Dual weild

DNC and THF have their own advantages... DNC is good soloing when THF cant really (due to lack of heals and eating up large spells like -GAs). Don't add bolts, cause they are time consuming, and you cant even drain some mobs.

But what i can tell you is just add a healer to a THF and it will be no way it can be beaten. So far in Abyssea, only a WAR and a NIN which i know can out-damage me, and both using uber equipment (including full AF+2 and Trail weapons @ 85).

My layout (atma/equip/merits) allows me to do a WS every 15-20 secs; with Evi ranging from 1k-4k depending on the mob, and i dont have full AF+2 yet neither Twasthar.

How can you beat that??? i doubt Dancer can...

As of native Dual Wield... /NIN is the best friend of a thief... shadows are life savers, so id say its fine like right now.

But really, SE needs to drop some Subtle Blow into THFs... its ourageous the way i feed TP to mobs >.<

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Originally Posted by Pesh

Between VV/RR/Apoc.

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Errr keep using RR no doubt and Apoc has it's merits as well but if going for straight DD set up idk if I would use it. But for sure replace VV with either Dark Depths or Gnarled Horn. With either of those you should be able to increase critical hit rate up to about 80%. And depending on the situation I would exchange Apoc (most likely if tanking), VV (very nice DD atma of course) and dread (If TH is your main concern). Just my suggestion but feel free to ignore me.

Now for getting back on topic and staying out of this stupid DNC vs THF debate that has no place in this thread... Getting some native subtle blow on THF would be absolutely amazing and something SE should really consider giving us. But only if they give us subtle blow IV or higher other wise it is just a wasted and pointless trait.

Why is there so much call for subtle blow? With the way Agi reduces monster TP gain now, I really don't see a reason to ask for it.

In related logic: giving thief "just any ol' dual wield" does one thing that's more valuable than I could ever begin to explain, when I change jobs to say, blm sub to warp and back to nin, I dont' have to make it all the way out to the field and start fighting before I realize I forgot to put on my offhand... Would I have liked that luxury earlier? sure.

Personally I am at the point where any job that natively/typically(Twilight Belt jobs) uses 1-handed weapons should get native Dual Wield, and have it progress competitively to align with the bonuses the 2-handed jobs now possess.

Oh look, another QQ thread.

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Originally Posted by Yarly

Oh look, another QQ thread.

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Oh look, another person upping their post count by contributing absolutely nothing...

Thief gets: Triple Attack (10%), Dual Wield I, Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, 13 Dagger Skill, Feint, Conspirator

Dancer gets: Saber Dance, Dual Wield IV, Haste Samba

Generally in this matchup I would say that Thief comes out ahead, especially if the Dancer is attending other duties besides offense.

However this match up is closer than it should be. Dancer is not supposed to be a solely offensive job, and given that I think it's damage output shouldn't be nearly as close to Thief's as it is. When Dancer was first introduced it was pretty well balanced. However it was given numerous damage related buffs and what has made so close to Thief is their innate level of DW they were given. Dancer having native DW IV gives them the ability to use /WAR and not give up any delay reduction. Thief having only DWI restricts them to staying /NIN.

I think Thief should get DW IV, or the two jobs should both get DW III. There should be a decent offensive difference between the two jobs and the best way to accomplish this would be to equalize Dual Wield and keep Thief's other offensive abilities intact to provide that edge.

Alternatives to adjusting Dual Wield include adjusting Sneak Attack and Trick Attack timers to be significantly lower (30~ seconds vs. 60). At the haste levels the game is played at now their timers are far too high. Right now the skill difference is insignificant in the majority of situations. Even against more evasive mobs I think we need to be at natural A+ with Dancer staying at natural B+ before skill really becomes a deciding factor.

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Originally Posted by Frost

Oh look, another person upping their post count by contributing absolutely nothing...

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This.

Also, THF can solo quite well actually, depending on the mob of course. AoE heavy mobs will kill you fast, however all others are very easily soloable. I rarely get hit at all, and the occasional AoE can be either cured with temp items, or even better get one Regen Atma (Mounted Champion for highest Regen value or Vicissitude for some extra MDB). That way THF can easily solo many NMs in Abyssea.

Also, just one Regen Atma allows a THF to constantly kill regular mobs without shadows. I was able to solo Dom Ops to the point where I would get TEs like crazy, with never capping pearl/azure before the fight, instead just getting pearl from kills and azure from chests. THF's solo capabilities are really great with the right setup, sure you have to sacrifice some damage with a Regen Atma, but still they are able to dish out quite a bit.

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Thief having only DWI restricts them to staying /NIN.

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Not to nitpick but it keeps coming up in this thread...you guys do know that THF got DW2 in last level increase right?

Of course still have to sub /nin and not as good as DNC's DW4...but following the trend we probably will see DW4 by 99...

God I been fighting to urge to continue the Dnc vs. Thief thing but it IS relevant.. And I apologize in advance for continuing this line of conversation. With that shaky apology in hand I continue:

Two words: Wild Flourish...

Not only do Dancers get the awesome ability to skillchain with themselves, they get the added boon of a native skillchain bonus to boot. In Abyssea anyways, I toss out a Evisceration for 2,600-ish that's followed by a transfixtion for 1,700... every single minute.

And the only reason I even thought Dnc worth mentioning in the first place is I can solo shit on my dancer that I just, for the life of me cannot kill on my thief. And ironically, it's not because of the cures, as I dont' tend to use them, as they are just not needed. One reason is Fan Dance mitigating something on the order of 90% of the damage of an attack, this is great for attacks that remove shadows, or go through shadows. So an attack like say, Iktomi's Sickle Slash that goes through shadows, where my thief might take a 1k+ swipe to the face, my dancer laughs off a 40 or so damage bonk to the noggin.

Take those points and add the combined abilities to lower crit defense, defense, evasion, etc, it's really not hard to start to piece together why I had originally said what I said.

It's by no means a slight on the thief job whatsoever. As I prefer thief. The differences are null in the presence of any kind of healer. Save for the main difference that being I'M GOING TO GIT ME SUM LEWTZ! Which in the end is why Thief > Dnc.

If you get a Thief AND a Dancer... well then, you're just livin in fat city, as the benefits dancer brings to the tabel makes the thief shine more too, and vice versa. TH, Haste sambas, cure, Feint, SA, TA, fully backed by shadows, and all steps... It's 500% win.

if they gave us dual wield IV, we would still have to sub ninja. they should give thief an ability on a timer that allows us to parry the next 3-4 attacks, maybe 2 traits. so that we can sub something else.