Claim System + Call for Help Code = Win

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Originally Posted by rog

It is an exploit. Anyone who says otherwise is retarded, and wrong.

You might want to invest in a dictionary.

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I don't see pinning as an exploit at all as long as the mob can reach and kill a player who stops doing anything.

Now, trapping the Ironclads and Amhuluk on the cliffs in Abyssea and rendering them helpless? Yeah, that was an exploit.

See also: Wall of Justice.

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Originally Posted by Eeek

I don't see pinning as an exploit at all as long as the mob can reach and kill a player who stops doing anything.

Now, trapping the Ironclads and Amhuluk on the cliffs in Abyssea and rendering them helpless? Yeah, that was an exploit.

See also: Wall of Justice.

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You are still exploiting a weakness. It is an exploit just like casting water on tiamat is.

ITT: your wrong.

For the love of all that is holy, SE needs to do start punishing these forum trolls.

a. pinning is not an exploit, it's a tactic. Granted, not all jobs can do it effectively, but that's why there are 20 job choices. All you have to do is level a job that can do it.

b. if you "lose claim" you do not necessarily "suck", there's some funkiness with the game hate mechanics that are simply not realistic. If you poison someone and they are still taking damage from it RL they are not gonna stop being pissed at you because you've walked 30 feet away or haven't poisoned them again for 5 seconds. Apparently in Vanadiel they REALLY believe in "turning the other cheek".

c. you will never get people who believe that it is wrong for you to take a mob that they have done the work to obtain (and you have not), claimed, and through some mechanism (death of last player to cause damage, mass charm, etc.) momentarily have go white believe that it is right for you to profit from their efforts by claiming a weakened mob and killing it yourself. You are wasting your efforts by even trying to convince them. Yes I know the rules allow it, RL allows you to travel to other countries to have sex with child prostitutes (or animals) legally, that doesn't make it right, this is a matter of ethics. Taking that mob is unethical. You should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to take it.

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Taking that mob is unethical. You should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to take it.

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When the original gorup has zero chance of defeating they mob, no, they shouldnt be ashamed. that mob would just depop and anything it might drop would simply be gone.

However, if I were to be involved in something like this, I would consider inviting people from the group to lot on drops. Either way though, it is better that the mob is actually killed than no one kiling it, the mob depopping, and the pop truly going to waste.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

When the original gorup has zero chance of defeating they mob, no, they shouldnt be ashamed. that mob would just depop and anything it might drop would simply be gone.

However, if I were to be involved in something like this, I would consider inviting people from the group to lot on drops. Either way though, it is better that the mob is actually killed than no one kiling it, the mob depopping, and the pop truly going to waste.

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actually, I believe that the vulture group SHOULD be forced to either wait until the mob is at full strength or it should depop and go to waste. And a mob going white for a second doesn't mean that the popping group has "zero chance of defeating the mob", that's a BS argument people have tried to use to justify stealing it since day one here. Those complaining of the stealing of the mob are still determined to keep fighting and killing it. They may need a player to RR and reengage and kite through weakness, or have a charm wear or whatever, but they are still game or they wouldn't care. The only REAL reason they have "zero chance of defeating the mob" is because it seems some ass-hat stole it while they were trying to reestablish claim on it and won't release it back to the group that actually did the work.

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Your party/alliance leader cannot press this button while KO'd- thus a group can even unintentionally monopolize a monster without being able to defeat it.

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Emphasizing the leader keep RR active and use it responsibly is a bit more sensible than the "suck less" mantra floating around justifying the system's current flaws. Besides, some are also too quick to determine when a group has no chance.

Overall, I can understanding not wanting to waste time or stand around with your finger up your butt at a contested mob. Ideally, the better solution would be to further expand on the amount of copies an NM that can be up to encompass all popped mobs much like they recently did with the zone bosses and such. The goal is both minimize the chances to steal and the temptation to.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

a. pinning is not an exploit, it's a tactic. Granted, not all jobs can do it effectively, but that's why there are 20 job choices. All you have to do is level a job that can do it.

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Yes it is. It is ok though, because so is nuking water instead of fire on tiamat, because it is less likely to resist. Pinning exploits poor pathings AI, and nuking water on tiamat exploits his weakness to water. The confusion here is that people associate the word "exploit" with something bad. In fact exploiting something is more often than not, a good thing.

Look! he's standing close to the fence! I'm gonna get him......! oh no! now he stepped back .5 yalms... now I gotta run around this long fence, taking 10 seconds before I can hit him.... ah crap I was almost there and now he's close to the fence again... even though I can see him right there in front of me... I'm gonna run back around the fence!


yea... not an exploit.

but everyone please do continue.. I'm laughing so hard at people rationalizing with the same basic idea that "It's not an exploit, it's taking advantage of a terrain tactic"

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Originally Posted by Capn

Look! he's standing close to the fence! I'm gonna get him......! oh no! now he stepped back .5 yalms... now I gotta run around this long fence, taking 10 seconds before I can hit him.... ah crap I was almost there and now he's close to the fence again... even though I can see him right there in front of me... I'm gonna run back around the fence!


yea... not an exploit.

but everyone please do continue.. I'm laughing so hard at people rationalizing with the same basic idea that "It's not an exploit, it's taking advantage of a terrain tactic"

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Just fyi, not all pinning works that way. It is still an effective strategy even with just a simple rock to kite around. Pinning only became popular (and thus hated) with VNMs, when kaeko found the various spots, such as the ronfaure fence, etc, that worked as you described. However it has been used since the beginning of the game (and earlier, in other games, not to mention since the beginning of time in irl), because even without poor tracking AIs, it works. The time it takes for a mob (or person/animal/whatever) to react is all that is needed to create an advantage.

But yes, it is an exploit, as i explained above.