Pocket Moogle.

Oh don't get us wrong, clearly most of us think they're doing a better job than they have in years of actually doing stuff we ask for, that said. Crap replies are just as bad as no replies, I don't think it's too much to have an actual conversation where we might influence events as opposed to "That's a good suggestion/guess, we were already working on that." or "No plans."

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Minds can be changed. Technical limitations can be overcome.

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Sure, minds can be changed, and even the design vision, but unless you have the power to suspend the laws of physics, there's only so far you can go with any technical device, including the PS2.

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I'm not at all concerned about their feelings or their grand vision for the game, because they seem to have zero concern for ours. As long as their attitude comes off as "It's our game and we'll do what we want!" then I will keep responding with "It's our money so you'll do what we want."

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And this is the problem with the fanbase. We act like spoiled children sometimes when things don't go our way. We seem to forget that the SE staff have a specific vision and design for the game. The suggestions we make sometimes coincide with that design, some of that design does come from player feedback, and sometimes, the suggestions we make conflict with that design. So the SE development staff have to consider each idea and suggestion as to how it will affect their design.

And there's the concept of opportunity cost. For every job improvement, for everything that they implement, is time and money away from other ideas and improvements that SE could be making with the game. This is another consideration that SE has to make. It isn't that the ideas are bad necessarily, but it would cost far more time and money than SE is willing to spend in lieu of other things.

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That's kind of how the world works actually. It's called negotiation. We have a thing in common but widely disparate interests involving it. So we hash things out until we reach a state where we can all be mostly satisfied.

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Except, we're not really "negotiating". What we're really doing is acting like two or three year old children who throw a tantrum every time a parent says "no" to something. Maybe I'm being idealistic here, but I think we're supposed to be better than this. We should be doing a better job understanding where Square-Enix is going with this game, and come up with better suggestions. Now, I'll admit that SE could do a better job of communicating to us as to why they say no to something, or what their vision and goals are for this game, but that doesn't excuse us. We can do better, and we have every ability to control how we react to stuff like this.

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I guess they're better off not replying at all, but then there will be threads about they could at least reply.

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The problem is that SE can't win, as people will complain no matter what they do. They'll just complain that SE isn't communicating or being responsive, and if SE says no, they'll be asking to complain less. It's a lose-lose to SE.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

The problem is that SE can't win, as people will complain no matter what they do. They'll just complain that SE isn't communicating or being responsive, and if SE says no, they'll be asking to complain less. It's a lose-lose to SE.

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This line of thought implies that the only two options are saying no(without any reason given as to why) to the majority of ideas, or saying nothing at all. It entirely ignores any possibility of them explaining why the answer is no.

I'm not sure how anyone else feels about all of this, but to me repeating the same copy paste reply meaning "no" to nearly every thread is just as bad as saying nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Keyln

Sure, minds can be changed, and even the design vision, but unless you have the power to suspend the laws of physics, there's only so far you can go with any technical device, including the PS2.

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Well I'd argue it's their inefficient game engine limiting the PS2 more than the PS2 limiting their game, but yes there are technical limits. A summonable Moogle likely doesn't fall into that category.

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And this is the problem with the fanbase. We act like spoiled children sometimes when things don't go our way. We seem to forget that the SE staff have a specific vision and design for the game. The suggestions we make sometimes coincide with that design, some of that design does come from player feedback, and sometimes, the suggestions we make conflict with that design. So the SE development staff have to consider each idea and suggestion as to how it will affect their design.

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Sometimes they act like obstinate, arrogant old geezers. So, what? Customers are going to complain. They're professionals. They can deal with it. They should be able to see flaws in their own vision and be adaptable to meet the desires of the ones paying their bills. I totally understand that sometimes you just can't do something, but to say you won't simply because you don't want to? That doesn't fly in my line of work. Not sure why it's acceptable in theirs.

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And there's the concept of opportunity cost. For every job improvement, for everything that they implement, is time and money away from other ideas and improvements that SE could be making with the game. This is another consideration that SE has to make. It isn't that the ideas are bad necessarily, but it would cost far more time and money than SE is willing to spend in lieu of other things.

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It rarely seems to be about that though. It's more like "We could, but we just don't wanna. Don't make us do stuff."

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Except, we're not really "negotiating". What we're really doing is acting like two or three year old children who throw a tantrum every time a parent says "no" to something. Maybe I'm being idealistic here, but I think we're supposed to be better than this. We should be doing a better job understanding where Square-Enix is going with this game, and come up with better suggestions. Now, I'll admit that SE could do a better job of communicating to us as to why they say no to something, or what their vision and goals are for this game, but that doesn't excuse us. We can do better, and we have every ability to control how we react to stuff like this.

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Blind acceptance isn't synonymous with maturity.

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The problem is that SE can't win,

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It's not about winning or losing. Much like the within the game itself, this is supposed to be a cooperative enterprise. It's not us vs. them. We're all supposed to be on the same side of making FFXI a better game.

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as people will complain no matter what they do. They'll just complain that SE isn't communicating or being responsive, and if SE says no, they'll be asking to complain less. It's a lose-lose to SE.

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That's just how life is. Like I said, they're professionals. They should be fully prepared for it, and capable of using that criticism to better themselves and the user experience.

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Originally Posted by Xsilver

Would get complicated. People would go to fights with 5/5 of one ability, use it, then unmerit it and merit another JA to 5/5 and then pop that, before every hard battlefield and it would just be silly.

Now JOB POINTS should be able to be used at any time since those can't be lowered right?

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That would totally break the game right? Right?

Jesus...

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Well I'd argue it's their inefficient game engine limiting the PS2 more than the PS2 limiting their game, but yes there are technical limits. A summonable Moogle likely doesn't fall into that category.

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I didn't say that was the ONLY issue, only that was one issue. There are also other considerations, such as game design and balance, engine limitations, and other issues that need to be considered.

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Sometimes they act like obstinate, arrogant old geezers. So, what? Customers are going to complain. They're professionals. They can deal with it. They should be able to see flaws in their own vision and be adaptable to meet the desires of the ones paying their bills. I totally understand that sometimes you just can't do something, but to say you won't simply because you don't want to? That doesn't fly in my line of work. Not sure why it's acceptable in theirs.

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Because the customer ain't always right. What the customer wants might not be in the best interest of the game. If they don't want to do something, there's likely a good reason for it. We don't have all of the information, but Square-Enix does.

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Blind acceptance isn't synonymous with maturity.

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I didn't say that we should accept blindly what they say. What I said was that we should control our own reactions, and we should try to look at things from Square-Enix's point of view. THAT'S being mature. If they say no to something, we should be trying to do a better job of understanding why. Although SE could do a better job of communicating with us, that doesn't excuse our own behavior.

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It's not about winning or losing. Much like the within the game itself, this is supposed to be a cooperative enterprise. It's not us vs. them. We're all supposed to be on the same side of making FFXI a better game.

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You missed my point. My point is that people will complain no matter what Square-Enix does.

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That's just how life is. Like I said, they're professionals. They should be fully prepared for it, and capable of using that criticism to better themselves and the user experience.

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That's no excuse for our behavior, and that's no excuse for acting like spoiled brats. We can and should do better.

How Can PS2 Still be apart of FFXI... didn't they take care of that already?

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Originally Posted by Fenrirs_Takumi

How Can PS2 Still be apart of FFXI... didn't they take care of that already?

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PS2 is still a part of FFXI due to Japan, even if Adoulin wasn't released outside of Japan. The truth is, we're not likely to ever see FFXI completely apart from PS2.

And they'll never put in the effort required to free the PC and 360 game clients from the "PS2 Limitations" inherent within them.

Yea but even if ps2 dissapear, Xbox360, one day will reach it's limitation.