Temper (A request)

That's the point, its NOT just another backline job...it never was. at 75, (when RDM still could use competitive dd gear) a good RDM could keep up with the light DDs like Thf and DNC, and if they put out real effort could (rather quickly at times) pull hate from plds. Hell, at 75 we were the only NM Soloist of any note. and not because we could kite...personally at 75 i face tanked/soloed all the base avatars and Ash Dragon. since then, we have slowly slid from a competitive light dd to the bottom of the dmg barrel.And SE has done basically nothing to stem this backslide... since lvl 80 SE has just about dropped support for DDRDM. but what really pisses me off is that SE refuses to at least decide what they want from RDM... like in gear, no Athos, no Thaumas, yet we can use Kudzu. this lackluster half-***ed gear selection is retarded. Either let us use light armor, or just strip Dagger and sword skill. Honestly I'd be happy either way.

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Originally Posted by Numquam

I don't get why people want RDM to melee? I mean, it is just another backline job.

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But its not, if you take away RDM's melee power you get a SCH who has Refresh instead of Sublimation, Enfeebling, weaker heals, weaker nukes, some self buffs, less unique party buffs(Phalanx II), and Convert. The sad part is RDM does not really even have all of that compared to SCH because SCH's best sub is RDM, meaning it takes away RDM's only unique party buff because of Accession, Convert, and all but 2 non-merit Enfeebling spells. So RDM's key differences in that case become... Refresh, weaker healing, weaker nukes, some self buffs, merit Enfeebling, Addle, Gravity II, and no JAs that really help its magic besides composure which is great but beaten on other players even with all +duration gear when you count in SCH's Perpetuance. In essence even if we sub SCH we gain a couple spells and their Arts but lack real stratagem use which means we are still weaker than SCH is just about every possible way.

Making us a back line job only would leave us as just a gimp version of SCH, and any attempt to make our magic side stronger is basically stepping on SCH's toes unless its via Enhancing or Enfeebling. Enfeebling is great except if its of any great use like Amnesia or such it will become impossible to land, look at the new NMs and Silence for example, it is possible to land Silence on them, I have done it, but even if you do, even with Elemental seal it lasts about 5~10 seconds and wears instantly, Amnesia would do the same, so the spell is gimped. Enhancing magic is either going to be not enough to invite the job or its going to do nothing but bring back buff cycling, we can not hit 500 Enhancing Magic skill and have full duration gear, the best we can do it 2 pieces of AF3+2 with duration Feet & Back, so we still are cycling it quite a bit.

I myself do not think that buffing our magic side is needed, I think we have exactly what we need for it, we have the best nuking gear, a good tier trait for it, best recast times, T4s, I think were going good on that, and healing, well you can cap Cure Potency with just 5 pieces of gear, 7 if you lack Iaso Head, and none of it includes your weapon, which effects the next part. Melee is in need of assistance, while we can cure well, and we can nuke well, our melee is very sub-par because we are left off of almost any gear of real use for it which drags us down a ton.

Most of these people just want to melee on the RDM for attention (*cough* ^ *cough*). I guarantee you if RDM melee were to get considerably buffed, these people would stop playing RDM and go play PUP or some other job that people don't want in their party.
Though honestly it's always like this in every game with the jack of all trades classes, the people that play them don't appreciate all of the parts of their class and therefore claim to be underpowered, never understanding the reason their class doesn't get 'fixed' is because gameplay balance is determined by 'pros' (AKA the people who are actually good [the best] at the game). People knew what they were getting into when they decided to play a jack of all trades class (never being the best at anything), yet you continually see posts asking for RDM to be "as good at melee as a WAR or MNK" or "as good at nuking as a BLM."

It's astounding. Really.

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Originally Posted by Rooj

Most of these people just want to melee on the RDM for attention (*cough* ^ *cough*). I guarantee you if RDM melee were to get considerably buffed, these people would stop playing RDM and go play PUP or some other job that people don't want in their party.

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You don't know me or my personality or why I play the job, I play RDM because I like the job, I have put a lot of work into the job, and I can show you all of that work if you really want me to.

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yet you continually see posts asking for RDM to be "as good at melee as a WAR or MNK" or "as good at nuking as a BLM."

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Show me one post where anyone has ever asked that, in the entirety of this forum.

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It's astounding. Really.

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How ignorant people are in their posts? I agree, it is astounding.

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Originally Posted by Damane

if you want to stand on the front go lvl a melee job.

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And if you want to curebot your way to success go level WHM. If you want to spam nukes go level BLM.

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if you want a melee/mage hybrid job go lvl BLU.

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Why settle for a cheap imitation when the original and genuine article can be fixed to meet the standard?

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Originally Posted by Tassidaru

personally at 75 i face tanked/soloed all the base avatars and Ash Dragon

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That's not saying much, seeing that the only thing that made Avatar face-tanking possible was Utsusemi and RDM's access to fast cast.

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And SE has done basically nothing to stem this backslide. since lvl 80 SE has just about dropped support for DDRDM, but what really pisses me off is that SE refuses to at least decide what they want from RDM. like in gear, no Athos, no Thaumas, yet we can use Kudzu. this lackluster half-***ed gear selection is retarded. Either let us use light armor, or just strip Dagger and sword skill. Honestly I'd be happy either way.

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That would at least put the issue to rest.

I'd tack on the dev's tendency of putting RDM melee pieces in places that are entirely unreasonable for the average player. I'm still annoyed at the fleuret from Abyssea dropping from the most annoying of the zone bosses as opposed to a "popular" boss like Rani. Kudzu coming from Voidwatch (already an event with a crappy reward system), and on a boss with a bad gimmick to boot. Crap like the Dux set (because we need -PDT and +Enmity...) also fall in this category and compliment your complaints.

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Originally Posted by Rooj

People knew what they were getting into when they decided to play a jack of all trades class

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I'll paste something I said a while back on this very topic:

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For the longest time, hybrids/jack of all trades would get shafted into mundane roles that ended up being "required" yet very unpopular. It was common to draw in people using aesthetics and class concepts (pimp-hat-wearing magic fencer in the case of RDM, gambling pirate with a gun in the case of COR), only to find out by level cap that your role in endgame was not what you signed up for. Incidentally, some would just put up with that because they'd already invested time on the character and found some comfort in the fact their "role" was unpopular enough that they would not wait as long for a group compared to classes that filled other roles. Others chose to voice their displeasure at being bait-and-switched. The end-result has been 50-50, with some developers choosing to listen to their players and try to make them happy while others choose to stay in their castle in the clouds.

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This was taken from a discussion on hybrid design after someone started spazzing over the mythical hybrid apocalypse where hybrids being competent at their multiple roles somehow made the universe explode and force all to hide their kids and their wives.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

You don't know me or my personality or why I play the job

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Yes, it's hard to know anything about someone who has over 3,000 posts. Good grief.

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Originally Posted by Rooj

Yes, it's hard to know anything about someone who has over 3,000 posts. Good grief.

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Yeah, cause those 3,000 posts explain why I play my job. Thankfully in my 3,000 posts I made relevant posts rather than making baseless statements like...

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Originally Posted by Rooj

Most of these people just want to melee on the RDM for attention (*cough* ^ *cough*). I guarantee you if RDM melee were to get considerably buffed, these people would stop playing RDM and go play PUP or some other job that people don't want in their party.

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If even ONE of the ridiculous changes you suggest ever get implemented to RDM, players like myself will be so overpowered there won't even be a reason for me to play with other people.

Not quite sure what you're doing wrong when you play.

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Originally Posted by Rooj

If even ONE of the ridiculous changes you suggest ever get implemented to RDM, players like myself will be so overpowered there won't even be a reason for me to play with other people.

Not quite sure what you're doing wrong when you play.

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Wrong? That's funny, because by most people I know or have ever talked to I am regarded as one of the best RDMs on Phoenix, and have been invited to the top linkshells for that reason, I am doing nothing wrong. The jobs melee damage is simply behind, while its magic side is right where it should be, go pick up a DPS sheet for any job really, put them in optimum gear, then put RDM in optimum gear, you can see the DPS differences easily, and how far behind we are from even the weakest of jobs. Here are some general near optimum sets for you to throw in there real quick for RDM...

TP
Exca/Mand/----/Astr
Zelu/Ranc/Brut/Supp
Kudz/Feas/Raja/Mars
Athe/Pyae/Calm/Ghad

TP-Acc
Exca/Bura/----/Astr
Bend/Ranc/Brut/Supp
Shed/Breg/Raja/Mars
Leta/Dyna/Rube/Ghad

KoR
Exca/Mand/----/Cher
Mori/Lite/Brut/Vulc
Mori/Heaf/Stri/Aqua
Athe/Pros/Rube/Feas

Req
Exca/Mand/----/Orei
Naht/Soil/Brut/Moon
Mori/Bokw/Raja/Aqua
Athe/Soil/Rube/Feas

Let me know if you can get this to come close (around 10% or so) to any jobs optimum DD sets that are posted on the AH.com Forums, inside of their own respective sheets. I will be more than glad if you succeed, if you fail, then you are incorrect in stating RDM would be overpowered with my adjustments, because they are just as easy to test in those sheets and come out with RDM being stronger, but not so much so that its game breaking.

Oh, so what's REALLY going on here is that you just want to be overpowered, that is if you are in fact "the best Red Mage on Phoenix."

You will not, and should not, ever be able to reach even 75% of the melee capability of any melee based job. Please stop trying, you are wasting your time, and how on earth you don't even KNOW you're wasting your time AND WHY is beyond me.

Just another typical MMOer, who wants to be king of the world. You're such a common occurrence these days.
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