Final Heaven builds

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

It doesn't matter, it's an average...

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That's why I asked if it was just a matter of making the math simpler. Which it appears to be. Carry on, then. I was more hopeful that they changed the ODD on the 95 weapons, really =/.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

Honestly I changed my mind about final heaven builds. I think there are two points of view:

- you can focus on multi hits since both hits can double or triple attack. However what people tend to forget is that the additional hits no longer have capped accuracy. So in a multi attack build (atheling, brutal, epona and even calmecac's leggings), you need to fucus hard on accuracy, or DA/TA are useless. Keeping in mind that the main hit is 3.0 ftp (3.1 with gorget) and additional hits count for 1.0, i.e. about 60-75% of FH damage comes from the first hit, I'm not ure this is the right way to do it.

-The second point of view which I think is better it to build purely on VIT/STR/ATT and ignore accuracy since the main hit is accuracy capped. Doing that I can pump about 170 VIT and 146 STR, while sacrifying 35 acc ( i.e 30 less acc than TP set). While my multi hit build which is ballanced , accuracy wise, with my TP set, has 136 STR 135 VIT +22 attack.

The set Im looking forward to is:

tantra thatlum
genbu/tsjukurppas necklace/ vit+2 earringsx2
tantra/ample gloves/VIT+6/tavnazia boss earring (VIT+5 H2H+5)
melee cape/warwlof/byakko's haidat eaugment: +6 VIT/ryuga.

While the multi hit set up is: replace VIT earring, ring, back by epona/brutal/atheling, and use tantra+2 gloves and anguinus belt for acc (+27)

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So I decided to test my "Old Final Settup" vs. "STR/VIT/ATK Settup"
(Old Settup)
Spharai(95)
Tantra Tathlum
Genbu's Kabuto
Justiciar's Torque
Brutal Earring
Kemas Earring
Tantra Cyclas +2
Bandomusha Kote
Spiral Ring
Epona's Ring
Atheling Mantle
Anguinus Belt
Usukane Hizayaroi (Will eventually go with Hachiryu Haidate, unless something better comes out)
Ryuga Sune-Ate

Settup End Result:
Attack: 742
STR: 126
VIT: 137

"New Settup"
Spharai(95)
Tantra Tathlum
Genbu's Kabuto
Justiciar's Torque
Soil Pearl
Kemas Earring
Tantra Cyclas +2
Bandomusha Kote
Spiral Ring
Terrasoul Ring
Cerberus Mantle +1
Warwolf Belt
Usukane Hizayaroi (Will eventually go with Hachiryu Haidate, unless something better comes out)
Ryuga Sune-Ate

Settup End Result:
ATK: 723
STR: 135
VIT: 152

The results I came up with doing the math myself was that the "Old Settup" has the possibility of doing higher damage from time to time resulting from the dbl/trpl atk procs; where the "New Settup" results in a more even and consitant damage output. Both settups are very close to each other on an Average, but looking at the numbers after having recorded them adding more str/vit/atk will even you out. However, if you like seeing that occ. high damage from your FH then atk/dbl/trpl. atk settup would be the one for you. Al were performed without food, and boosted with Temple Gloves. All were preformed on same mobs.

Again, please comment ^^ they're welcome, been playing MNK a long time, but always open to learn something I maybe dont know or understand.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

maybe "kick" type weaponskill are the same number of hits as advertise n the description, but things like combo, raging fists, voctory smite, have n+1 hits. combo advertised as 3 hits, is 4 hits, Victory smite, advertised as 4-hit, is 5 hit. etc.

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Nope You are wrong. Combo is 3 hit, Vsmite is 4hit raging is 5 hit etc. Only one hit h2h WS are 2hits in reality. Multihits have sub hand counted in description.

Atoreis go back to BG do bad maths and act like you know shit. It's easy to count the number of hits, you just have to count your TPs. All ws have n+1 hits if n is listed and the first 2 hits get a full tp return. Well except asuran fist but yeah...

Victory smite, as such, is FIVE hits yo.

@atoreis wrong. Its possible to get 10+ TP from final heaven.... therefore it is 2+hit. VS is 5 hit, combos is 4, asuran fist is 8 because 8 is the cap.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Atoreis go back to BG do bad maths and act like you know shit. It's easy to count the number of hits, you just have to count your TPs. All ws have n+1 hits if n is listed and the first 2 hits get a full tp return. Well except asuran fist but yeah...

Victory smite, as such, is FIVE hits yo.

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Except when I am not sure about something I do test before writing bs. So I did in this case.

Round of hits from 0TP put me at 9TP
Combo gave 10TP
Raging 12TP
Vsmite 11TP
I think you can make simple math to make a conclusion from those numbers? Do it then and check by yourself if you don't believe it.

Being mad on BG because you probably got banned or something is not really a reason to be mean ^^
Can't wait to make sig of your next post after you check it be yourself :D

To clear this up - One hit H2H WSs are actually 2hit because of sub hand hit ( similar to one hit WS when dual wielding). Multihit WSs have sub hand already counted in description.

Conclusions: Want a real info? Go to BG :)

Ps. Thx Mischief for haste while testing :)

In one word : you are an idiot. You just proved that you don't know how TP return work.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

In one word : you are an idiot. You just proved that you don't know how TP return work.

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One word?

Also, on topic, his test is easily recreateable if you are so inclined. Make sure you are naked and sub something that isn't WAR. Also, if inside abyssea, do not use multi-hit atma's. Perform a single attack round in which 2 fist hits connect from 0 TP and record what is received. Next, perform the weapon skills in question and record TP result. Take note that the first 2 strikes of a H2H weapon skill will yield full TP return (the first number you recorded). Assuming you do not miss, all one hit H2H weapon skills will yield full TP return as if you performed an attack round normally. H2H (note the weapon type as this doesn't apply to other weapons) weapon skills with multiple strikes, assuming no miss, will yield full TP return (first number recorded) + number of hits the weapon skill lists in its description - 2. Using the test information that was provided earlier, you can see Victory Smite yielded 11 TP, 9 (attack round, 2 hits) + 4 (hits listed in description) - 2 (2 hits already performed). Victory Smite is a 4 hit weapon skill that may increase beyond the 4 hits described only if you double, triple, or quadruple attack during the weapon skill; the "off-hand" fist is counted in multi hit H2H weapon skill descriptions.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I have Relic 95 still ~85% of level 95 empy so it is comfortably inferior to the 90 one. Without going into specific stats setups on mobs and gearchoice, I assume 150 str/vit for both weapons before the +17 on vere is accoundted for though. Otherwise standard gear. Here is a summary




I'm using 12% triple proc rate on first hand only, 20% odd proc rate on both hands for vere, and 20% innate crit boost on all hits for VS.

Seems that relic's strong point is indeed melee damage per hit though overtime the lower delay on vere wins. Vere owns as far as WS damage overtime goes too, it basically wins everywhere and I don't really see situation where spharai is better. If someone knows if crit% applies to all hits or not please post. However even if VS had zero innate crit rate the empy would still be better. Also even if the triple proced on both hands vere would win (yes..). Although I didn't check carefully I think impetus greatly advantages vere so I'm hoping that the next WS is going to favor the relic (as such it should not be crit based ..).

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Small update to this : I updated the ODD rate at 15% average since It wasn't changed as I tested the level 95 one. I also accounted for ODD "up" and "down" since my previous one assumed ODD to be up 100% of the time. Also accounted for a possible 4-hit vere.

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"global dps relic95/empy95"
[433.7435899, 463.9398252, 0.9349134658]
"melee dmg p/s"
[285.6451572, 293.1760835]
"WSdmg p/s"
[148.0984334, 170.7637408]
"round per WS avg"
[6.561679790, 6.729475101]
"avg Ws dmg"
[2197.562877, 2371.954937]

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Relic is still far from vere. Note that level 90 vere is still 2% better than level 95 relic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

In one word : you are an idiot. You just proved that you don't know how TP return work.

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Now it's actually hilarious from your part ^^ You really that mad on BG that you will disclaim pure facts and be blind for them?

I hope BigPapa described this for you simple enough that you can finally get it. In case you still haven't:

Combo 10 TP return - 9TP(2hits) +1=10 total 3 hits
Vsmite 11 TP return - 9TP(2hits) +2=11 total 4 hits
Raging 12 TP return - 9TP(2hits) +3=12 total 5 hits