DEV[1024] Job Adjustments: scholar

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, and I wanted to put it somewhere, but I feel SCH should get unique curing tools, not necessarily access to Cure V. For instance, a Helix-type cure--that is a cure that has an initial cure, then has a HoT ticking afterwards.

Oh god nini you fixed sch

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Originally Posted by Ninian

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, and I wanted to put it somewhere, but I feel SCH should get unique curing tools, not necessarily access to Cure V. For instance, a Helix-type cure--that is a cure that has an initial cure, then has a HoT ticking afterwards.

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Yeah i'm surprised no one has suggested this before.

Wow SCH's are kewl ppl! you guys just keep to topic and are just so nice and sweet and cool! I love you guys :D Any ways, I was honestly thinking about lvling SCH and such, I had it lvl 64 on my first character b4 he got stolen and deleted, pre-lvl sync era, and I enjoyed it w/ what little I had to do with it and now I want another mage job aside from SMN and BLU(DD mage yes it is...) and I hate BLM and WHM with passions.... but RDM was once my love child and I loved it dearly indeed, but I got to endgame at 75 cap(where things were with my first character) and it was shoved down my throat like this "Meripo! RDM RDM RDM CURE CURE CURE REFRESH HASTE NOW!" Me:"/sigh... falling asleep here gu...zzZZzz.." or in my HNMLS "Come RDM" Me:"Um we have 6 RDM's already 3 in alliance 3 outside" "COME RDM NOW OR NO DROPS FOR YOU!" Me:" I can give hateless nukes on SMN ; ; or spam Curing Waltz from lesser mobs on DNC or Acetnic Burst(sp?) the mob every few secs~!" "NOW RDM NOW!" Me:"ok.. /sigh, better get my Bahamut staff soon*grumbles*" Anyways, RDM is completely out of the question, I'm hoping SCH is honestly getting something unique to their play style I want to lvl this job(the right way b/c I hate skilling up anything outside of melee if I burn) and I want something to come to other then (really nice though!) unique 2hr spells, that Helix type curing sounds really nice and so SCH-esq. something or even Reflect(ga) would be nice, anything, Cure V is a nice thought when thinking inside abyssea, but it isn't completely needed for SCH at least imo(Though RDM should get it "back" just b/c SE took it away from them in the beginning and Flash, why RDM is stuck with natural Divine skill and no magic to skill up now, RDM just seems mundane enough to have Cure V keeping up with the play of RDM I suppose :/)

@wolfshadow OMG you're signature made me giggle hehehe!

It would really just be a glorified Regen spell, and while I certainly wouldn't object to it, I don't really see the need for it either.

While I'm here, I'm going to go ahead and voice my general distaste for the SCHs who believe that the lack of Cure V is holding our job back/making it worthless. Allow me to explain why:

Speaking from my own experiences, the best usage of a Light Arts SCH back at 75 was DD party healing duty; Stoneskinga, Phalanxga, Enspellga, Fire/Thunderstormga along with Cure IV and Regen made SCH the best option, as you could mitigate large amounts of AoE damage sustained while spot-curing when one of them managed to grab hate, as well as adding some damage potential via Enspells; the tools we've gained since, such as Haste, Refresh, Alquodium, Perpetuance, and more Strategems would make it even better.

No other healing/support job was as well-suited to this role as SCH; WHM is considerably less able in this role; Curagas are disgusting hate magnets when used for this purpose.. Cure V is low enmity sure, but it has a recast and MP cost that quickly adds up when trying to heal 4-5 DDs after every AoE.. the dearth of Strategem charges means that keeping Stoneskin up fulltime is pretty much impossible, along with not having access to Phalanx, Storm(surge)s, Enspells.. RDM is even less attractive.

WHM has Cure V/VI with their fixed low enmity values for a very specific reason; if you're fighting something where you need that sort of sustained Cure horsepower, that's WHM territory. Plain and simple. WHM has one purpose in the game, and that's making people not die. If they were to outsource it to other jobs.. sure, WHM would still be a great healer, and would have some specific tricks to make it desireable, but the fact is that it would quickly be relegated to DRK/DRG/PUP/etc status; general purpose jobs with niche abilities for niche situations. It would steal much of WHM's thunder, and given that those DD jobs are still quite capable on their own terms, WHM is nigh useless outside of tossing cures at meatshields. Thus, no other job is going to be allowed to step on its toes. I mean, if RDM and SCH were granted Cure V, they would instantly ascend to WHM-level tank-healing power, and still retain all of their other considerable abilities; WHM would instantly be relegated to the backseat they rode in for most of the game's life, and we'd be right back to Colibri; and to that, I say no fucking thanks.

Just to be clear, the only reason any of you want Cure V is because of Abyssea, and seriously? That shit is over and done; it may still have most of the relevant gear at this point, but as time progresses, it's going to be just one more endgame event like Dynamis, Salvage, etc. Asking for major adjustments to game balance based on wanting to homogenize all 20 jobs into the 4-5 that are most efficient for one event is retarded, end of story.

Getting back to my initial point, in terms of game balance, SCH is it's own unique job. As I outlined above, there are situations where it can out-support WHM by using it's particular suite of abilities to support a party, just as it can out-damage a BLM by using it's own unique abilities (to support a floored-enmity set, as just one example). The problem isn't the job, it's just that most SCHs think that Addendum: White means they're a WHM, and Addendum: Black means they're a BLM, so they try to play SCH as that job and are, unsurprisingly, less than pleased with the results (which are exactly what they should get).

In closing, if you're one of those people that think we should get Cure V, Comet, Meteor, etc. with Addenda.. you are playing the wrong job. SCH is not a WHM, and it is not a BLM; it is a tactician, and trying to play it as such will lead to much better results than trying to play it as the job you should've leveled instead.

Edits!

My suggestion to the Devs would be to further distinguish between WHM and SCH by improving SCH's ability to mitigate damage (as opposed to WHM's ability to cure damage):

-A Scherzo-type spell would be fitting, I think.

-I could also see a pair of spells to reduce physical and magical damage being very useful; 10% each, overwrite each other so you can only apply one or the other, and make it a separate term outside PDT/MDT from gear/Shell. That way, someone wearing no gear would get 10% damage reduction, and someone wearing -50% in gear would get 5% reduction; would keep it from being too overpowered, while still providing some benefit to players who take the time to acquire/equip proper gear.

-A spell that functions in a similar fashion to a cross between Migawari and that tonberry collar (reduces grudge damage based on current tp, which is consumed); one minute duration, long recast time, single-target, party cast; mitigates one severely damaging attack at the cost of current TP; activation could depend on current tier (0 tp=115%+ of current HP, 100tp = 100%+ of current HP, 200tp = 85% of current HP, 300tp = 70% of current HP; could also scale, idc); could also make damage mitigated vary by TP, or just have it function like Migawari where it absorbs the attack completely. Given that there are two abilities (EA, Scherzo) that reduce severe damage, and just one that nullifies it, I'd lean towards the latter.

-A pair of spells that heighten/lessen enmity lost through damage taken; accession the former onto your DDs, single-cast the latter onto the tank. Make them not suck like the Animus spells.

-How about some (volatile) Enmity Helices?


-From below:

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Give us a spell that converts big incoming damage into DoT (strengh depending on total dmg it would have dealt?) instead, that can then be erased from the target through erase or any other new spell. Sounds overpowered? Just scale it correctly.

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I like this a lot, although being able to subsequently remove it would be too much I think. Just being able to convert a block of 2k damage into 10 ticks of 200HP would be really awesome.

No matter how you turn it. there has been no new cure for SCH (lvl 55) or RDM (lvl 48) (or PLD lvl 55) for 40 level! And Cure 4 is SJable by any other Job. I don't even care about Cure V, but there has to be at least some tool, to improve the currently lacking ability to keep people alive accordingly. Take a look at how SCH main healed back in the days of a lvsl75 Vana'diel:

Back in the days SCH was a good healer because it was able to prevent DMG like almost no other job, which lessened the need of cure spammage. Stoneskin never uncapped after the level cap has been upped, neither was a second tier released.

I'd like to see tools to prevent dmg instead of curing all of it. That would fit much better to SCH. Make it possible for us to use rapture on it to enhance it so it absorbs 525 HP (+50% from rapture, +60% with emp+2 resulting in 560 HP absorbed)

Give us a spell that converts big incoming damage into DoT (strengh depending on total dmg it would have dealt?) instead, that can then be erased from the target through erase or any other new spell. Sounds overpowered? Just scale it correctly.

There could be many different approaches to give SCH more tools to keep people alive without stepping on WHMs toes.
Anything really but not just nothing at all. That is not acceptable!

Pretty sure most sch's couldn't care less if they got cure v or if they got something else, the idea is basically this: something.

Cure v is talked about, I'm sure, because it seems like the most obvious and simple solution to bring sch back to level ground on cure duty. It does seem kind of silly to bend over backwards to -not- continue a spell line that has progressed four tiers in the past.

When anything that matters drops stoneskin in one hit, and phalanx is only -29 dmg the only thing that feels useful on my tank is aquaveil. But it seems that we all wouldn't mind some new and improved damage mitigation tools, and I really hope the devs are paying attention because some genuinely good ideas have been brought up here.

Well, SE just gave Red Mage OAT in a spell, Occ. Absorb Damage Taken seems like a logical second step. And obviously Red Mage wont get it, since Regain was a logical next step from Refresh.

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Originally Posted by zell_

please do allow embrave and merton/whatever its called now to be accessed with the ability enlightenment!

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I really like this idea, and I think it scales well with the job. Considering you couldn't do this it until you could merit anyways. Even then with max merits you'd only be able to use it every 5 mins. Also because of the mp requirements I doubt you'd see this abused too much outside of abysea. Scholars may be awesome with mp manipulation but 30% is a lot.

EDIT: Though in all fairness both of those spells are made with an oh crap moment in mind. I think if you made this accessible outside of a 2hr a heavier mp cost should be assessed say 50-60% of max mp.