Gravity Nerf...

Unfortunately i cannot draw (i wish i can draw artwork), but i try to describe it

There is one party (pld,mnk,mnk,mnk,rng,whm) fighting on monster and rdm sitting on the bench waiting to get invited

BEFORE RDM NEW SPELL
PLD/WAR (focusing on to get mob attention)
MNK/WAR : {Haste}
MNK/WAR : Blindna! Blindna! Blindna
MNK/WAR (with red low hp) : Cure me plz...
RNG/NIN (enjoying range attack on mob)
WHM/RDM : Ok. Yes. Hang on. Wait plz

RDM/WHM dreaming "when i can get a invite in that party?"

AFTER RDM NEW SPELL patch
PLD/WAR : Distract the mob, i need to keep my hate
MNK/WAR : {Haste}
MNK/WAR : Blindna! Blindna! Blindna
MNK/WAR (with red low hp) : Cure me plz...
RNG/NIN : Flurry plz
WHM/RDM : #&$*

RDM/WHM : poor whm....

I think that situational will be more happen in the future.. :)

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Originally Posted by Tennotsukai

I feel this gravity nerf really sucks more for blu since we received a new gravity spell and not an evasion down spell. In fact, we have no decent evasion downs, not counting infrasonics.

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The only way to nerf gravity is to make the mob move faster with it on. I don't know why people keep insisting this is a nerf. Moving a minor evasion reduction that most people didn't even take advantage of for a new less resisted spell that has a larger reduction to evasion is not worth caring about. People only benefited from this. Gravity still makes mobs move slow, we have a better way of applying evasion down, and RDM becomes more appealing.

As for BLU can't say I would either ever have room to set set evasion down or stop my DPS in the face of having accuracy bonus on instead.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

The only way to nerf gravity is to make the mob move faster with it on. I don't know why people keep insisting this is a nerf. Moving a minor evasion reduction that most people didn't even take advantage of for a new less resisted spell that has a larger reduction to evasion is not worth caring about. People only benefited from this. Gravity still makes mobs move slow, we have a better way of applying evasion down, and RDM becomes more appealing.

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While I agree it's not a nerf to the job it is a nerf to the spell and effect. If the fact it had EVA Down as a bonus were so small a thing that no one cared or used it for such an effect then why bother to remove it in the first place? The fact of the matter is Gravity doesn't land on most high level content anyways and if someone can land it then there's 0 reason it shouldn't have kept it's EVA down properties it already had. To remove them now is stupid.

I agree that Gravity II changes is not a nerf. The spell was nerfed, but overall it's a better and easier evasion down. There was nothing that nerfed RDM this update. That would be ludicrous to think so. I think the spells are nice and I'm enjoying them so far. However, it doesn't stop me from giving constructive criticism, under this preconception of just being grateful RDM got anything.

The whole point of adding these new spells was to solidify RDM's job identity. I do not understand the reason why it was necessary to add Tier I accessibility to other classes with no repercussions or any other additions before it. My concern is that there is no penalty to /RDM and because of that, it weakens the job identity of RDM as a whole. Meaning there are a lot of situations that don't require RDMs abilities because it can be done by another job. Weaker yes, but they have their main job abilities to fall back on as well.

RDM now has RNG parties if the group is comfortable enough to not carry a WHM. However, no other class has to deal with their job defining abilities being so useful that it can negate bringing the job itself currently. Part of the issue of RDM identity is job/subjob balance. In my opinion either Enhancing Magic/Enfeebling Magic should scale better and Convert nerfed/locked out, or better/less negative option is to open up locked/nerfed support job options from other jobs like Afflatus, Yonin/Innin, Geomancy, Songs, etc.

If other jobs can use /RDM to a full extent, other jobs doing the same would help level the playing field on what main jobs bring to the table.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

While I agree it's not a nerf to the job it is a nerf to the spell and effect. If the fact it had EVA Down as a bonus were so small a thing that no one cared or used it for such an effect then why bother to remove it in the first place? The fact of the matter is Gravity doesn't land on most high level content anyways and if someone can land it then there's 0 reason it shouldn't have kept it's EVA down properties it already had. To remove them now is stupid.

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I assumed that they took the same debuff slot. That be a reason right?

Gravity was never really that difficult to land on difficult content anyways... Very Difficult is another story though, where Meva on mobs can be stupid high for ALL spells and a total pain to land without Stymie or Elemental Seal.

The problem with taking away Gravity's evasion down effect is that you lose a spell that could possibly land more easily than Distract on certain monsters (fire based, especially). And yes, this was effectively a nerf to Rdm because their Gravity II's -25 Evasion was nice enough to be noticeable and worthwhile, and Rdm needs all the love it can get right now. It's more of a slap to a face because we weren't told of this until the update actually hit. This was also a small nerf to MR and Rudra's (yes! my Brd is sour over this), where the Gravity was always a nice extra boon to essentially be able to give Acc+10 to your entire party through WSing and applying Gravity at the same time.

Also, you didn't need Enfeebling potency gear to enhance Gravity's Evasion down effect; it was static and doesn't depend on any dStat or potency gear. You need it however for Distract if you want to improve its potency, and for Rdm on harder content, this can pose to be a problem because they lose so much Macc from switching out their Body/Hands/Feet slots for these types of pieces that enhance Enfeebling magic. The Dev team really needs to push out reforged Emp armor already to help resolve this. And/or they should give Saboteur a significant Macc boost; that would help Rdm out immensely.

Finally, Gravity's evasion down effect would have stacked with Distract. So for Rdm, I don't see how you can't call this a nerf by them removing Rdm's Gravity II evasion down.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

I assumed that they took the same debuff slot. That be a reason right?

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You'd be wrong since EVA Down & Weight have stacked when applied via many various forms, there's no real reason to think that RDM's version couldn't work the same way.

I think we can all agree that this update actually buffs rdm. The Evasion Down from gravity was great when we had no other forms to access. I don't think losing it is a loss. The biggest loss I can think of is the memories of me needing it to solo VTs when leveling pre 75, I do not get the luck of ever being able to duplicate that, but even then at 35+ I have a better spell in its wake. So its not a loss.

The problem is is due to the fact it buffs /rdm as well. rdms role still hasn't changed. Maybe some risk takers will invite us to content as we can handle healing or other roles well. But we are still behind the cookie cutters and have nothing unique to bring to the table, hindering us.

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Originally Posted by Trangnai

I think we can all agree that this update actually buffs rdm.

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Exactly. I think most RDMs don't realise that the evasion down effect on gravity was holding RDM back. Gravity 2 couldn't have a better evasion down effect because of the weight effect, but RDM couldn't have a better eva down spell because it would stack with gravity's eva down.

By splitting eva down from grav, it allowed RDM to get a much more potent eva down spell. Heck, the job that lost out most here is SMN. 3 days ago, SMN had the most potent Eva down effect, and it stacked with Gravity 2. Now, RDM has an eva down that is more potent than grav 2 + Diamond Storm together.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

You'd be wrong since EVA Down & Weight have stacked when applied via many various forms, there's no real reason to think that RDM's version couldn't work the same way.

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Well then since that is out my last conclusion is they felt double evasion down would have been too imbalanced. With saboteur you can already get 100+ evasion down alone on Distract II. There are other sources of evasion down such as GEO and lolDNC they keep in mind when they do these things. Gravity II would have added another 40 to that too.

Do I agree with them if that was their logic? A little bit, but they could have just lowered gravitys evasion down by half on each spell.

Should anyone care it is gone? No.