Weapom Skill Adjustments: What we have and what we need

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Originally Posted by vedder

honestly the AM on apoc has been backed into a corner hard, ja haste pretty much capped alot(not always but alot) gear haste been capped a long time, aside from usin AM up/down swaps, re-making it as magic haste while nice i doubt it will happen, even more so if the "fabled" abs-speed does get created (/doubt)

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Apoc lets you wear AF3+2 head/hands/legs/feet full time and replace the weak body with an Adaberk and still have capped gear haste.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Why not ask for Dark Knight to be renamed to Munchkin while you are at it?

Nyzul WS were ment to fill a hole with their respective job not necessarily be the best WS. In fact the ONLY jobs where the Nyzul WS is clearly better than anything else was DRG and PLD, and that was specifically because DRG WS damage wasn't keeping up with polearm SAMs and PLDs couldn't do enough damage to HNMs to keep hate effectively (well they couldn't after either but hate generation via damage was SE's intention with Atonement)

Atonement: Damage based on Enmity, does same damage to everything. 750 damage is mediocre on pink birds but good on HNMs.

Mandalic Stab: Attack bonus WS for high DEF targets. Gives THF an equivalent to Tachi: Kasha, Spinning Slash, etc.

Drakesbane: SAM is doing more damage with Penta Thrust than DRG.

Tachi: Rana Multi-hit for SAM

Leaden Salute: Decent WS that doesn't depend on weapon DMG or ranged ACC, gets bonus from Quickdraw.

Insurgency: Guillotine that makes Light SC.

Insurgency was NEVER intended to be a new better WS for DRK, it was meant to give them an option on Scythe for making Light.


Anyway, instead of making Guillotine or Insurgency a crit hit, which would be broken with the new Last Resort change, fix Cross Reaper's damage multiplier at 2.0 and make TP=chance of critical hit.

Ukko's Fury Lite for DRK, problem solved.


As for relics.

All relic WS should be changed to "Delivers a critical attack, damage varies with TP" No "chance of a critical hit" they just deliver a crit, always.

All relic WS should do the same number of hits as depicted in the animation (this would balance the 1H and 2H relics as the 1Hs all depict multi hit animations and are lower DMG weapons)

Extra damage proc should be raised to 30%.

Aftermath effects should be increased in potency and duration. In some cases it should be adjusted as well. e.g. Yoichinoyumi's aftermath should have RACC/RATT not just RACC, Mandau should have +40% critical hit rate not +10%, Apocalypse's 10% haste should be non job ability non gear non magical.

All relic WS should be changed to 4.0/5.5/6.5 fTP at 100%/200/%300% TP

Relics that have useless or counterproductive additional effects should have those changed to something useful. (e.g. Mandau's Poison changed to poison/plague with a stronger DOT and no longer wakes mobs)

1H relics should have ACC stat added, 2H relics should have ATT stat added similar to ranged relics.

All relics should have some degree of ignore cRatio on all attacks.


Relics should not be made easier to obtain. Instead they should be made to be worth the effort. They shouldn't just be better, they should be "OMGWTFBBQ!!!ONEONEONE" better.

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First Most of this i disagree with for varying reasons..

But While relics should get a boost i dont think they need something as massive as what you describe

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Apoc lets you wear AF3+2 head/hands/legs/feet full time and replace the weak body with an Adaberk and still have capped gear haste.

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Why would you want to wear an Adaberk now? There's several better TP and WS choices now.

E:body sucks, FStr and Ddex are both capped inside abyssea, and ACC is definatley capped with apoc (is with normal drks using ace's hose) AF3+2 body is win even for apoc. If I had to pick a body for my apoc to TP in that wasnt AF body it would be Grim or Ares.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Apoc lets you wear AF3+2 head/hands/legs/feet full time and replace the weak body with an Adaberk and still have capped gear haste.

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why on earth am i wearing ebody still? I don't need the acc <_<

i was gonna say something in this regard before but figured id wait cause atomic seems fairly smart, glad the vets stepped in though. if i wasnt using bale+2 id be using either timarli (haste) try to lower xhit build (askar/aurum) or buck up an buy a grim(great -pdt str and attack) or rock my ares ft. sadly ebody isnt as usefull as it once was an your looking at a guy who fought 100+fafs and a good 40 hogs trying for one, id still take it if i could but it would only be a trophy piece with the current state of things

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Why would you want to wear an Adaberk now? There's several better TP and WS choices now.

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Nevertheless Apoc lets you drop the +2 Bale Cuirass and haste legs/feet (aces, homam or whatever) and replace them all with something better while maintaining capped haste.

Apoc + Full af+3 for that set bonus ?

Most certainly.

big question though is do they maintain xhit build losing stp from aces feet/goading if they swap those two itmes out. dart? taint?