First of all, I wanted to thank everyone

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Just goes to show that spoiling a child will leave them without morals, and likely without friends, when they're older.

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There are no such thing as moral values on the internet.

Take away the ability to punch somebody in the nose for being a jerk and everyone becomes a jerk.

well the point he's getting at is the fighting group can prevent these kinds of problems.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

well the point he's getting at is the fighting group can prevent these kinds of problems.

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Correct. But it's a bit unfair IMO, to steal someone's mob when you don't even know the reasoning behind their fail:
Maybe the whm's kid just fell off a chair and they had to abandon the group for a minute to go and see to them.
Maybe it's a pickup group and they happen to have chosen the 1 useless tank, or mage on the server? Should the whole group suffer because of 1 person's failing?

I also suppose it's different if it's a mob that you pop with an item you can buy of ah that drops from the regular mobs around the area, or if it's a mob that you paid 120k for the pop item, or you had to get 3-4 KIs from other NMs to pop it.

The bottom line is, play nice and play fair. After all, it's just a game. Always try to come to an agreement verbally (eg. ask if you can join them and help them to kill it so that they stop holding you up), and only if they refuse should it be necessary to take matters into your* own hands.

* As in the community as a whole, not Alhanelem in particular, I just happened to quote him on this occasion.

This is honestly more about those times when you lose claim while you're still fighting I think. There is a reason it happens- If the last person who touched the mob loses hate or dies, or when hate is generally low because the party is struggling to do anything but hasn't wiped yet. If a group is conciously aware of how claim works, they can prevent it from happening. The game does it this way because more often than not, when hate is lost the battle is lost- the group is either unable to keep the monster's attention or is dying.

I'm no advocate of camping a group that's fighting and trying to steal claim at any opportunity- but I think it's not reasonable to be super pissed when you've got a bunch of KO'd people, no one doing damage, you've basically lost and the monster is walking toward it's pop spot about to depop and it is taken at this point. If they didn't take it, then it would have disappeared and nobody would have gotten anything. (However, if I were to do this, I would probably invite people from the other group to lot the stuff they needed.)

"If it aint broke, don't fix it" - Springs to mind here.

I think what it boils down to is basic [SIZE="5"]Etiquette[/SIZE]. Generally most people will offer to help if you're failing at a mob... And no contrary to what some people think it's not down to how you play- "Lag spike" ever heard of it ? That's happened to me a few times....

However sometimes you get the players who decide to Ninja your mob because they deem it's theirs... Sadly nothing can be done about those people, they're genetically built to be morons.

I don't see a problem with the claim system as a whole - It just boils down to whether you get a nice player with manners walk past when it unclaims and offers to help .. Or.. one of the genetic morons

The goal of my post was achieved, assuming the Dev Team doesn't share the reading comprehension of the majority of people that posted in that thread... I would love a response from a Community Representative, but I don't think I will get one, considering the hostility and scorn I presented in the original post. To be honest, that kind of set the mood for the thread, and I got exactly what I deserved.

It just dwindled to advocating self-fornication, suggesting participants commit suicide, and a particularly amusing war of wits between Bigboy and some seemingly unarmed opponents.

My only suggestion to Square at this point would be, that when a thread is as "hot" as that one turned out to be, you might want to assign someone from your "A-team" to moderate it next time. The way that one was handled really highlights how immature your company is currently at handling public communications. The moderator that got assigned to the post seemed a little dim. Their "corrections" were extremely inconsistent, bordering on bias. They didn't do a complete cleanup; they removed posts but left the removed posts quoted in others' posts; and they left a post partially edited as stated earlier in this thread; Etc.

If a post turns "bad", you punish the ones being bad, not the creator of the thread by locking it; unless the original thread itself is offensive. Locking a thread as you did just sends a message to the people that dissagree with a post (or trolls) that if they "Junk up" a thread long enough, you guys will just close it.

I have nothing else to say other than thank you to everyone that participated, I had no idea how much that thread would affect the community. One can only hope that SE can see the 40+ "Likes" and hold to their word they will listen to the public voice. (Preferably the 40+ "Likes" and not the 5-8 extremely vocal people against it...)

They read the forums- they don't just pick and choose who to respond to by how people are behaving in the thread. Don't think that having a perfect thread with angels floating in circles around it will get you a community team response. For the most part, they likely have certain topics that are in line with what's going on in dev team land, and that is probably where they direct the meat of their attention.

That said, this topic really wasn't that heated or bad and I don't think anyone was really out of line.

You don't need to govel, apologize, or thank anyone. Just come in and state your piece. Things work out much better that way.

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(Preferably the 40+ "Likes" and not the 5-8 extremely vocal people against it...)

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Neither the likes, nor the vocal complaints are really a good measure of anything. Don't think just because a post got X number of likes that everyone likes the idea. By the same token, just because some people are vocal about their opinion, that doesn't automatically mean that the other person is wrong or had a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

For the most part, they likely have certain topics that are in line with what's going on in dev team land, and that is probably where they direct the meat of their attention.

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This. They're currently redoing einherjar and salvage, so posting about your ideas of how you think they should work in 2011 is more likely to see a response than posting about something that they aren't looking into. Especially in the short-term. Maybe when they finish those updates they'll spend more time looking through to see what the next biggest gripes are and see if they can 'fix' them.

i go watch ppl fight there Nm and see them wipe then jack it so... idk how that unfair at all when i just watch them lose at the fight

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Originally Posted by Kya

i go watch ppl fight there Nm and see them wipe then a jack it so... idk how that unfair at all when i just watch them lose at the fight

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I guess English is not your first language, so it's kind of hard to understand your exact meaning. If however you're saying that it's fair to steal someone's NM that they worked hard to get pop items for, then I believe you're wrong. They should have a chance to raise up and brew it or recover, in my opinion.
If that wasn't your intention then I apologise.