that's assuming you can gather that many in the first place.

I would of prefered the WS cost 10x as much if they were the new standard 99 ws, as it is most aren't worth the time you do put in anyway.

Maybe they will listen to the rage and add higher upgrades (I doubt it though) balance and shit.

What I find BS is half of them are not even worth it at 5/5. With how fast we get exp now you would also thing it would be a good idea to let us merit all of them, not much of a added time sink but its still a time sink.

inb4: this is a mmo. they want you to play it long time.

Um, weren't people just complaining about having nothing to waste all of their wasted merit points on before the update? Shouldn't we be thanking the devs for a huge merit sink so we can keep playing in Abyssea without feeling like we're wasting our time in there?

If the weapon skills are that bad, you don't have to waste the time trying to get them. Be happy with the stronger innate weapon skills and move on...

This forum confuses me.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Um, weren't people just complaining about having nothing to waste all of their wasted merit points on before the update? Shouldn't we be thanking the devs for a huge merit sink so we can keep playing in Abyssea without feeling like we're wasting our time in there?

If the weapon skills are that bad, you don't have to waste the time trying to get them. Be happy with the stronger innate weapon skills and move on...

This forum confuses me.

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I don't recall anyone saying they wanted to waste merits on crap. We could already delete and re add merits to our hearts content. People wanted the merits to actually do something.

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Originally Posted by Corres

inb4: this is a mmo. they want you to play it long time.

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You failed to see THAT was my point. Why limit it to just being able to cap just 3 when allowing you to cap them all would end up with you playing longer I.E a time sink but no they said you can only cap 3 out 5/5. The only logic that only letting you cap 3 out would be so you removed the merits to cap out another weapon but when half are crap and the other half are between ok and good its not hard to pick 3 and never look back. If they were all between ok and good I could see it but lets be real.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Be sure to thank the nearest Empyrean weapon owner who screamed bloody murder when these weapon skills were tested out initially.

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Like who? And where?

I mean, it's so recent, I'm sure you can find these Empyrean weapon holders crying foul pretty easily.

But you won't, because this is just another typical Hayward hatin' post. You so mad, bro.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Um, weren't people just complaining about having nothing to waste all of their wasted merit points on before the update? Shouldn't we be thanking the devs for a huge merit sink so we can keep playing in Abyssea without feeling like we're wasting our time in there?

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You could also go in another direction with this line of thought.

People would be happier than a homeless man in a heated public restroom if all of the merit weaponskills had the same utility as Tachi: Shoha and cost five or ten million limit points to cap.

As it is, putting merits in some of the under-performing weaponskills is pretty much the same as switching merits around for Voidwatch procs. Just a function of being at capped merits in a time when merits come easily. That's no change.

I don't understand why people keep repeating that all the new WS suck when that is in fact only true for 4 of them.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I don't understand why people keep repeating that all the new WS suck when that is in fact only true for 4 of them.

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Most are either bad, or can be slightly better. Only about 3 or 4 are really that great. Others are situational and outdone by empy ws due to ODD.

1,000,000 limit points took me all of 4.5 hours to get for it. Why the complaints? When you can exp at 300-375k exp per hour in abyssea, a million isn't that hard to get.

I finished Last Stand and Shoha the day the update went live. The fact that near every good Empyrean/Relic on the server was out exp'ing certainly helped. I was rocking 500k/hr+ for most of the time.

The amount of merits pales in comparison to the fact that most of the WS's 5/5'd are either downgrades to whats readily available or sidegrades.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

Open question: Does anyone actually enjoy this game? You people sure do complain a lot.

Capping ability upgrades for one stat back in the old days was 45 merit points, when getting 20,000 an hour was extraordinary. Now you get 4 to 5 times that much, and this 100 merit points is a smidge over half that. Heck, I did Bostaneiux Oubliette book burn a few days ago and was getting like 95k an hour, and that was average. Capping one new weapon skill is something you can do in an afternoon.

Maybe that's the dev team's logic; that something that doesn't take all that much effort to get shouldn't be all that great.

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Actually, yes I do still enjoy the game, much more so since i can spend time with friends that i've made over the years ive been playing.

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Originally Posted by Caria

1,000,000 limit points took me all of 4.5 hours to get for it. Why the complaints? When you can exp at 300-375k exp per hour in abyssea, a million isn't that hard to get.

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Don't lie.

The issue is you can only hold 30 merits at once. And each upgrade consumes an amount of merits that makes it impossible to deplete your tank.

10 -> 15 -> 20 -> 25 -> 30

After the first two upgrades you'd be running back out and resetting your monster count and gold light. Then each upgrade would entail you to reset it again along with left over merits that you couldn't really use. Capping STR and HP/MP had my running into this problem.

1 million isn't that hard to get, but it's not something you'll be doing that fast either.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

I'm going to keep this short and to the point.

• With a few exceptions, most of the new "Meritable Weaponskills" are sidegrades to current available weaponskills when merited to 5/5.
• It takes 100 merit points to upgrade one weaponskill to 5/5. That is one million limit points.
• Considering they are weaker than current alternatives if merited to 4/5 or less, it is pointless to merit them any lower than 5/5.

The question I would like the community reps to forward to the Dev Team is pretty straight forward:
Considering the disclaimer displayed before logging into the game, who on the Development Team thought it would be a good idea for players to spend time gathering one million limit points for a weaponskill that is no better than current alternatives, and why?

We have received comments from the development team about their goals for some of the weaponskills. They openly admit that they want them to be side-grades. The question is, how can they justify one million limit points for a sidegrade?

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Finished Ruinator the second day after update, took only 4 merit dumps hardly a difficult thing to do, and for jobs that don't have empyreans weapons like my beast it's good to see a new ws that can beat rampage in dmg and looks.

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Originally Posted by saevel

1 million isn't that hard to get, but it's not something you'll be doing that fast either.

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Then you're doing it wrong, because 4.5 hours is a little on teh long side. You're probably leaving the moment you have 10/15/20/25/30 instead of capping each time. You lose your chain you know.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

I'm going to keep this short and to the point.

The question I would like the community reps to forward to the Dev Team is pretty straight forward:
Considering the disclaimer displayed before logging into the game, who on the Development Team thought it would be a good idea for players to spend time gathering one million limit points for a weaponskill that is no better than current alternatives, and why?

We have received comments from the development team about their goals for some of the weaponskills. They openly admit that they want them to be side-grades. The question is, how can they justify one million limit points for a sidegrade?

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Oh please, you could've made it shorter... we're very busy adventurers. It's about time the FFxi DEV team do something to piss off the NOOBs. If it were me, I'd make it 3mil so you'd quit the game.

Calm down, you could go in a corner and cry alone(unless you have friends to cry with). If I can't make 100 merits after they kindly upgraded 20/20 to 30/30 merits you can hold, maybe I don't deserve WS upgrades... should'nt waste my time with so much other things to do in this MMORPG.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I don't understand why people keep repeating that all the new WS suck when that is in fact only true for 4 of them.

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My problem is with which weaponskills are disappointing. I feel like the Development Bros worked hard to assure average-to-above-average weaponskills for weapons that only had average-to-above-average options thus far, such as Polearm, Scythe, and Axe. When I try to ascertain why, I can only do a Jackie Chan impression.

Why shouldn't every weapon have a Jishnu's Radiance/Ukko's Fury/Victory Smite/Tachi: Shoha level weaponskill attainable through some means, whatever those means are?

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Originally Posted by Psxpert2011

Oh please, you could've made it shorter... we're very busy adventurers. It's about time the FFxi DEV team do something to piss off the NOOBs. If it were me, I'd make it 3mil so you'd quit the game.

Calm down, you could go in a corner and cry alone(unless you have friends to cry with). If I can't make 100 merits after they kindly upgraded 20/20 to 30/30 merits you can hold, maybe I don't deserve WS upgrades... should'nt waste my time with so much other things to do in this MMORPG.

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You have missed the main point of this topic.