Utilizing Myrkr for Magic Blood pacts.

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Originally Posted by Cett

@ Evilvivi and Dallas, If you fail to see any application in this methodology, I'm sorry for your loss. The numbers cry out that Sea Daughter is better than Minikin. Your atma from the Windy story line won't break game boundaries. Summoner is meant for support, you can melee or have your pet melee or both. Though when you do so may be more detrimental to your group than if you were to play back line support.

In my linkshell, during an event at no time should a summoner no matter how large his or her ego is run in to melee a tier three notorious monster.

However, if you're solo'ing or low manning shit that drops thf head seals... go ahead.. melee, the effects won't hurt you. You're all being quite one sided in your judgements, open up a little and think on how you can be unique. That is all.

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We get it, we really do. You need an excuse to give your LS to get you your staff without actually admitting "yeah, I *will* be smacking things with it." It's still a bad excuse to pretend that standing around losing mp to perp costs justifies the weapon. If the pet is out, put it on a mob. If it is on a mob, you do NOT need regain.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

We get it, we really do. You need an excuse to give your LS to get you your staff without actually admitting "yeah, I *will* be smacking things with it." It's still a bad excuse to pretend that standing around losing mp to perp costs justifies the weapon. If the pet is out, put it on a mob. If it is on a mob, you do NOT need regain.

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I could simply say "This staff is pretty, this is the weapon I want lets go Linkshell!" and they'd help me. The fact that there is some worth to the weapon only helps. I've practically solo'd it in spare time anyway.

I use Summoner for 2 things, dicking around cause its fun which may include actually meleeing stuff! (I do this too yes, cap staff skill and everything) However I'm not going in guns blazing to fight an Abyssean Wyrm or a Chariot to feed it tp or force myself to need cures. Regain will build up enough tp to restore my mp (use the weapon skill from a distance) Making it more valuable than MM for the Summoner's MP cost. Pet Stays out, pet gets tp too, making its magic Bp's stronger.

It's a play style, not some radically obsessed summoner way of life.
While using Magic based atma's, an avatars physical damage is piss poor anyway. I might pull off 560 damage on Shuala while allowing shiva to melee in between blood pacts. That would be assuming roughly 7~9 attacks land in that time. That is the equivalent of 1 Swing of a great axe from a well equipt war on the same NM. Melee'ing is insignificant while in a group that has players to actually play the role of melee DD.

I appreciate summoner, I acknowledge that you enjoy playing a bit outside the box and believe strongly in its abilities using that methodology. That shouldn't be your focus and main strategy each time you play summoner though. Sometimes you aught to sit back and not die... feed tp... what ever reason I've mentioned. It's not a crime to cure your party members, haste the ninja, paralyna the DD's.

Please, next comment in response to this, enlighten us as to the true benefit of allowing your summoner to melee. Post some raw numbers and values to make us want to be upfront and in the fact of Orthrus poking him with the blunt end of our staff. I would love to participate in events using this manner of combat.

At least use a NM that's more likely to kill you than Orthrus. Unless you don't have a whm but then you wouldn't be on Smn in the first place. I already stated earlier, or at least in another thread, if it doesn't have dangerous auras/AoE attacks, why not melee?

If you guys are really all gung-ho about this "Avatars shouldn't melee during certain NMs" then why not do this?

Put VV/RR/AoA atmas on, and do old-school Avatar BP/Release methods.

Or put Beyond(or any other + elemental damage atma)/Ultimate/Hell's Guardian Atma on and BP/Release for magical damage.

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Originally Posted by Cett

Please, next comment in response to this, enlighten us as to the true benefit of allowing your summoner to melee.

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The DPS on the emp staff is only 4% less than the DPS on the emp GK. SAM gets better WS, better gear, and better stats, but SMN gets an avatar. SAM does more overall damage. SMN can buff and has much better survivability.

If you want numbers, go grab a magian trial staff and fight alongside your pet. Notice how each hit is more damage than the entire evening of "not meleeing." There are several of us who have killed thousands of mobs for our trials this way. Our weapons and gear are strong. We melee not because we want to, but because we can.

Your turn. What type of player are you trying to attract to this BP/retreat method?

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Originally Posted by Evilvivi

I dont feel like going through all the trouble of pointing out what is so wrong in this whole thread...but i'll just point out a litte fact on tp. If you are 5/5 on a merit BP thats 160% automatically. Then Emp +1 pants give 25% tp bonus. So we are at 185% tp. Now add in the 2.5 tp/tic from Caller's Pendant, within 45 seconds, you have added 112.5% tp, which brings us at 297% tp. Now, Given that your avatar should at least land one hit in that time and regain is still ticking while avatar charges fore BP, Sea Daughter is just a massive drag net.

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Am I the only one who noticed that he did 2.5 x 45 instead of 2.5 x 15 (45 seconds is 15 tics not 45 tics)

This being said I totally forgot to tally that in... and after I do tally that 37.5 TP in... sea daughter still wins by about 10 base damage, ASSUMING you let your pet melee with MM on.

So once again, SD > MM for a myrkr SMN.

Nice Find :D

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Originally Posted by Dallas

The DPS on the emp staff is only 4% less than the DPS on the emp GK. SAM gets better WS, better gear, and better stats, but SMN gets an avatar. SAM does more overall damage. SMN can buff and has much better survivability.

If you want numbers, go grab a magian trial staff and fight alongside your pet. Notice how each hit is more damage than the entire evening of "not meleeing." There are several of us who have killed thousands of mobs for our trials this way. Our weapons and gear are strong. We melee not because we want to, but because we can.

Your turn. What type of player are you trying to attract to this BP/retreat method?

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Any summoner in a group event of 12 or more person who are targeting Tier 2 or higher Notorious Monsters in zones such as Abyssea- Altepa, Abyssea - Graub, Abyssea - Ull. For the purpose of keeping up a consistent DOT and to assist their group through various means of support. While at the same time utilizing Myrkr effectively by avoiding the use of MM.

This was the original intent from the very beginning. If you feel that your Summoner can effectively and consistently deal damage in this respect to this class of HNM, given my conditions please... adhere to my previous post.. Give us raw numbers and prove that your method is a superior use of myrkr than mine.

Also since you don't wish to believe my claim that your friend has provided you false information, I've taken the initiative to complete the windurst wotg path to acquire this atma. I'm one fight away, maybe then you'll believe me because I too will have complete it :P

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Originally Posted by Orenwald

Am I the only one who noticed that he did 2.5 x 45 instead of 2.5 x 15 (45 seconds is 15 tics not 45 tics)

This being said I totally forgot to tally that in... and after I do tally that 37.5 TP in... sea daughter still wins by about 10 base damage, ASSUMING you let your pet melee with MM on.

So once again, SD > MM for a myrkr SMN.

Nice Find :D

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LOL! I was wondering if somebody would notice that mistake I made, I was tired when I posted it, but couldnt be bothered to go back and edit since nobody realized...

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I'm not particularly interested in whether you believe the Atma works or not. I take the word of the person who took the time to complete a mission line.

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Finished it!
Atma doesn't help you exceed beyond 45 seconds BP delay. Hope you believe me now cause I have it and took the time! ;D

Well I just swung my staff for more than 10 damage, so you've still got a problem. EDIT: the mob was Bennu, if it matters.