Dual-wield for cor

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Originally Posted by Afania

Yes used SV Madrigalx1 Min x3(BRD x2) like aways, but this fight already been using SV Madrigal for ages, it's not like we suddenly changed BRD buff just so that COR can DD. I also used hunters on myself. I'd imagine after embrava nerf this probably need empy BRD to work well though, not enough song slot with march ;<

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Not everyone uses SV Madrigal for VW across the board, I just wanted to know if my suspicion was correct. No SV Madrigal means you're either eating sushi or keeping Hunter's on you.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

You said to farm pop sets. They then have 3 days to swap jobs back to COR, that should be enough.

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As in the Shining fragment which is part of the pop set for Arch-Ultima or the Glossy fragment for Arch-Omega... Again this isn't about how the player themselves would be most efficient it's how the job could work if they were already there.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

If I was in a group doing dyna for exp with a cor and he just stood there with his thumb up his arse between rolls, I'd boot him. Get your sword/dagger out and join in, since most cors complain about how much it costs for cards/bullets.

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So then if a COR chose to use ammo/cards for TP instead of daggers you wouldn't give a crap? Hopefully now you get the point.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

As in the Shining fragment which is part of the pop set for Arch-Ultima or the Glossy fragment for Arch-Omega... Again this isn't about how the player themselves would be most efficient it's how the job could work if they were already there.

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These fights were disappointingly easy. Our group did both fights with ~12 people thinking we were probably going to get raped without a full alliance, but we cleared each zone very fast ~15 mins iirc, and half the mobs died before they even got a TP move off. Only 1 hard mob was the (eye I think) NM with gaze death move that he used as soon as puller agro'd. Only 2 of us saw it coming and turned, the rest were still charging it down lol. No reason a COR couldn't melee these mobs at all. DW as well as /war would of course help, but I don't see this as reason enough to get it.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

So then if a COR chose to use ammo/cards for TP instead of daggers you wouldn't give a crap?

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nope.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Hopefully now you get the point.

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I actually agreed with what you were saying with regards to whether or not COR should get DW or not (it shouldn't). It's just that your reasoning as to why it shouldn't get it was lame. "it's not worth it" isn't a valid reason. It's not at all what the job is about, and the person who said it's part of the lore of the job is an idiot imo.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

These fights were disappointingly easy. Our group did both fights with ~12 people thinking we were probably going to get raped without a full alliance, but we cleared each zone very fast ~15 mins iirc, and half the mobs died before they even got a TP move off. Only 1 hard mob was the (eye I think) NM with gaze death move that he used as soon as puller agro'd. Only 2 of us saw it coming and turned, the rest were still charging it down lol. No reason a COR couldn't melee these mobs at all. DW as well as /war would of course help, but I don't see this as reason enough to get it.

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So it would be viable.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

I actually agreed with what you were saying with regards to whether or not COR should get DW or not (it shouldn't). It's just that your reasoning as to why it shouldn't get it was lame. "it's not worth it" isn't a valid reason. It's not at all what the job is about, and the person who said it's part of the lore of the job is an idiot imo.

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Sorry that sentence was in relation to the Dynamis question. You talked about EXP in dynamis as if it was something worth worrying about, when I said "who gives a crap".

If COR got DW you'd get 3 damage boost to WS over Fencer. Now do you honestly believe something like DW would be given without "balance" nerfs? I don't, which is why it wouldn't be worth it.

But it doesn't really matter it's all opinions and despite what SE says I doubt any of our suggestions are listened to. They just post on ones that got lucky and happen to match with what they were planning so it looks like they actually listen.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Not everyone uses SV Madrigal for VW across the board, I just wanted to know if my suspicion was correct. No SV Madrigal means you're either eating sushi or keeping Hunter's on you.

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Ppl use SV Madrigal on watcher simply because watcher has highest evasion if I understand correctly. Other VW with acc problem are probably higher tier ones such as rex/Ig-Alima and you're better off not meleeing on rex already. (Not sure if melee/last stand on Ig-Alima is better or not as I never tried, but Rex is WF with a staff NM)

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Originally Posted by Zagen

So then if a COR chose to use ammo/cards for TP instead of daggers you wouldn't give a crap? Hopefully now you get the point.

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Actually I would XD
It's doing less dmg with A LOT more gil spend, and not using his/her brain to think. A lot of ppl never try to find out optimal way to deal dmg on this job, look at 10000 players WF with a staff on qilin when last stand or even exen with 2x dagger or slug shot does more dmg.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Actually I would XD
It's doing less dmg with A LOT more gil spend, and not using his/her brain to think. A lot of ppl never try to find out optimal way to deal dmg on this job, look at 10000 players WF with a staff on qilin when last stand or even exen with 2x dagger or slug shot does more dmg.

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But why does that matter? Lower damage is irrelevant when without the COR you'd hit 20k without a problem. Remember I'm talking about Dynamis EXP here. The only time I'd care is if it's a small enough group where damage efficiency is a factor on hitting 20k exp.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

But why does that matter? Lower damage is irrelevant when without the COR you'd hit 20k without a problem. Remember I'm talking about Dynamis EXP here. The only time I'd care is if it's a small enough group where damage efficiency is a factor on hitting 20k exp.

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By that extend I can say spamming WF with a staff on Qilin doesn't matter cuz I can still kill the NM without the COR, and ally can still kill it without a problem. And to extend it even more, I can say that any job without gear swapping doesn't matter, because I can still kill X and Y or Z with those players not gear swapping on all jobs.

Honestly though, unless that person doesn't have proper dagger skill/gear, I can never understand the logic to spend more gil and deal less dmg.

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Originally Posted by Afania

By that extend I can say spamming WF with a staff on Qilin doesn't matter cuz I can still kill the NM without the COR, and ally can still kill it without a problem. And to extend it even more, I can say that any job without gear swapping doesn't matter, because I can still kill X and Y or Z with those players not gear swapping on all jobs.

Honestly though, unless that person doesn't have proper dagger skill/gear, I can never understand the logic to spend more gil and deal less dmg.

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You're right the CORs who spam Wildfire on Quilin are comparable or even the CORs in shout groups who think their job stops at buffs and if COR Ability is a proc.

There isn't supposed to be a logical rational behind it, the point is that regardless of which choice is made the goal is still accomplished. Kinda like having or not having native DW doesn't make or break COR like it does for jobs that have DW now.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

But why does that matter? Lower damage is irrelevant when without the COR you'd hit 20k without a problem. Remember I'm talking about Dynamis EXP here. The only time I'd care is if it's a small enough group where damage efficiency is a factor on hitting 20k exp.

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I think 20k exp depends on much more, like whether or not you are using exp rings, how many in your group, and what jobs they are (can get some bizarre combinations when everyone's there just to get exp for a trial).

Semantics aside, I think every job should get a native Dual Wield; everybody's got a use for it, outside of just damage.

A "Dual Wield 0" across the board for all jobs, save for the "Dual Wield specialists" DNC, THF, and NIN, which would get the higher, delay reducing tiers.

I would just give DW2 (15%) to all 1H jobs. DWIII (25%) from /NIN is still better and the DW specialized jobs get much higher then that anyway.