Level 99 - Trial of the Citadel

99 or 100, makes no difference at all. They will nerf subbed things that cause issues anyway.

As for 1 job at 100, people will hate that idea.. Look at merits now, they already kinda do that and everyone wants them to increase the amount of combat/magic merits more and more.

I'd vote for 100. Obviously, this would require them to edit the graphical display of people's jobs through searching/linkshell listings, as there's only room for two-digit numbers as things are.

[Edit]

99 may feel like a tradition, but who cares? Quite a few FF-based games have had level 100 as a cap, they just weren't as frequent as level 99 caps.

@ RDM
Level 80 cap was the biggest slap to Red Mages in general (as I had hoped they would adjust Convert's potency subbed, however, I didn't really care in the end - jobs I normally /RDM'd on at 75 I still do at 95, it didn't make me sub it on White Mage for example). Composure is hardly 'game-breaking' compared to Convert. Most people'd just activate it, cast the spells they want, and cancel it - I did the same on RDM until AF3+2 came into the picture. I do think if Composure remained level 50 after such an update that its effectiveness should be adjusted subbed to the point where it would remain more useful on RDM main regardless of AF3+2 possession.

I think the prime reason they left Convert without an adjustment is that /RDM on its own doesn't have any other way to help manage MP besides that + Refresh. Refresh alone would not be worth subbing RDM for (compared to stuff like SCH sub). Aka: They wanted to encourage the support job option.

@ SCH
I won't lie here... part of the reason why I'd vote 100 is to gain a 3rd stratagem charge /SCH. I've always been a pro-/SCH player (especially on WHM even now), and it'd be a welcomed change for those subbing it.

I'm all for 100/50 myself, just because it's a nice even set of numbers and looks nicer. That and it's not the first time they've done it. Or 255. Ya know, because it can apparently or some shit.

As for the "WAAAAH having SJ stuff at 50 will unbalance the game QQ" crowd, lvl 75 -> 80 says hi.

Would like level 100; mainly for the 1 extra level correction & extra skill level increases. Would give more defense & attack power regardless of what our sub jobs will get for level 50.

100. More sub job benefits/options is never a bad thing.

I'd say 100/50. Looks a lot nicer than 99/49. 100 seems more complete or something. I don't know, I just like even numbers.

@ OP: I can get behind the idea somewhat, but I think a simpler route would be to just allow the job to gain access to new abilities and spells after completing the citadel. Because two of the problems we run into with the class changes is Thief which changed to Ninja and Fighter(Warrior) into Knight(Paladin) in FF1, and just seems like it would open up an unnecessary can of problems to deal with where the advanced class already exists and has it's own set of spells.

But to add onto your idea, each job that completes the Citadel gains access to a new Job Trait (can be a different trait for each job, or make you pick and chose one from a list that will work for all jobs like Divine Might Earrings). Some examples of the traits could be.

PLD: Stalwart Devotion- Grants a defense and magic defense bonus to the player and all defensive job abilities/magic spells cast on them.
DRK: Raging Bloodlust- Grants a Attack Bonus to the player and all Attack boosting JA/spells.
WAR: Crippling Blow- Occasionally lower a enemies defense when landing a critical hit.
WHM: Healer's Devotion- Single target cure spells are granted an additional healing bonus.
BLM: Lost Magicks- Damaging spells will occasionally gain a very powerful boost when cast.
SCH: Wisdom of the Sage- Lowers the overall cost of spells.
RDM: Lore of the Field- Gives an elemental affinity bonus depending on the day/weather/enspells used while engaged in combat.
BST: Tamer's Trade: Increased bond with the pets makes them more willing to give their lives for you increasing enmity generation for the pet.

But that's just a few ideas I had on the top of my head.

Far as pick or choosing 99 and 100, I'm kind of mixed about it. On one hand it opens a world of possibilities for subjobs, but at the same time many jobs stop gaining good abilities at 50 taking away whatever benefits they had over other jobs away.

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Originally Posted by Fredjan

I do think if Composure remained level 50 after such an update that its effectiveness should be adjusted subbed to the point where it would remain more useful on RDM main regardless of AF3+2 possession.

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Would you rather see them have /RDM Composure give double duration but the same recast increase, or the same (tripled) duration but more of a recast increase?

(I'm asking mostly because I highly doubt they'd both reduce duration and increase recast further, based on how Accession/Manifestation ended up from /SCH.)

Can't believe people can't see how granting composure at Sub-Job level would completely kill RDM, RDM's AF3 Armour wouldn't stop that.

No one is saying RDM sub is gonna get composure. There are a ton of jobs that have job abilities restricted. Why are you all still hanging on that?

It's preference of level: 99 or 100. Get it straight. It's not about what makes RDM and what doesn't. If all that makes RDM is composure then RDM isn't crap and should simply be deleted off the game. Stop crying about it and stick to the subject of 99 or 100. It's not about balancing, the people who get PAID TO BALANCE WILL DO THEIR JOB. SIMPLE. This is not a RDM forum post on the topic of DO WE WANT TO SHARE COMPOSURE OR NOT.

Simple. Simple. Simple. 100!

/blm MAB 3 Om nom nom!

Lv 100.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Can't believe people can't see how granting composure at Sub-Job level would completely kill RDM, RDM's AF3 Armour wouldn't stop that.

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I'm not seeing it, to be honest. Okay, so anyone /RDM could Haste, Refresh, Stoneskin, and Phalanx themselves for triple duration. From what I've seen trying to Accession spells off myself, others will still wear off normally. Others also won't have the +2 set to nearly double durations. Admittedly, I'm curious what would happen with SCHs using Perpetuance (additive or multiplicative?), but they'd still want to be using Sublimation over Refresh since its buff. Otherwise, I doubt the ACC bonus would revolutionize the gameplay of BLMs, SCHs, SMNs, or WHMs. Ya know, rabid community perception of mage melee 'n all.

Part of me is glad Refresh and Convert weren't nerfed in any way as a sub. I always felt them over-hyped and one of the continually used excuses to not give RDM any attention over the years. Others gaining access to it killed that monopoly and finally allowed people to start looking more toward the issues the job had and still does. You'll find plenty of disagreement on what should and shouldn't be addressed, sure, but the job should be a hell of a lot more than an MP battery.

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Originally Posted by Seha

/blm MAB 3 Om nom nom!

Lv 100.

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Don't forget Elemental Celerity which unlike JA's traits are never blocked.

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol. And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol. And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

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Erm.. people that like the job would care, not everyone goes BAA!!!!

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Originally Posted by Winrie

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol.

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Trying to make one problem worse isn't exactly the best thing to advertise, the main problem with RDM is most everything we have to our name was/is under 50. While most jobs got progressively more new JA, Spells, Traits as levels went up RDM for the most part had stopped growing or fell far behind in those areas. Taking the last thing they really have that differentiates them from other jobs in a group setting is just putting another nail in the coffin, but what do other jobs care about jobs they don't play as long as it benefits them right? I'm sure the WHM community wouldn't nerdrage if heaven forbid they ever got Cure V and things changed back to the days of the little pink bird parties.

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Originally Posted by Winrie

And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

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The whole point of hitting 100 would be because of those JA/traits/spells gained from the level 50 SJ, otherwise there's really no point to this discussion.

Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content.

They'll never have Esuna, Aflatus Solace, Aflatus Misery, Divine Seal Na-spell-ga, Yagrush, Null Damage Bar Spells, Repose, Cure VI, Curaga V Curaga IV. All of which make WHM a prime healer.

Will they ever get Cure V? More than likely, will it be soon? Maybe.

Level 100 offers a lot more than 3-4 Abilities people may or may not use. In the end, even if 1 or 2 classes decided to sub RDM for Composure so what? It doesn't mean anything at all. Level 100 means more combat, and offensive combat skill points, more stats, more hp, more mp, more level correction bonus, potentially ROLE DEFINING JOB TRAITS AND ABILITIES that would seem REAL official at 100. The introduction of the new merit system. I mean, none of this kills a job.

It's a baseless discussion, and people here crying wolf. RDM has a huge value in the situations it's applicable in. It's a great back-up support job. It can enfeeble, cure, deal damage, and buff. As a whole, RDM is insanely powerful.

Again, it's just a preference of 99 vs 100. It's not about worrying about balancing, how can you balance an unfinished product? You can't.

WHM was superior back at 75 too, but that didn't stop WHM's from having their job literally overhauled in order to take back their spot as main healer from RDM. Of course RDM had several things going for them back then that no one else had, Refresh, Convert, Cure III/IV could heal a respectable amount of hp, solid enfeebles, and I suppose you could count Composure for increased buff duration since it came in shortly before the cap rise.

However, as the levels rose RDM stopped getting party support spells and cures, Enfeebles were severely hindered in new content due to immunity and flat resistance rates (Yes Enfeebling is stupidly broken atm), and what support we were used for at 75 fell into other jobs laps from subbing RDM. So essentially everything that was defining RDM fell behind or was given to everyone else, anything new that we've received has mostly been self buffs which does not do much for a group except our melee ability (which many are vehemently against though SE seems content on going in that direction).

I can't really agree with this. RDM has always had it's place 75 and above. RDM was the original solo job if you took it to those lengths.

To this date, what has RDM gained? The ability to further enfeeble and destroy a monster with devastating magic such as T4. There really is not reason why a RDM shouldn't have a place in group oriented event. It still plays it's roles, and is respected in them. If your linkshell and or the player base you associate with feel that RDM isn't a requirement or a needed instrument in their strategy then that's simply choice and custom strategy.

WHM was always great. It simply obtained greater abilities which emphasized it's role as a healer. RDM is a multi-role job, always has been always will be. Which is why the devs can even justify crap like Temper and En-Spells II. Simple.

The only enfeebles that were removed were enfeebles such as Gravity and things that could contribute to 3 hour fights even being possible. This was a smart and tactical move, no one enjoyed walking up to ANYWHERE that was reputable for gear/drops and have to wait 3 hours for the kill, simply to get a TOD. The hindering of those abilities wasn't just RDM directed. Plenty of other jobs suffered too. BLM, BLU, SCH.

End result is, RDM has it's practicality and usefulness. Which will be greatly emphasized in the future. No reason to harp on "But we won't be unique or as cool anymore" pointless, and baseless.

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Originally Posted by Amador

Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content.

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Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content while subbing Scholar for Light Arts.

No serious White Mage subs Red Mage.

Sub Scholar means B+ Enhancing, cheaper spells, stratagems, and faster recasts.

If you need massive amounts of MP, guess what? Light Arts plus a Refresh source will trump Convert. And I don't mean Refresh I, because Sublimation matches that. If Refresh sources from gear don't provide enough of a kick, you remember this is a MMO, and invite someone else to your party to augment this. I wonder what job is a great way to lessen MP strain on the White Mage while providing more MP to the White Mage?

There is no reason why White Mage being able to sub for Composure would obsolete Red Mage, just as there is no reason a White Mage would sub Red Mage in a party position on "hard" content, aside from not having Scholar leveled.

If I was a Red Mage worried about being obsoleted by White Mage, I'd worry way more about a White Mage getting more stratagems from sub Scholar then Composure from sub Red Mage as the result of a 100/50 cap. Shoot, I'd be more worried about Convert, but even that is a joke compared to sub Scholar.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

If you need massive amounts of MP, guess what? Light Arts plus a Refresh source will trump Convert.

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Obvious exception: when you need massive amounts of MP for individual, short fights, but you'll have at least ten minutes between those fights. (Though if you're somehow burning through ~2.5k MP in under two minutes, your problem is probably the people you're doing things with.)

There's no doubt that Red Mage could use some more abilities to flesh out it's party role. However healing probably shouldn't be the focus of those adjustments. I think some modest all around buffs to melee, offensive spells, and party buffs could go a long ways. They could use some unique spells and traits as well. magic/melee crit chance based on int/mnd or something along those lines. Possibly a nuke that strikes with every element. or a trait that grants up to 25 tp for each enfeeble landed. trait that doubles spike damage and effect on shield block.

this isn't how to make rdm stronger. vote 99 or 100 or gtfo.

100.

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Originally Posted by Amador

this isn't how to make rdm stronger. vote 99 or 100 or gtfo.

100.

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Like it has the authority to tell anyone to do so? Since when were you made a moderator? Oh, you wasn't! Okay, then how about you GTFO, Thank you very much!

It puts the lotion on it's skin? What? Didn't Clarice kill you already?

Daniel, pot kettle black. Topic is vote lvl 99 or 100 not rdm or job adjustments, so don't tell someone to gtfo for following camate's question, now thank you very much~

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Like it has the authority to tell anyone to do so? Since when were you made a moderator? Oh, you wasn't! Okay, then how about you GTFO, Thank you very much!

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A moderator has already told you this. To quote them:
•Please keep all posts on topic. Making off topic posts will only cause confusion and miscommunication. When you create a new thread, please do not mix multiple unrelated topics into a single thread. Instead, please create an individual thread based on each topic.

It is the very first rule of these forum. The authority has spoken. Stfu.

Yawn! I already voted anyway. 100 if they block Composure, 99 if they don't.

Querying is exactly in the rules of this topic and forum in fact, I'm not going to just vote blindly like some people. If they wanted only an answer of Yes or No they'd have done a poll like the "What platform do you play on."

I only copied him in saying GTFO, since that in itself adds nothing.

100.

Most of the reasons for my choice have already been mentioned:
* Level increases of 5
* Level 100 unlocks lvl 50 subjob opportunities
* 99 cap is not a rule written in stone, and has been 'broken' before if not outright ignored.
* Interface limitations are not an issue. 5 new jobs could be added, adding another digit or a creative solution (** or M) shouldn't a problem either.

Another I'd like to add:
* FFXI crafting skills are capped at level 100.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

Interface limitations are not an issue. 5 new jobs could be added, adding another digit or a creative solution (** or M) shouldn't a problem either.

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I think the interface limitation thing has more to do with the seacom interface, whereas adding five new jobs would have more to do with the PS2 hard drive space issues. The interface limitation thing would be a lot easier to solve either way. Anyways, this is not what I wanted to ask, this is:

Why the letter M?

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Why the letter M?

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M for Master(y/ed) ofcourse :D

Or perhaps C (roman numeral for 100).

Yeah, I was thinking C would make more sense. I think SE said something in the original Japanese post about using Stars for it or something, but my memory of it is clouded by the poor machine translation.

Even cooler then stars or something like that would be either two zeros (could cause troubles though) or even better, it being blank, but again, this could possibly cause troubles.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Yeah, I was thinking C would make more sense. I think SE said something in the original Japanese post about using Stars for it or something, but my memory of it is clouded by the poor machine translation.

Even cooler then stars or something like that would be either two zeros (could cause troubles though) or even better, it being blank, but again, this could possibly cause troubles.

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I like the star idea, that's used in a lot to indicate mastery.

Unfortunately, it won't apply if they ever decide to raise the crap again. Just stick to numbers.

I like 100 cap, just seems like a better number. Won't really change the game any ether, as it's just one level. It will give a couple more subjob items. But I don't see anything spectacular.

100 please

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Originally Posted by Winrie

Daniel, pot kettle black. Topic is vote lvl 99 or 100 not rdm or job adjustments, so don't tell someone to gtfo for following camate's question, now thank you very much~

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There has to be some corollary of Godwin's Law involving FFXI forums and Red Mage bickering.

Crafts are all 100, Level 100 for jobs kind of seems where it should be.

As for all the issues with subjob and stuff... they threw that all when they raised the cap from 75.

Also with 100 cap at least the RA/EX octave club wouldn't be totally worthless only mainly useless!
Cheer for 96 DRK to use there octave clubs!

I say 100, also I'd like to add in that my main is rdm. And have no problem losing composure as a sub. No job could ever touch a full emp set and added gear on spell duration when subbing rdm. And I do so hate being on blm and having my refresh run out so fast. Not to mention the idea of picking up and extra stratagem and stona on /sch sounds great to me.
Go go 100

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

I say 100, also I'd like to add in that my main is rdm. And have no problem losing composure as a sub. No job could ever touch a full emp set and added gear on spell duration when subbing rdm. And I do so hate being on blm and having my refresh run out so fast. Not to mention the idea of picking up and extra stratagem and stona on /sch sounds great to me.
Go go 100

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SCH with Composure = RDM Death.