regardinf TH - unbalanced pet jobs

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Originally Posted by Zumi

TH is a horrible concept anyway they should just get rid of it all together. Needing to bring a certain job to increase drop rate just ends up being a pain.

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Take away TH and THF would iterally be useless. Less solo ability than DNC, less DD capability than any other DD. The only thing it would bring to the table is an enmity control function that hasn't been relevant to the game since 2005. Might as well just delete it from the game.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Take away TH and THF would iterally be useless. Less solo ability than DNC, less DD capability than any other DD. The only thing it would bring to the table is an enmity control function that hasn't been relevant to the game since 2005. Might as well just delete it from the game.

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Why delete it? Why not just fix the job to be actually worthwhile without TH?

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

The point is... every other Job besides THF or RNG has to sub THF for TH or equip items that garant TH while to get back to the topic.
#1 BST got a bunch of abilities that let the pet tank while he can just sit back and watch.
#2 Those pets are nearly immortal
#3 BST doesn't have to sacrifice anything for TH cause his tanking pet has a natural TH

And #1 - #3 is an unfair advantage over every other petjob and other non petjob.

PS: I play PUP, DRG, SMN, BSR, WAR, THF and DNC and it's obvious that BST is atm the best choice (not to say an exploit) for tanking and geting better drops due TH.

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I cry horse shit on this, like many others here. I have every job with TH at 99 now (not unlike alot of other players). Do I want TH on my Auto? No, unless they add a thf frame. My pup does not need TH, I don't want to have to gear it for TH, Pup has the best assortment of ways to play of all my pets as it can handle both physical and magic damage, and deal both as well, i choose the auto based on what I'm after, and if I want to farm I go pup/thf with either the rdm or whm autos, or any other frame if I bring the NPC out. Let me make this perfectly clear I DO NOT WANT TH ON MY AUTO.

#1 smn just stands back and watches their pet, issuing the occasional command (and smn, I know this isn't accurate, but i'm responding to the quote here), should we nerf them too? oh, I usually melee with my pet too, unless I'm doing NMs in Aby, too boring otherwise.
#2 yes, pets are nearly immortal, if the bst has gearred for it... which puts them on par with every other job in the game as dumbed down as it is now.
#3 You might use Hippo and Ladybug for tanking, I don't. They are my TH and farming pets, if I'm aiming specifically at tanking on bst I'm using something else, like sheep or turtle or whatever is strong vs. the specific prey i'm after (remember the bst progression chart? stuff still works).

In point of fact, my current favorite solo job is pup, since the pupdate it has more all-around functionality/utility than my bst, and it makes me use my head a bit more, making play a bit more engaging. I've always chosen my beast pets with alot of care, instead of just defaulting to 1, I use the 2 thief pets to farm, and against anything that is light or wind spam happy respectively, otherwise I find the other jugs to be better outside those circumstances. If I default to any jug it's our current Mandy... because he's dirt cheap. I DO support keeping TH on my jug pets, when I want to farm on beast I like having it.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Why delete it? Why not just fix the job to be actually worthwhile without TH?

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^ This. Why not get rid of TH and make thf a decent DD like almost every single other mmo in the universe that has a thf or rogue type job.

I had a realization the other night, SE puts entirely too much effort into trying to make each job as unique as possible. I actually many of the problems in the game on this. If you look at other MMO's out there, DD means DD. In FFXI DD means sam. Or war. Or mnk. Or whatever the flavor of the month happens to be. I feel like SE needs to spend a little less time worrying about preserving the uniqueness of each job and worry more about closing the gap and creating a little equality. That whole balance farce they keep yammering on about.

OP obviously has no idea how BST works.... or how Treasure Hunter works ............ or how the game is played >.>

It's interesting how a legitimate statement on how broken BST and it's pets (wow - pets have jobs, I'll tell my hampster to earn more money ;p ) in compared with other jobs are.

As I mentioned before I do play PUP, DRG, BST, THF, DNC ans WAR and I do understand the concept of every job named before. And that's the point in case of TH and tanking BST is the best job. Even DNC/THF or what ever combo you want to use will loose caues you'r out of options.

#1 In case you want to tank, you won't deal damage so the fight will last forever
#2 If you want to deal damage, you can't tank or you have to fall back to a party situation where someone is there to heal you.
#3 Let's talk about hate control - BST can tranfer a bunch of his hate toward the pet (not vise versa) so the pet can get hate even if it doesn't do anything while it's masters hate level will be nearly 0.
#3.1 SMN and DRG are not that blessed cause their pet's have to deal damage to generate hate for themself
#3.2 PUP can switch hate between master and automaton but it's a double edged sword
#3.3 Crowd control - Every pet job has it's own abilities but let's check the popular options
- Shiva / Sheep ~ Sleepga
- Automaton / a bunch of pets (including THF-pets) got abilities that will weaken the mob
- every pet (Lv.80-85+) will deal enough damage to be as good as a second player
- Pull strategies - too many mobs? Let your pet die!
-- a SMN can recast another avatar in a few seconds
-- a PUP can resummon it's automation (in a weakened state) within 60 seconds or (fully functional) every 20 minutes
-- a BST has to wait for max. 5:00 minutes to call another pet
-- a DRG has to wait for max. 20:00 minutes to call it's wyvern again
--- Healing your pet is across the board nearly the same with some exceptions
--- SMN can't cure it's pet as good as it would be needed so it's better to recast
--- DRG has to sacrifice it's own HP
--- PUP depending on you automations equipment can heal it's self like a WHM, regenerate HP (maneuver), repair every 3:00 minutes for 10-30% + regen or by swaping the masters and automations HP
--- BST can feed it's pet every 90 sec and heal it for (assuming your using the best food) 1.600+ HP + regen effect or let it stay so it will get a natural regen

I know there are still some points left but since some people just want to shitwar they should bring facts and not opinions.

So my opionion is that SE should take away TH for every pet.

lol, you're very funny! Bravo!

Or at least I hope you are,otherwise: Oh dear!

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

It's interesting how a legitimate statement on how broken BST and it's pets (wow - pets have jobs, I'll tell my hampster to earn more money ;p ) in compared with other jobs are.

As I mentioned before I do play PUP, DRG, BST, THF, DNC ans WAR and I do understand the concept of every job named before. And that's the point in case of TH and tanking BST is the best job. Even DNC/THF or what ever combo you want to use will loose caues you'r out of options.

#1 In case you want to tank, you won't deal damage so the fight will last forever
#2 If you want to deal damage, you can't tank or you have to fall back to a party situation where someone is there to heal you.
#3 Let's talk about hate control - BST can tranfer a bunch of his hate toward the pet (not vise versa) so the pet can get hate even if it doesn't do anything while it's masters hate level will be nearly 0.
#3.1 SMN and DRG are not that blessed cause their pet's have to deal damage to generate hate for themself
#3.2 PUP can switch hate between master and automaton but it's a double edged sword
#3.3 Crowd control - Every pet job has it's own abilities but let's check the popular options
- Shiva / Sheep ~ Sleepga
- Automaton / a bunch of pets (including THF-pets) got abilities that will weaken the mob
- every pet (Lv.80-85+) will deal enough damage to be as good as a second player
- Pull strategies - too many mobs? Let your pet die!
-- a SMN can recast another avatar in a few seconds
-- a PUP can resummon it's automation (in a weakened state) within 60 seconds or (fully functional) every 20 minutes
-- a BST has to wait for max. 5:00 minutes to call another pet
-- a DRG has to wait for max. 20:00 minutes to call it's wyvern again
--- Healing your pet is across the board nearly the same with some exceptions
--- SMN can't cure it's pet as good as it would be needed so it's better to recast
--- DRG has to sacrifice it's own HP
--- PUP depending on you automations equipment can heal it's self like a WHM, regenerate HP (maneuver), repair every 3:00 minutes for 10-30% + regen or by swaping the masters and automations HP
--- BST can feed it's pet every 90 sec and heal it for (assuming your using the best food) 1.600+ HP + regen effect or let it stay so it will get a natural regen

I know there are still some points left but since some people just want to shitwar they should bring facts and not opinions.

So my opionion is that SE should take away TH for every pet.

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I'm not seeing you illustrating many/if any imbalances favoring BST there. TH1 on a pet doesn't hurt anyone else, and very few people like/want to have a BST around, even compared to PUP (This is commonly based on some misconceptions and old stigma towards BST, but it's relevant). There's no need to remove TH, it will just make BST less wanted than it already is outside of soloing.

PUP's hate switch is far supeiror to BST's hate transfer. It can have the same effects as snarl (build up hate then give it to pet), or it can also be used to save your pet if you want to keep it alive.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

--- PUP depending on you automations equipment can heal it's self like a WHM, regenerate HP (maneuver), repair every 3:00 minutes for 10-30% + regen or by swaping the masters and automations HP

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Automaton Oil +3 gives 40%+40*40 I believe. Not sure if Guignol Earring makes that 48%+48*40, but if it does, it's icing on the cake.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

PUP's hate switch is far superior to snarl. It can have the same effects as snarl (build up hate then give it to pet), or it can also be used to save your pet if you want to keep it alive.

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It can also be used to get rid of unwanted agro/link, provided the mob agrod the master. Its hatelessness makes it useless for dyna JA proc though.

The unbalance is that if my pet gains hate i cant make the mob go to me like PUP. I can only watch it die or spend money to keep it alive. if i had the hate swap pup has i could save a fortune on pet food and jugs alone....

This person is on a hate BST bandwagon necause i didnt see anything in that text wall that was unfair or unbalanced wich makes me think the poster doesnt even know what hes talking about..