[dev1010] Dark Knight's Adjustments

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Originally Posted by Jar

Its a big deal because most the time it will put us 10-15% haste above other ppl

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And why is that a bad thing?

To put things into perspective, most other melee have other ways of increasing their attack speed and TP gain - ie. Mnk with martial arts (30% reduction), nin with DW (35% reduction albeit lower TP gain), War with DA, Sam meditate + hasso, Drg jumps, etc. On top of that, with the exception of Sam, those jobs can take advantage of critical hit WSs. Drk has what? Absorb-TP and tactical parry? Oh right and Occult Acumen.

This is definitely a great addition to Drk without overpowering it. It simply levels the playing field a bit. I can only hope that the Devs have the sense not to nerf it in any way. That is my primary concern when I hear people claiming that it is overpowered in some way

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Originally Posted by Jar

Its a big deal because most the time it will put us 10-15% haste above other ppl

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I don't think he understands how much extra damage that is once you already have over 50% haste. It does not work like Double Attack where 10% = X amount of DPS. The amount of DPS haste adds is dependent on how much total haste you have. At 60% haste adding 20% more haste will double your DPS.

Also Torcleaver is comparable in damage to other job's critical hit WS. It's not that hard to get an NQ.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I posted a chart but he still doesn't understand how much extra damage that is once you already have over 50% haste. It does not work like Double Attack where 10% = X amount of DPS. The amount of DPS haste adds is dependent on how much total haste you have. At 60% haste adding 20% more haste will double your DPS.

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Why did you compare 61.5% to 80%? The former includes magical + gear, while the latter includes magical + gear + JA. A more fair comparison would be 71.5% to 80%, assuming Drk is using Hasso.

So the comparison would be:

Twilight Scythe (Dmg: 128, Delay: 513)

71.5% Haste; Delay: 146.205 DPS: 52.53


80% Haste; Delay: 102.6 DPS: 74.85


So pretty significant boost in DPS but not exactly close to double.

I'm curious, what do you feel about this update? I just ask because everything you say seems to border on it would make Drk overpowered. I do agree with you though that adding a crit WS might be pushing it but that is for the Devs to decide.

With our boosted Last Resort and Souleater, I don't think we'll need a crit WS. However, that all depends on how much HP loss there will be with Souleater active now. 5% or less would be significant enough.

Besides, a crit weaponskill is only needed to use with Razed Ruins to produce big numbers. There's a lot of new content coming outside of Abyssea. No Razed Ruins there. With that in mind, imagine a Last Resort/Souleater-powered DRK weaponskill like Torcleaver, Guillotine or Quietus.

We need a boost in Dark Magic now. The only thing WS-related I feel we need fixed is the modifiers. Especially for Quietus. STR+DEX over STR+MND please.

Also, it's Ignore Defense trait needs to be boosted. 10% chance at 100TP is kinda low.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

With our boosted Last Resort and Souleater, I don't think we'll need a crit WS. However, that all depends on how much HP loss there will be with Souleater active now. 5% or less would be significant enough.

Besides, a crit weaponskill is only needed to use with Razed Ruins to produce big numbers. There's a lot of new content coming outside of Abyssea. No Razed Ruins there. With that in mind, imagine a Last Resort/Souleater-powered DRK weaponskill like Torcleaver, Guillotine or Quietus.

We need a boost in Dark Magic now. The only thing WS-related I feel we need fixed is the modifiers. Especially for Quietus. STR+DEX over STR+MND please.

Also, it's Ignore Defense trait needs to be boosted. 10% chance at 100TP is kinda low.

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Critical hit WS's are still powerful in and out, For the most part Raging Rush > King's Justice (outside of 2hour). Evisceration > Dancing Edge (most of the time. its close but with the right gear theres no question). Rampage > Everything else. Vorpal Blade > Swift/Etc, Drakes > Penta

Some of those are bad examples but i think you see my point :(. While you guys dont need a Crit WS at all, It would be a nice addition. Could simply adjust Cross Reaper or Guillo to be crit, Given their fTP it wouldn't be any more broken than Drakesbane.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Critical hit WS's are still powerful in and out, For the most part Raging Rush > King's Justice (outside of 2hour). Evisceration > Dancing Edge (most of the time. its close but with the right gear theres no question). Rampage > Everything else. Vorpal Blade > Swift/Etc, Drakes > Penta

Some of those are bad examples but i think you see my point :(. While you guys dont need a Crit WS at all, It would be a nice addition. Could simply adjust Cross Reaper or Guillo to be crit, Given their fTP it wouldn't be any more broken than Drakesbane.

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I loled ... really hasnt even been a year inside abyssea..

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Originally Posted by Jar

I loled ... really hasnt even been a year inside abyssea..

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Are you actually implying Raging Rush is Worse than KJ? Or Evis Is worse than DE?

I'm really quite confused. I'm only implying Critical Hit Weaponskills are still rather powerful, Inside or Outside Abyssea. If you're getting anything else from it, you need to take a look at your sig and take its lessons to heart.

I'm not implying DRK needs one to be good, I'm just commenting on the part that sure while they don't need one, A lot of basic Crit WS good before Abyssea are good After, and outside. Its not just Razed Ruins that made them Uber-Shine.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Are you actually implying Raging Rush is Worse than KJ? Or Evis Is worse than DE?

I'm really quite confused. I'm only implying Critical Hit Weaponskills are still rather powerful, Inside or Outside Abyssea. If you're getting anything else from it, you need to take a look at your sig and take its lessons to heart.

I'm not implying DRK needs one to be good, I'm just commenting on the part that sure while they don't need one, A lot of basic Crit WS good before Abyssea are good After, and outside. Its not just Razed Ruins that made them Uber-Shine.

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Inb4 Crit nerf next update

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Originally Posted by Jar

Inb4 Crit nerf next update

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Intelligible conversation yet alludes you.

Are you now saying basically "They'll suck in the future because of this VIT-Crit.dmg Nerf"? The one we know nothing about? If so I can see where you're coming from. It worries me as well.

Somehow I still cling to hoping It won't nerf too hard, Or be a nerf at all, and just Effect players (Similar to "Fencer"). Or Perhaps further than it won't be as big as a Nerf as we think.

Or were you speaking of something else?

Either way, Probably better off with your best WS not being Crit based if thats the case. However WAR has KJ to fall on, and THF has Dancing Edge, DRG has Penta. Feel sorry for Rampage, So if you just had Crossreaper Crit'd, you still have Insurgency/Guil to fall back on!

Bright sides to everything.

I hope this isnt a nerf.

Edit: And you never answered my First Question. We're you just being a retard "Bandwagon Abyssea hater" Assuming that i was speaking only on behalf of Abyssea or implying i was "Abyssea bred" in regards to how Critical hit Weaponskills can be powerful inside or outside, Especially in this era of armor with a lot of Crit-Dmg+Gear and now Job Traits, That they are more powerful than they once were. That someone I didn't know what life is like outside Abyssea? You just confused me :(

Dancing edge > evi

DE has higher mods and Ftp....

KJ is in the same boat having better Ftp and mods....

im glad you like to crit and shit but without the +30% crit damage they are behind the weaponskills ppl used before abyssea..

ppl used them over the other weaponskill for a reason...