FINAL FANTASY XI Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto [Blue Mage]

I'd like Diffusion to be lowered too.

Although I don't see it happening. :(

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Originally Posted by Covenant

@defiledsickeness... I think we DO get a massive damage spell...they're called physical spells and can be spam mend for low mp and fast recast timers. Not to mention efflux and skill chain boosts?

I consider myself average Bluemage at lvl 85 and can get 1-1.5 k with hysterical barrage and efflux on normal mobs. Ghats pretty strong for 76mp. Not to mention the whole solo skill chain equations.

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i said -dmg spell, MINUS massive dmg. like the ninja spell or the brd spell Scherzo. sorry i wasnt more clear.

idk why people would replace the awesome armor we get with refresh armor. i dont find it terribly difficult to keep my MP up on blu unless im spamming Occultation and Embrace to stay alive. and the blue mage AF3 body completely replaces the relic.

as for the Rdm head piece, sure fast cast is great. but if you want to do damage why not wear MAB armor? unless you're stunning why would you really need fast cast? we already get a ton and there are many other pieces if you cant get dyna wins. try augmented necks from La Theine abyssea, the RDM earring, the one from trading Ancient Beastmen coins.... etc. dont forget to haste yourself (and if you cant get it then wear haste armor like the walarha turban).

although i dont have any +movespeed gear for rdm so i almost never sub Nin, which i can see needing fast cast for ichi.

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Originally Posted by Defiledsickness

i said -dmg spell, MINUS massive dmg. like the ninja spell or the brd spell Scherzo. sorry i wasnt more clear.

idk why people would replace the awesome armor we get with refresh armor. i dont find it terribly difficult to keep my MP up on blu unless im spamming Occultation and Embrace to stay alive. and the blue mage AF3 body completely replaces the relic.

as for the Rdm head piece, sure fast cast is great. but if you want to do damage why not wear MAB armor? unless you're stunning why would you really need fast cast? we already get a ton and there are many other pieces if you cant get dyna wins. try augmented necks from La Theine abyssea, the RDM earring, the one from trading Ancient Beastmen coins.... etc. dont forget to haste yourself (and if you cant get it then wear haste armor like the walarha turban).

although i dont have any +movespeed gear for rdm so i almost never sub Nin, which i can see needing fast cast for ichi.

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Do you even gear swap? I mean your post just screams that you don't...

Refresh gear is swapped in during idle times i.e. when you just finished a monster and are waiting on/running to next one.
Fast Cast gear is swapped out once the spell starts casting. Then you swap to the stat that matters for a given spell.

i play on 360 so i cant have 30 macro lines for each spell. i do gear swap but on blu i have haste gear during the main time for melee dmg as i dont believe in blu's who spam spells for dmg.

as i said there are certainly times when fast cast is great, but the macro system makes it fairly difficult to double up on macros for every single spell. and in order to swap a full set of gear it takes 3 macros. i have my gear preset for each function and (for rdm) staves set on each individual spell.

imo you want haste gear, swap to dmg gear for WS/SC/MB, and have a fast cast setup for when you need ichi up. unless im on smn i dont normally need a fast cast setup to get ichi up, although it would be better for recast times on mobs that take shadows down quickly. normally i dont solo those types of mobs and blu and rdm aren't exactly tanks (at least not until i finish almace).

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Originally Posted by Defiledsickness

i play on 360 so i cant have 30 macro lines for each spell. i do gear swap but on blu i have haste gear during the main time for melee dmg as i dont believe in blu's who spam spells for dmg.

as i said there are certainly times when fast cast is great, but the macro system makes it fairly difficult to double up on macros for every single spell. and in order to swap a full set of gear it takes 3 macros. i have my gear preset for each function and (for rdm) staves set on each individual spell.

imo you want haste gear, swap to dmg gear for WS/SC/MB, and have a fast cast setup for when you need ichi up. unless im on smn i dont normally need a fast cast setup to get ichi up, although it would be better for recast times on mobs that take shadows down quickly. normally i dont solo those types of mobs and blu and rdm aren't exactly tanks (at least not until i finish almace).

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/equip lear "Loquacious Earring"
/equip legs "Homam Cosciales"
/equip body "Mederi Talar"
/ma "Pick Your Spell"
/echo ~~~~~ You're Leaving Set 1 ~~~~~
/macro set 2


/equip
/equip
/equip
/equip
/echo ~~~~~ You're Leaving Set 2 ~~~~~
/macro set 1

IMO doing macros like that aren't that complicated and all you have to do is press the same macro twice. You get Fast Cast and stats that help a given spell. 3 times if you need more gear swaps either way it can all be done nearly instantly.

I used to be of the mind set that going this route wasn't "necessary" but it honestly
makes a difference that is noticeable.

see i only recently even found out there IS a /macro command. and i tried using it and asked my LS but they said you can only change macro books with it. if i can actually hit 2+ macros with it then it would be viable.

still i am very used to my macro setup as is. blue mage i have the 3 DD spells i always use, typhoon, my enhancement spells, shadows, and embrace. it fills up my first set, then scroll down for my charged whisker set (including sleepga). and scroll up for my gear swapping. i originally tried macroing gear to each spell based on its modifier, but with only 5 (6?) lines i cant swap every piece. and this method became more annoying when i didnt have a random spell macro'd and further annoying when i became mostly haste based in line for Almace.

rdm i just have my gear set up for enfeebling, healing, nuking, mnd-based enfeebling/enhancing. then staves/grips set to each spell. then i just pick gear for what i plan on doing and when it's necessary to change its not too tough. but with all my spells i take up 3 sets (set0, set1, set2) and then use set10 for gear. thats a lot of scrolling and not including when im /nin or meleeing.

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Originally Posted by Defiledsickness

see i only recently even found out there IS a /macro command. and i tried using it and asked my LS but they said you can only change macro books with it. if i can actually hit 2+ macros with it then it would be viable.

still i am very used to my macro setup as is. blue mage i have the 3 DD spells i always use, typhoon, my enhancement spells, shadows, and embrace. it fills up my first set, then scroll down for my charged whisker set (including sleepga). and scroll up for my gear swapping. i originally tried macroing gear to each spell based on its modifier, but with only 5 (6?) lines i cant swap every piece. and this method became more annoying when i didnt have a random spell macro'd and further annoying when i became mostly haste based in line for Almace.

rdm i just have my gear set up for enfeebling, healing, nuking, mnd-based enfeebling/enhancing. then staves/grips set to each spell. then i just pick gear for what i plan on doing and when it's necessary to change its not too tough. but with all my spells i take up 3 sets (set0, set1, set2) and then use set10 for gear. thats a lot of scrolling and not including when im /nin or meleeing.

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You can't "hit 2 macros at once" (maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording) but pressing the macro twice is how that works. I've only had that screw up when I'm lagging otherwise a quick double tap works out nicely.

Most people don't know about /macro which I find odd since it wasn't really a secret, I assume it was just a refusal to change when it was introduced.

It does take getting used to, honestly you'll mess up a lot in the beginning, well I did anyways.

For my RDM I actually setup the first 3 top macros (Ctrl for me) of each set with a swap to Enfeebling, Nuking, Healing sets also if I was in say the Enfeebling one I just have it echo something about you're in Enfeebling so it didn't do anything else.

i may play around with that but i have each book set to a different job so idk how far i'll go with it.

i never knew about /macro because no wiki guides or players ever discuss it. i just randomly looked through /commands and found it.

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Originally Posted by Defiledsickness

i may play around with that but i have each book set to a different job so idk how far i'll go with it.

i never knew about /macro because no wiki guides or players ever discuss it. i just randomly looked through /commands and found it.

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http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Macro has it in there. Also has <a#> which is amazing for healers (most don't know about that targeting feature) who aren't in the tank PT :D

never knew about that lol. its not tooo tough targeting with a controller, keyboard kills me though :P

though i think we're successfully way off topic lol

Yes I'm definitely looking forward to hopefully Spike Flail and Thunder Bolt at least from those two HNM's would be fun, if nothing else, but they said HNM not which ones, just an idea wouldn't be awesome to get Hydra,Cerberus, or Khimara spells? Remember they're considered HNM's too and having at least one of their moves would be incredible, though knowing SE ours would be gimp as hell but again fun to have!!!!

I'd like to see at least the breath spells hp modifier all scaled up to heat breaths 50%, but really they could probably bump that up to 100% compared to the amount of damage and relative size of a black mages mp pool. Breath spells are already limited in functionality compared to black magic. I see no reason they shouldn't at least be on par with it damage wise, especially since magic attack bonus doesn't work on them.

Probably already mentioned this, but streamlining the stat modifiers we need would be nice. No one want's to carry around specific sets just for one spell. I think making all physical spells strength and dexterity, and all magic intelligence mind would be reasonable. Also granting Magic Attack Bonus a physical spell attack bonus would also work well and would probably be fairly balanced.

I'd also like to see the effect duration of some of our enhancement spells increased. That includes benefits you steal via osmosis.
example: cocoon, metallic body, plasma charge, amplification, zephyr mantle, diamondhide, memento mori, Plenilune Embrace
doubling the duration of most of these spells would not break anything and make them a little more appealing to equip.

Granting us the proper level of job traits at high level would also make a lot of things much much more useful:
attack bonus, defense bonus, max hp bonus, magic attack bonus, dual wield. We're generally limited on how many of these we can use anyways because of our blue magic points, I see no reason why they couldn't be full strength, or one level less than a main job.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand...

Personally, I absolutely love xbobx's idea from page 1 that would give us a Job Trait that lowered all spells' set cost by 1. 55 points really is not enough. There are so many spells on my list that I have literally never used that it's kinda sad (and I leveled BLU back in the Aht Urhgan days, not in Abyssea). If I had that kind of point leeway, there are a ton of spells that look really fun that I would start using (Jettaturra, Osmosis, Blood Saber, Reaving Wind, Feather Tickle just to name a few).

If something like that isn't possible, then perhaps a job ability with a modest cooldown (5-10 mins) that would unlock our full spell list for :30-1:00.

In any case, I very much hope that they increase the limit to Assimilation merits as well as give us more native set points as the level cap goes up.

I would very much like if our spell damage wasn't so harshly effected by mob's defense/level. As it stands, it's very hard to get good numbers on HNMs with Blue Magic sans Sneak Attack. Combined with the inherent weakness of Swords and Sword Weapon Skills, we have little to no value on most high-end fights (aside from gimmicks like stagger procs).

Most importantly though, I would like to be able to save spell sets. Hell, I'll give up entire Macro books for it! Something similar to how Atma sets are saved. I know that PUPs are asking for something similar for their attachments, and I believe the dev's response was something about the UI Interface requiring changes to make it possible, but it's worth it IMO.

I like that idea, a JA that lets us use any spell from our library once. I don't think it would be overpowered.

I want equipment with the following effect to be implemented:

"Blue Magic Physical Damage +??%"

And not just the odd piece with 1%/2% on it. Or at lesser extent, more equipment with "Occasionally Augments Blue Magic" (but meh).

enhances skillchain dmg would be cool too

Skillchain Bonus?

ya we already got that as a trait, unless your asking for gear that augments that trait

something that adds to Blue Magic attack or "Enhances" Blue magic buffs.

+ Blue Magic ATK (physical) would have pretty poor returns unless it was in seriously substantial amounts.

Like +20 on a single piece, with several pieces being made available and a food buff.


How would you like Blue Magic buffs enhanced further? Duration? Effect?

on buffs a little of both, but can live with either or. Our AF3 set proc only affects enemy targeting spells it seems, be nice if the proc set or something along the lines came to enhance our buffs as that is a big piece of our repetoire as well.

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Originally Posted by Scuro

ya we already got that as a trait, unless your asking for gear that augments that trait

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sure, the more damage the better. SC is our biggest form of damage atm. its not like everyone has the triat set 100% of the time, so just an effect that stacks with the trait would be nice. like how there's armor that increases magic burst damage, even though some jobs have Magic Burst Bonus trait.

There skillchain dmg + equipment in the game.

Crimson/Blood Greaves can give up to +3% Skillchain Damage.

Skillchain is not our biggest form of damage atm.

maybe not over time but doing 2k+ ws and then 2k+ spell then Light or Dark sc does another 2k+, i dont think anything would be more dmg then that combo.

of course SATA does a ton too. but combine it into a sc and its even more dmg. what does more dmg then a SC? i didnt mean only wear SC gear :P

are you talking about charged whisker? i guess thats more if you mutliply how many enemies you hit, but you could do 5k with SATA too.

Oh you didn't mean "over time".

i said "maybe not" but how would you beat it? either Charged whisker or spamming delta thrust idk. for a melee blu you cant possibly think SC doesnt matter.

You stated SC is our biggest form of damage atm. I said it's not, not that it doesn't matter.

To pick out something exclusively, meleeing is our biggest form of damage atm with a critical hit build. For the sake of comparison:

In a build with 26% Equipment Haste, Loki's Kaftan, Store TP 1, Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Animating Wail Dual Wield 3 and Suppanomimi roughly your using a Almace/Khanda +2 stats are:

- 192 Total Delay (3.35 Seconds)
- 5.5 TP Per Hit

This means it takes 19 Hits for 100TP. Before calculating additional attacks (DA, TA), assuming capped accuracy, and before factoring any haste samba it'll take 33.5 seconds (3.35 x 10 Attack Rounds ((20 Hits)) to reach 100 TP.

If we assume on average the amount of damage you're doing for each melee attack is 200, you're doing 400 for every 2 hits. Every 33.5 seconds, you will have done ~4000 damage.

In summation, the above example argues that every 2 minutes you spend waiting for Chain Affinity to reset, you will have done roughly 14,328 damage through meleeing alone.

how does DW effect tp? cuz 5.5tp per hit seems pretty low

The amount of TP gained is dependant on your Delay. Dual Wield reduces your delay, and the lower it gets, the less TP you gain per hit.

Of course when you dual wield, you hit at least twice per round. In the above example you gain ~11 TP per attack round.

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Originally Posted by Tashan

+ Blue Magic ATK (physical) would have pretty poor returns unless it was in seriously substantial amounts.

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On the other hand, it seems like a good enhancement to Blue Magic Attack would be the best way to increase spell damage on anything with more defense than a peeled, boiled potato. Something like +10~25% from a job trait, or +50~100% from a one-spell job ability.

Of course, it could just be changed to receive bonuses from food, which would probably make me happier than any other change.

Or am I way off in thinking this? I'm sure you've examined the effects of Blue Magic Attack way more than I have.

Blue mages, your time has come! Here is some feedback from the development in regards to your comments about the job adjustment manifesto.

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Add blue magic that can only be used while under the effects of Azure Lore.

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While it won’t be for Azure Lore, in the next version update we will be introducing a new ability that will allow you to use HNM abilities while under its effects.

There will be no need to set the HNM abilities and you will be able to use them once the ability recast timer is up (planning for 5 minutes or thereabouts).
*You will still need to learn the spell beforehand.

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Lengthen the effect duration for Azure Lore.

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We would like to look into doing something for this.

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Reduce the overall cost of blue magic spell points.

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Since part of the strategy is to make a choice within set requirements, we have no plan of reducing the overall cost. We will be making balance adjustments to the increases in set numbers depending on your level.

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Reduce or get rid of the penalty incurred after setting blue magic spells.

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The concept is that you acquire blue magic spells via learning and then you can change battle strategies by picking and choosing spells within the blue magic spell points and set limitations. If you were able to change spells freely, the whole battle strategy aspect would be lost, so we have no plans to remove/reduce the penalty.

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Add an ability that allows you to use cast blue magic spells that are not currently set.

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We tried looking into this, but it would make having to set spells beforehand nearly pointless, so we will be putting this idea on the back burner for now.

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Reduce the casting time on blue magic spells.

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I believe this comment is mainly meant for magical type blue spells, but the casting time has been set while considering the power, added effects, and other usages.
Though it depends on the type, the casting time is pretty reasonable when comparing to elemental magic and enhancing magic, so we have no plans to change this.

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Add higher tier AoE healing magic/Will White Wind be added?

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We are planning to add White Wind in the upcoming version update.

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Make changes so that blue magic skill, not healing magic skill enhances the cure bonus for healing-type blue magic spells.

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This was set this way purposefully so that the effect is enhanced more when you select a support job that has healing magic skill, and the cure amount is based on this number.

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Make it possible to enhance job traits.

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The below job traits are set so they can be enhanced.

Dual Wield/Fast Cast/Store TP/HPmax/MPmax/Auto Regen/Counter/Magic Burst Bonus/Skill Chain Bonus

While it is not possible to enhance all of the above job traits at level 90, with further level cap increase and the addition of new blue magic spells it will be possible to enhance them.

Also, when double attack/gilfinder are enhanced, we are planning to have them change into triple attack/treasure hunter.

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Originally Posted by Camate

The concept is that you acquire blue magic spells via learning and then you can change battle strategies by picking and choosing spells within the blue magic spell points and set limitations. If you were able to change spells freely, the whole battle strategy aspect would be lost, so we have no plans to remove/reduce the penalty.

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The concept is lost when almost all Blue Mages are getting their spells ahead of time and not learning them in the middle of battle.

Other than that I'm very happy with this response :)

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Originally Posted by Zagen

The concept is lost when almost all Blue Mages are getting their spells ahead of time and not learning them in the middle of battle.

Other than that I'm very happy with this response :)

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I think it's something like you take time to remember and get the feeling of a spell you learned beforehand. Perhaps it wouldn't make sense for spells you always use, but I don't know ^^;

See now this is good stuff. Hope we get Mighty Guard for the last of the classic must have blue magic spells.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Also, when double attack/gilfinder are enhanced, we are planning to have them change into triple attack/treasure hunter.

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Dear SE,

What the f*ck did we ever do to you?

Sincerely,
Thieves

It's weird to read one of these that isn't just a laundry list of the worst questions ever asked along with responses to the negative.

I wasn't expecting set points per level to be re-evaluated, or any of the other potential things that could be coming. The job ability connected to HNM spells gives me the feeling they won't be toned down to the extent most Blue Magic is. Feels good man.

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Add an ability that allows you to use cast blue magic spells that are not currently set.

We tried looking into this, but it would make having to set spells beforehand nearly pointless, so we will be putting this idea on the back burner for now.

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How about an ability with a long recast that lets you choose one spell not set to use once.

AOE Cure and more AOE enhancing spells is very welcomed. 5 min recast for HNM spells is reasonable too.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Dear SE,

What the f*ck did we ever do to you?

Sincerely,
Thieves

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Dear Thieves,

If any of you were proper, non-Abyssea burned Thieves, you'd have TH6 in traits/gear outside of abyssea and TH7 inside. Where as, for a BLU to set 4 spells to get one tier in Treasure Hunter (which won't be able to upgrade it higher than trait.) And there's only two spells that make Gilfinder at the moment. Meaning two new spells will be added to make it for the 4 spells. Not to mention the fact that BLUs have always been able to make most every job trait in this game save for some newer ones.

As for Triple Attack, it will only be 5% proc rate. Where as Thieves can get 10% thanks to merits and then +7~10% (depending on if they use Triplus Dagger or not) in gear for idling in. 5% compared to 17~20% (+15% from Atma of the Apoc.)

In closing, shut up. Grow up. Deal with it.

Sincerely,
A Theif

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Originally Posted by Zagen

The concept is lost when almost all Blue Mages are getting their spells ahead of time and not learning them in the middle of battle.

Other than that I'm very happy with this response :)

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you misread what he's saying, he's implying that a BLU can change their strategy on the whim by changing the spells on hand not a BLU learns new spells in the middle of a fight lol. He's saying that if you were to change without the 1min downtime to use it would defeat the purpose of what a BLU spell list is since then basically you'd be able to use every spell in essence.

Perhaps as a suggestion such as PUPs are asking for with their automatons it would be nice to see the ability to set different list of BLU spells so one can change faster. If you consider that there is a 1 min penalty after setting spells the reality is the penalty is longer depending on how many spells and considering what spells you'd like to set so in reality the penalty may range from 2-4 minutes.

Perhaps, when you open the blu mage spell list to add spells I think the 1 min penalty should start then, if you don't set any spells then the timer disappears, however if you do set spells then the timer will stay for whatever time is left after setting the spells. In this sense then there is an actual static 1min penalty rather then the variable considering the time it takes to set new spells.

The logic behind this is, while you are in the blue mage spell list to choose spells you are unable to really input other commands so it seems like it wouldnt' be to tough to implement the timer then rather then after setting all spells.