Same-Sex Marriages

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F*x N*ws

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I see what you did there. :p

Thing is, who watches, or at least who believes, anything they see on Fox, after they fought for and won the legal right to lie on the air?

More like Faux news, amirite

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Hmmm, Can Galkas not marry at all? I was under the impression they were considered Male. And it doesn't matter, no one cares about the Galkas.

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excuse me ...
... and btw: I am female

Wouldn't you have liked to marry a hume male, Zazhi?

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Can Galkas not marry at all?

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Galka are treated as male for the purpose of weddings. They can marry any females.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Galka are treated as male for the purpose of weddings. They can marry any females.

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Thanks, that was my question. :D

So Galkas are considered Male.

This topic should probably be closed.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

This topic should probably be closed.

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Why is that?

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Originally Posted by hollowsgrief

Really? So is that why in many manga there are gays and lesbians? You are aware of the fact that Japan believes in homosexual love, right? This was put to make sure that their consumers for the game are not offended. This way they make money, without having to deal with unnecessary lawsuits and politics about an MMO where lesbians and gays are in it. Besides, it's an online GAME. Get out into the real world if you want to do something with the same sex. You're fussing over the fact that 1's and 0's can't "legally" get digitally married. And you are aware that Japan is a completely different Country, and has entirely different laws, yes? So you saying "Unconstitutional" is completely irrelevant, the U.S. constitution has absolutely nothing to do with them.

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Most homosexual romances in Japan are consumed by a female audience. It is largely presented as a 'more equal romance' that is desired by women in Japan who feel a great divide in equal rights between men and women in relationships in Japan.
The remaining stories are mostly comedies making fun of homosexuality.

Sure the stories are there, but they are like so many teenagers dating someone from the other side of the tracks... they don't often bring them home to meet mom and dad.
Also, it takes very few people to publish an idea. Depending on the presentation more than the content, Masses will pay lip service to it. Very few will internalize and accept it.

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A game is a game is a game. I wish people would stop pulling out the real life card and actually contribute some worthwhile discussion.

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A game is not just a game any more than a book is just a book or an essay is an essay. The media and ideas you consume or just dwell around shape attitudes, beliefs and choices. It is very naive if this is not understood in online culture. That is why it matters.
Often people live in idealogical microcosms. It could be a small town factory or church. It could be a University. It could be the business executives elite in the downtown metro area. Inside the microcosm it is thought "Well, everyone thinks this way!"
Guess what. Its not true. Sometimes its just the loud ones that no one is arguing with. Sometimes everyone in the microcosm does think the same way... but thats why they are a microcosm. Guess what, every county is a microcosm too. It is surprising to find the beliefs that are held "universally true" (no I"m not refering to religion at all, just life) in once culture and completely opposite from those in another culture.
A mild and safe example that jumps to mind is what I consider a japanese superstition: If you eat too many peanuts, you will get a nosebleed.
Its just a little myth. Plenty of these in any culture, but it surprised me alot while living in Japan. It seemed quite silly to me. However it is quite easily accepted in Japan as a minor medical knowledge.

Same-sex marriage is not about providing freedom for a small group. It is about depriving freedom for a large one.
Individual choices are one thing. Changing laws and policies is quite another. That is when you are imposing will upon others.

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Originally Posted by Xilk

Same-sex marriage is not about providing freedom for a small group. It is about depriving freedom for a large one.
Individual choices are one thing. Changing laws and policies is quite another. That is when you are imposing will upon others.

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How does same sex marriage deprive freedom from anyone? I'm not following this train of thought at all. Making marriage more inclusive does not harm people who are already married, or in the group of people who were alreadyable to get married. No will is imposed upon anyone, because nothing has changed for anyone except gay people.

Let's just ignore the trolling messages and focus on the topic at hand, shall we? This thread has somewhat evolved from the original debate of in-game marriages to the larger real life issue, which is probably what makes everyone all passionate. I'm still of the opinion that the in game marriages aren't important enough to implement, nor are they worth the flack the game would get for them.

Hmmm I'd marrie you if i was single lol

I totally would like same sex marriages in this game. If this was a poll, I'd vote yes.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Thanks, that was my question. :D

So Galkas are considered Male.

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Well, it says in the instruction manual that Galka technically have no gender but are generally treated as male.

It really is just a game. If you're concerned about having "wedding rings", level goldsmithing up to 28+ and make Silver Rings for one another with your signed names on them.

I'm a male, I play a boy taru. My girlfriend plays a boy taru too. I'm not offended that I can't marry her in game (although it does suck that some events we can't do together, like Valentine's day). It's just a game. I'm much more happy that I can be with her in real life and hold her at night.

That means much more to me than a pixelated ring.

That said, nobody should get their subligar in a bunch over this, because it is just a game. So what if some male Elvaan is chilling in Port Jeuno with a male name embedded in a ring. Does it really matter? Really? Your whole life is ruined? Your religion has been pooped upon? Said person supposedly needs a psycho-analysis now because their pixelated character is in love with another pixelated character that has the same gender symbol as them?

Okay.

Xilk for president. Please fix amercia.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

It really is just a game. If you're concerned about having "wedding rings", level goldsmithing up to 28+ and make Silver Rings for one another with your signed names on them.

I'm a male, I play a boy taru. My girlfriend plays a boy taru too. I'm not offended that I can't marry her in game (although it does suck that some events we can't do together, like Valentine's day). It's just a game. I'm much more happy that I can be with her in real life and hold her at night.

That means much more to me than a pixelated ring.

That said, nobody should get their subligar in a bunch over this, because it is just a game. So what if some male Elvaan is chilling in Port Jeuno with a male name embedded in a ring. Does it really matter? Really? Your whole life is ruined? Your religion has been pooped upon? Said person supposedly needs a psycho-analysis now because their pixelated character is in love with another pixelated character that has the same gender symbol as them?

Okay.

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its not really about being offended, its more of an annoyance, because there are so many other MMORPGs that offer constricted marriage.

I play as a Mithra myself, and it would be nice, if when I meet the right girl in game, I could marry her.

The marriage system is very, very, rarely used and there are more players in which are heterosexual.

So, if barely the majority of these users are using this feature to begin with. Why is this so necessary?

Also, if you really care about someone I doubt a piece of paper or pixelated images are going to improve that care at all.

If it does, you're a person too involved in material things to know what love is.

-The marriage system is inconsequential. Why bother?
-The marriage system is hardly used. Why bother?
-The very notion of "same sex marriage" is itself foreign and contrary to the very point and concept itself.
-After all the slack that people gave polygamists in the late 1800s, you'd be crazy to think that I wouldn't quit this game if they allowed two people of the same sex to go and get wedding bands-as though it's the number two, and not their sexes, that matters. The fact that they just keep it how it is instead of dragging western modern politics into it is one of my favorite features of FF11.
-I know this has become an international game, but the fact is that Square Enix is primarily based in Japan, and in pretty much all of Asia(except Thailand), the whole concept is a null point anyway.

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If you wanna shout your love for (Asexual, mind you) galka crotch in Port Jeuno, go ahead.

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The last time I did this in Bastok, I learned how "Lame Deer" got his name.

Definitely not the most eloquent way to lay down an argument, but I agree wholeheartedly with the concept. FFXI should allow any two people/characters to marry, regardless of gender. This argument is everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I totally want same sex marriages too ;o

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yus! i cant marry my boyfriend (who is a mithra too) bc of this -.-'
we do wanna marry, so pls!!!

I would support same sex marriage but I'm sorry, sex is never the same after marriage.

you have galka and mithra that presents a problem of trying to have oppsite sex only, that and there is other agurments for doing what the OP has said. that subject I do not want to tuch here.

All am i going to say is i support the OP and hope this can change

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Originally Posted by Meyi

It really is just a game. If you're concerned about having "wedding rings", level goldsmithing up to 28+ and make Silver Rings for one another with your signed names on them.

I'm a male, I play a boy taru. My girlfriend plays a boy taru too. I'm not offended that I can't marry her in game (although it does suck that some events we can't do together, like Valentine's day). It's just a game. I'm much more happy that I can be with her in real life and hold her at night.

That means much more to me than a pixelated ring.

That said, nobody should get their subligar in a bunch over this, because it is just a game. So what if some male Elvaan is chilling in Port Jeuno with a male name embedded in a ring. Does it really matter? Really? Your whole life is ruined? Your religion has been pooped upon? Said person supposedly needs a psycho-analysis now because their pixelated character is in love with another pixelated character that has the same gender symbol as them?

Okay.

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WIN! Ahaha...I must say this entire thread has become so warped and diluted from the original topic at hand. I agree with a bunch of other posters in here, saying that I would love to have gay marriage in game, but I don't think it's going to happen. This topic has been beat around to death since the dawn of marriage in FFXI. Very few people choose to use this service...I've only been to one or two in game weddings since I started in 2004. It's completely irrelevant. Do I think SE would receive extreme backlash by implementing this? Not really. Because FFXI is a dying MMORPG, no matter how many claim how many millions play this game. You don't see noobs in starter cities as much as you used to...SE aren't getting new players daily...and they're doing ANOTHER server merger, which proves that the FFXI population isn't where it used to be. I'm going off on another tangent though. FFXI is just a game, so let people have fun. Leave religion and all the other bullcrap to the side.

In my opinion, you will never truly end this conflict. It just reforms into another conflict. You add in same-sex marriage, you get people complaining about how wrong it is. You don't add it in and you get people complaining about homosexual rights, and it isn't right to be prejudiced. You take away marriage and it will form into a blame game between each side of whose fault it was that it was taken away. As much as I would love to see this conflict go away, I very much doubt it will. Not in our lifetime anyways.

I really wish this conflict would just stay out of game. How many people honestly play this game to hear about real life conflicts and drama? I know I don't. Going off topic and I will most likely start a thread on it. Answer me honestly, Why did any of you start playing this game?

I'll answer first: I joined because I am not only addicted to Final Fantasy games, but b/c I needed an escape from the drama of real life for a short period of time.

The most insightful reply in this thread so far, congratulations!

I support the OP. The opinions I've seen are how this will influence other people, but no matter how you look at it, even if 2 guys should not marry, it does not make them less gay, and I personally dont hide the fact that I am online.
The ceremony only occurs once ingame and most likely only friends who already know the couple is gay, are invited. If your against it, you just dont go to it, your probably not even going to be invited.

Everyone is different.

....really? This is a HUGE issue?

Honestly, the only thing 'lacking' privilege-wise from 'same-sex' marriage in this game anymore is the certificate itself.

GM's don't run the weddings anymore, so everyone's on equal terms ceremony-wise by having your friends perform the ceremonies, the full text for which is now available since ALL WEDDINGS ARE PLAYER-RUN NOW. As for attire, you can have someone show up in dinner hose and the other in a dress/tuxedo if you really wanted. (oh NOES no galkas in dresses.) You can even have the matrimony rings/bands signed for the same gender, just trade the unsigned version (craftable by Goldsmithing) to the person handing it over to the other so they can take a tornado crystal and sign the thing like the Castor/Pollux rings. I have seen this done before, it works.

I really don't see why this NEEDS to be a giant issue in a FANTASY game. An 'official' marriage in the game ONLY gets you a paper to put on the wall, and NOTHING else that can't be obtained otherwise. I can see why you'd complain about the certificate, but I can't see why you're complaining about not having things that are already available to you.

If it's no big deal then why not just change it? It's not like it's hard to remove a boolean variable check from source code.

uh... I think you missed my point....

tl;dr version of my previous post:

MARRIAGE (ceremony/rings/gear) for any race/gender combination is already available in the game.

CERTIFICATES for same-sex is the only thing that is not available.

Yeah, but it's a relatively simple thing to fix, so why not do it?

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Originally Posted by Melodicya

Hello Everyone!

Whatever your personal opinions on Same-Sex marriage, both sides can agree that it is a controversial topic world-wide. Because of its controversial nature, Same-Gender marriages are not currently available in Vana'diel in order to ensure the game is rated "T" (or its equivalent) worldwide.

We do appreciate to continue hearing your feedback on this, as policies are ever evolving and do change, and I'd like to add I personally do appreciate everyone that has particpated in this debate without flaming or being offensive, since it can be a very volatile subject. I do hope we can keep the conversation going if possible.

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^ this. I think you missed it. (thanks ESRB! >.>; )

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Originally Posted by Melodicya

Hello Everyone!

Whatever your personal opinions on Same-Sex marriage, both sides can agree that it is a controversial topic world-wide. Because of its controversial nature, Same-Gender marriages are not currently available in Vana'diel in order to ensure the game is rated "T" (or its equivalent) worldwide.

We do appreciate to continue hearing your feedback on this, as policies are ever evolving and do change, and I'd like to add I personally do appreciate everyone that has particpated in this debate without flaming or being offensive, since it can be a very volatile subject. I do hope we can keep the conversation going if possible.

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So.. can someone explain why a girl and a boy getting married gives a different rating then a girl girl or guy guy? seems like the rating system is unfair if that is the case and opens up a new diserbing issue if you ask me

Cat on cat and there isn't full support for this? I am disappoint.

At this point, it's really not anything you can argue with from SE, you'd have to go take it up with the ESRB. Have fun with that...

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Originally Posted by Rosalie

At this point, it's really not anything you can argue with from SE, you'd have to go take it up with the ESRB. Have fun with that...

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Well that's pretty stupid, but a better reasoning than straight up homophobia(although really it's just indirect homophobia, but still...).

I read the first seven pages of this argument before I became discouraged to read the same silly arguments that people have been proposing for decades, even centuries. These are arguments that modern day academia has poked way too many holes in to stand up anymore. Even when homophobia passed proposition 8, it failed. No same-sex marriage in FFXI IS homophobia. I will accept the argument that it is irrelevant to game play, but this still makes it homophobia. Arguing against sexual orientation rights is like arguing against women's or racial rights a few decades ago. You're going to start feeling really stupid really fast.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

I think in game weddings should allow two player characters of the same sex to marry. I would like to think SE has gotten a little more progressive as a company when they decided to include two lesbians in Final Fantasy XIII and it would certainly garner some attention to finally break these boundaries. After all, MMOs are about the freedom to explore, why does SE want to cockblock me when I want to explore another guy's crotch. It's unfair. It's unjust. It's unconstitutional. There's nothing wrong if two Galkas or two Mithras want to share their love, but this is coming from a company that feels that a Male Goblin and a Female Hume (What a slut btw) getting it on is more socially acceptable.

So I plead to you, SE. Please remove this unnecessary restriction and let the love flow through you.

P.S. Anyone want to marry me? :D

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[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] Let me explain something to you Alkaline, the boundaries of homosexuality was broken back in the B.C., and Final Fantasy 11 is not a good place to explore other men's crotches. Go take a cold shower or watch some gay porn. It's not like the internet doesn't have enough places for you to find men interested in sex, so please - spare me the gay discrimination B.S. You are probably the most well represented minority in the history of mankind.

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Originally Posted by Kabel

I read the first seven pages of this argument before I became discouraged to read the same silly arguments that people have been proposing for decades, even centuries. These are arguments that modern day academia has poked way too many holes in to stand up anymore. Even when homophobia passed proposition 8, it failed. No same-sex marriage in FFXI IS homophobia. I will accept the argument that it is irrelevant to game play, but this still makes it homophobia. Arguing against sexual orientation rights is like arguing against women's or racial rights a few decades ago. You're going to start feeling really stupid really fast.

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...so I guess that means you missed the part where I was explaining just how to perform such ceremonies and obtain all the gear?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against it or for it or any which way. I'm just saying that most of the arguments I had seen here were directed at the wrong parties and for the wrong reasons.

Saying you can't have a same-sex marriage in FFXI is just incorrect. Saying you can't get a marriage certificate for a same-sex marriage is correct, and more worth arguing about.