EXP x2 feels just right for 2014, but even more's needed (looking at you, lvl. 50-75)

Maybe you're right, but also maybe people will take the fastest route possible, when possible, to Abyssea worm parties. Nothing will match it, and people will typically take the path of least resistance.

Having join the game quite a few years ago, I came up the hard way, everyone wanted my RDM, lvl'd Whm to sub level,it was tortuous as a BLM but there was a great solo guide out at the time and I made it to 75. BLU was a great job to solo up because alot of it was done getting spells (no one really wanted a BLU in a party and esp end game, I don't think they understood it). But and this is a big thing, you learned to play the job and you skilled up at the same time, you got the equipment for lvl 50's (AF), 75 (relic gear) then the endgame gear in sky, sea, limbus etc... and was so happy when Campaign started, those Die-namis runs where you lost 2 days worth of exp'ing very quickly on BLM 2 times a week, Campaign allowed at the time the fastest 2nd only to a Merit party (who wouldn't allow Blm's) to get exp.

I now have every job except the 2 new ones and 2 are 95ish (I just don't like them) to 99. Abyssea allowed this to happen, my skill levels sucked and I didn't really know one ability from another. So I concentrated on one job at a time for Aby like the all powerful NIN I went and got all my procs for red, blue and yellow which meant learning to play /dnc and /war, and getting all my red and blue procs helped on other weapons. I have Mnk as my main since Adoulin, Nin is hiding with my RDM in MH. I guess what I'm trying to say, it is a lot of fun having not to slave to 75 in the dunes and in the same breath, I miss the dunes parties then to the Jungle then to Quifim. The amount of time learning the skills and finesse necessary takes time and with help from things like squirmishes and WKR's and my friends it can be done.

It also helped with Nin to have a great mentor who would explain Nin to me (via Skype) as we fought, he was on NIN and I on whm or thf (my other abyssea job). But there are so many options now, I'm lvl'ing a mule from lvl 3 and having a blast, I got to 20 in one night just using the new Eminence quests.

I think they are getting to good place with the game it still needs work, based on the players we have to day. Older players don't have the time now they had when 17 or 18...now they are 28 with a partner/spouse, kids and a job but many still get on and play around rl issues. I really don't think the young people of today would put up with the grinding we did 8-11 years ago, I for one felt freedom when Abyssea came out. Adoulin there is time for me to accomplish something in an hour and a half when I drink my coffee in the morning before work. I can go at it on my days off or at night. If there is one thing I wish would steady up is the gear...I no sooner get good gear then better comes out, but if you look it, there is decent gear for everyone to obtain not just the crazy ones like me who use to do 2 dynas, 2 limbus, 2 sea runs, 2 sky runs etc each and every week years ago, I had one night off a week if I was lucky or get to bed at a reasonable time....and it never got me my W. Legs, lol.

EXP and the typical MMORPG grind isn't dying in this game. It's already at home in bed, passed away in its sleep.

After Abyssea upheaved the entire prior system, we are left with this aftermath. You have two options as a new player. Solo mostly to 99 with the tools available (Fields/Grounds of Valor, Trust, Records of Eminence) or Abyssea leech (which is what you'll be doing as you won't start out with cruor for keys). Both of these are pretty absurd for a new player starting out. Resistance to this way of thinking is holding on to a time when the game flourished a lot more and it was a lot easier to find groups in an enjoyable casual setting. Which is also the other side that "against change" players forget.

Looking at a new player. The current system expects them to go through a lot of research into learning player-based workarounds like Abyssea leeching just to grind up. Which most of it isn't really gratifying and a good sense of progression. They don't learn the job they are playing any more than if they leveled up faster. There is also the hurdle of how boring it is to do so much initial research and work versus exploration and gradual learning. Which can be off-putting and cause some to quit just because none of what is described as our current player-expected leveling system is really a MMORPG setting.

I don't think as drastically as level 99 should be handed on a silver platter but I do agree that EXP required per level is due to change. But I believe that's only part of a solution. Records of Eminence and Trust are great systems they have implemented. I think if they take the time to rework the initial character introduction quests (adventurer coupon) to include these two systems after it. It would encourage players to explore more about their job and feel a sense of progression through learning the game.

Records of Eminence tutorial section could be expanded to include:

• Obtain a linkpearl.
• Job specific goals. (Example: Corsair can ask you to roll 11 x amount of times to learn how to work with the probability of busting and learning how 11 grants you a bonus to Phantom Roll/Bust)
• Exploration goals. (Visiting an area to gain exp, a lot of modern MMO's do this to encourage exploration of the world)
• Obtaining a chocobo license. (Seeing as soon as you visit Jeuno you could really just touch a Home Point)
• Participation in active events. (Beseiged, Campaign)
• More level-sync or party goals.

Grinding/progression doesn't need to go away entirely. It just needs to be renewed. Honestly in my personal opinion, I think they should still impose a level cap on Abyssea to 75 and remove the ability to alliance and do FoV/GoV pages. It would piss off a lot of current players off but it would also give new players someone to interact with. And with new systems to alleviate EXP, it wouldn't be all that bad in my opinion.

We can't complain that new players have it hard and no one is joining the game, yet hold to the ideals that we as veterans should have it easier (via afking in Abyssea/FoV/GoV).

Another thing that would help new players today would be an edit to the original CSs you get when you start. Throwing in some dialog that explains where the gate helper NPCs are, the ones who tell you about crafting, food, WSs, those guys, an explanation of them and their pos would be awesome. At the same time, Records should be explained by the gate helpers, and at the end of the gate helper 'quests' they should tell you about Trust, and the location for the NPC to start Trust in that city.

Okay OP, because I like to solo, I took my WHM 50 out to Zi'Tah just to see how fast or slow EXP went on one of the hardest jobs to solo effectively. I went from Lv50 to 51 (7,800 EXP) in about 45 minutes. I did this without any pages or book buffs, without any additional NPC's, and without any type of EXP boosting. I was able to do this for many reasons:

- All appropriate skills are capped.
- My gear is appropriate.
- I use food.
- I use an appropriate subjob.
- I know where to best camp for my setup.

Now, say I did everything I could to max EXP/hr, and I suppose I could have gotten that level in about 20min or less. You realize if we go any faster, we'd potentially have to carry 2-3 weapons and maybe even 2-3 sets of gear on our person just to suffice the massive level gaps we'd be producing in such a short time.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Okay OP, because I like to solo, I took my WHM 50 out to Zi'Tah just to see how fast or slow EXP went on one of the hardest jobs to solo effectively. I went from Lv50 to 51 (7,800 EXP) in about 45 minutes. I did this without any pages or book buffs, without any additional NPC's, and without any type of EXP boosting. I was able to do this for many reasons:

- All appropriate skills are capped.
- My gear is appropriate.
- I use food.
- I use an appropriate subjob.
- I know where to best camp for my setup.

Now, say I did everything I could to max EXP/hr, and I suppose I could have gotten that level in about 20min or less. You realize if we go any faster, we'd potentially have to carry 2-3 weapons and maybe even 2-3 sets of gear on our person just to suffice the massive level gaps we'd be producing in such a short time.

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If you took your WHM out recently you're getting Double EXP campaign, so you would be getting an EXP boost. For a new player, all your skills are not likely capped, especially on WHM soloing. You would never cure or enfeeble yourself enough to see a capped rate the higher you go (especially over 250). Also new players won't always know where the best camps are now. This is something that's learned by people who solo a lot through trial and error. You like to solo so this probably isn't detrimental to you. However, when you're looking at it from a generic outside just got here perspective. It can be really boring, lonely and confusing for most new players who didn't join a game to be isolated for a prolonged time.

Even when EXP parties were in their prime, lots of players did not bring multiple sets of gear even though they were making quick progress. Is it useful and efficient? Yes. Necessary? No. The game is closing on 12 years old. The community of new players is small and the EXP grind is heavy. Which is why most have in the past few years just grinded jobs in Abyssea as keyers/leechers. New players were encouraged to do so as well as veteran players. And this was before the server decline when there were more players to play with.

While there will always be some solo players who would like to preserve the grind because they like to solo. This however discourages a lot of new players to join who are forced into learn to enjoy solo grinding or find a way to join Abyssea to leech (no keys yet). I think the solo community has tons of things to enjoy soloing in this game other than EXP. Opening this up however will alleviate what makes this unattractive to newer players who enter a game to only see most of them are already at cap on multiple jobs. I've seen new players discouraged that they did all this hard grinding because they didn't want to leech, only to find out they didn't level one of the handful of jobs desired. So to get gear for the job they love, they have to go back and do the solo grind again or drop their morals to leech exp.

Grinding/progression doesn't need to go away entirely. It just needs to be set in a more attractive manner befitting a group-oriented game that's 12 years old and not retaining new subscribers.

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

Snip.

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Regarding your first sentence, let me reiterate: I didn't self-apply any boosting effects of any sort outside of food.

I think the overwhelming point regarding a lot of players new and old is that they're just not bothered to put any effort into this 12 year old game. Trial and error is how you learn; it's how I learned, and if I didn't explore and do a little research I wouldn't know. If I didn't know, I asked my Linkshell or friends for advice.

Many times I've seen new players quit when they realized that they would have to level a second job from Lv1 as a subjob. That was unfathomable to them. I recently had a newbie Lv99 THF spamming the orcs in Monastic Cavern for money. When I came back to the game last year after a 3 year break, I had to basically re-learn everything from the beginning. Of course I knew the basics, but which jobs were favorable, which camps to grind and what makes money... all of that I had to research and learn again.

Even now I'm standing in town yelling for gear for my WHM. I'm willing to and it does work, but you have to be persistent and patient. Maybe I should write a newbie's guide to FFXI 2014...

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Maybe I should write a newbie's guide to FFXI 2014...

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I think thats an excellent idea. I've played for 6 years straight every day but always with a limited time, the last 2 years i've been on and off though, play two months, quit two months. Every time I pick up the game I feel lost, i get behind with the content and have a hard time picking up the thread.
Over the years SE has added so much content that i cant tell where the head is and where the tail, I can only imagine what a fresh green leaf thinks when they pick up this game.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Maybe I should write a newbie's guide to FFXI 2014...

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You should, because if you want people to play to your standards then you need to put forth some effort to help them get there. That's the problem with veteran players these days. They want skilled playmates handed to them for free. They're lazy, jaded, and have unrealistic expectations. They've forgotten about the veterans and fellow players who helped them get where they are. It's an MMORPG. If you want people to play the game with, then YOU need to go play the game with them.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

You should, because if you want people to play to your standards then you need to put forth some effort to help them get there. That's the problem with veteran players these days. They want skilled playmates handed to them for free. They're lazy, jaded, and have unrealistic expectations. They've forgotten about the veterans and fellow players who helped them get where they are. It's an MMORPG. If you want people to play the game with, then YOU need to go play the game with them.

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Sorry? I help every person new and old that I possibly can - especially newbies. A lazy spirit wouldn't even entertain the idea of taking their time out to write a guide to help others. On the other hand, I wasn't referring to needing a hand with a mission/quest/NM. I was talking about general knowledge of the game. That is something that is hard to explain and often can't be taught in the degree it needs to be learned through experience and will to venture out on their own.