Summoning magic skill-ups and the rate of which we are getting them.

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Originally Posted by Romulis

oh no you cant leave that out... i partied to level my smn to 75 and still got the cap not long after i hit 75.

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Even in the old days I find this extremely hard to believe.

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Originally Posted by Romulis

i leeched from 75-95 because well.... i was lazy and guess what?? im not even close to being recapped.

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If you don't skill up your skills stay low? Very interesting. But so not the point.

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Originally Posted by Romulis

deal with it, yes its semi slow but as we all know the more ya play it the more the skill will go up.

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Naturally, and again, so not the point. If you only got 1 skill per 24h play time, "the more ya play it the more the skill will go up" would still apply. Would that be acceptable to you, though?

As was said (twice) before, firstly, this does not apply anymore, and secondly, even if it did, it would not be an acceptable solution. Every other skill goes up with a decent pacing, except for this and Enhancing Magic. There is no reason why other skills were adjusted that doesn't apply to this situation as well.

Based on people's reactions against this proposal, it seems to me that most people who don't want it to change simply think that it doesn't apply to them anymore, and if they made it somehow, other people shouldn't complain and just accept that it's something SMN must go through, for no particular reason. And based on that, I find this sums it up quite well:

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

[..] we need to stop treating Skilling up like some glorious right of passage. In reality, its a terrible grind and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Your entire argument is that you can compensate for the shortcoming in skill by doing certain things, and while that's mostly true, that argument in itself acknowledges that there is a shortcoming with lacking skill. All the things you said you can do to make up for it means you can't put that time and MP into good use outside of keeping buffs up. And no, even with 500 MP Siphon you can run out of MP even if you only spam Blood Pact: Rage, which you'll find out if you ever do trials. Skill makes a significant difference for SMN, both in solo and especially in group situations (good luck landing Shock Squall on endgame content with anything less than 400 skill).

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My argument is that outside siphon and buff duration, which yes there is a shortcoming to having low skill with but can be compensated for with merits/gear/sub, summoning magic is pretty useless, smn has it easy compared to other jobs, a WAR with 100 GA skill would be ashamed to show his face until his highest weaponskill is no longer armour break, so would a blm who's highest T5 nuke does 1k dmg, or a rdm who's every enfeeble bounces off and phalanx is relying on the base damage reduction for any potency at all. None of these things are a problem for SMN you can still DD with practically the same efficiency as a capped SMN, you don't gain BP's based on skill and I've honestly never seen anyone say "if only our SMN had capped his skills!!!!" My point is SMN can still take part in things with low skill other jobs would be ashamed to go to. You might not be able to do legion due to acc issues but practically any other content is up for grabs for SMN. So you can do pretty much anything and get skill ups while you do it cause it doesn't contribute much outside buffs and siphon.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Leave this debate out of here please, don't need to ruin another thread with that garbage. This is entirely unrelated to EXP gain. Skilling up Summoning Magic is provably much slower than anything else, only Enhancing Magic is even in the same class as it. And soloing SMN to 99 is not an acceptable solution, even if it would cap your skill (which is false).

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No, it won't leave you capped, but it will leave you a hell of a lot higher than 150/417. Particularly if some of your time is spent un-synced on books where you have skill-up prowesses. A thing I usually did if I WAS synced, is at the end of each party, go kill some stuff around my level to get the skill ups while I had the prowess.

I don't disagree that summoning magic is difficult to skill up, but it's a lot better than it used to be. I was capped at 75 (before the skillups were added from rage/ward usage, and before smn skill did anything apart from interrupt rate) and I'm STILL uncapped at 99 despite not leeching a single exp point. This is primarily due to lots of WoE before they added skillups in there.

It ain't guard... but yeah it sucks too.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

[..]

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What you said is basically that it matters aside from content that doesn't matter. Which is accurate, but doesn't really help to make your point.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

No, it won't leave you capped, but it will leave you a hell of a lot higher than 150/417.

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Higher, possibly (not convinced), "hell of a lot higher" not really (unless by that you mean 200). And again, it's not an acceptable solution having to waste weeks on trivial grinding content to not be excluded from endgame events because you can't land any debuffs, your buffs don't last for more than a minute and you can't manage your MP pool.

I duo'd/trio'd SMN to 99 and my skill isn't over 300, something does need to be changed, putting aside the pointless arguments about leeching and the effectiveness of skill.

I agree, SMN skill is slow to skill up. I managed to cap mine doing a few SMN staff trials and doing Walk of Echoes (once skill ups came back) every chance I got.

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Originally Posted by Nawesemo

It ain't guard... but yeah it sucks too.

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But that doesn't make any sense. Guard is easy to skill up now, and you get a significant amount of guard skillups doing regular content. I've played smn more than I have played mnk, yet my guard skill is way higher than my summoning skill.

Guard and parry is a perfect example of SE boosting skillup rates of some skills by a huge amount, while at the same time not caring at all about some of the other skillup rates (summoning and enhancing).

After smn fighting 6 Bukhis, and getting all of 1.2 skill ups, even with the elusive magic gain earring, I call bs on the smn gain rate. I think I will be forever stuck @ 306.

Hey, that means you just need 600 solo bukhis kills on smn to cap. It must be working as intended!