The importance of job points

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02-03-2015, 07:34 AM
PlumbGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olor

No, sorry, I don't think spending my whole evening's gaming time to gain one or two points solo is "a reasonable pace." I recall someone doing the math awhile ago and it worked out to OUTRAGEOUS amounts of time to cap CPs, especially if a person likes to play more than one job or is on a job that doesn't get invited to CP parties/other content that drops them.

I think that this is the crux of the argument. Some folks think that the amount of time is reasonable. Other folks don't. This is a valid thing to disagree about, especially given the fact that people have different amounts of playtime, and given how the developers have gone from saying "oh no these are no biggie, don't grind for them" to "you'll need these to equip gear and get spells for your job!"

It's too bad that we can't just have a rational discussion about content like this without folks suggesting that those of us who would like to spend more time having fun and less time mindlessly grinding are asking for hand-outs.

I have given the realistic math twice now in the past few pages. It is not unrealistic. Again, during CP campaigns, even getting 5jps an hour, which is super realistic and solo-able (this is ignoring most parties, at least the ones I've seen hitting 15+ an hour), you would have to only spend 22 hours to cap out completely 2 categories, and give you all current gifts + 15 more extra JPs. If you think this is unreasonable, even given the time since JPs have been out, you are seriously mistaken. Even WoW, touted for being the most casual game on the planet has significantly more time consuming things than this. I know people who never CP partied and are almost never online and play less than some of the time frames you guys have given and have more JPs.

It's blatantly obvious you haven't been reading the thread, so before you construe thoughts that people are just suggesting people are lazy, go back, read a little bit, and you will see how many people imply to being lazy and wanting handouts.
02-03-2015, 07:53 AM
Camiie

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Facts on this topic right now.

JPs are easy to obtain.

Subjective. Not a fact.

Quote:

Some players want to be able to AFK in town and get them.

Nothing of the sort has been requested anywhere in game or on the internet ever.

Quote:

Some players not playing the game currently are hoping for change in their endeavors of still not playing the game.

Irrelevant.

Quote:

You guys complained to much when you should of been watching Superbowl.

Grammatically incorrect.

Quote:

FrankReynolds still trying to validate his stance by telling everyone else they are liars or saying he/she said this and blah blah blah. Needs less straw manning and personal attacks and more valid reasons to bring about change to JPs except being lazy.

Hypocrisy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazusu

Cammiie is part of that incredibly vocal minority campaigning continually and tirelessly for easy this, easy that, accessible this, accessible that. Absolutely nothing will come of trying to discuss a topic with him/her. He/she's always right.

Other than you purposefully misspelling my name, I really have no problem with how you just characterized me.
02-03-2015, 08:01 AM
PlumbGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camiie

Subjective. Not a fact.

Nothing of the sort has been requested anywhere in game or on the internet ever.

Irrelevant.

Grammatically incorrect.

Hypocrisy.

Other than you purposefully misspelling my name, I really have no problem with how you just characterized me.

I'm starting to think you are FrankReynolds.
02-03-2015, 08:06 AM
Camiie

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlumbGame

I'm starting to think you are FrankReynolds.

Well at least you're starting to think.
02-03-2015, 08:08 AM
PlumbGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camiie

Well at least you're starting to think.

Because I don't agree with you wanting hand-outs? This is part of the issue in this thread. You guys are mad that people like me keep pointing out the simplicity of the JP system. GG on your part though I guess? You seriously think people were going to just all come into this thread agreeing that the JP system is unfair or hard or time-consuming? You sure act like it.
02-03-2015, 08:47 AM
Crevox

Quote:

No, sorry, I don't think spending my whole evening's gaming time to gain one or two points solo is "a reasonable pace."

But why solo? Why not group? Then you can get much more, per hour, instead of two for an entire night. It's like trying to solo at level 20 or something way back in the day, it's monumentally slower than grouping.

Either way, I'm neutral on this. I do wish people would stop the childish arguing, insults, and namecalling though and have an intelligent discussion. People are allowed to have different opinions.
02-03-2015, 09:29 AM
Camiie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crevox

But why solo? Why not group? Then you can get much more, per hour, instead of two for an entire night. It's like trying to solo at level 20 or something way back in the day, it's monumentally slower than grouping.

With the way server pops are these days, I can see why many feel like they have to solo their JPs more often than not.
02-03-2015, 09:48 AM
Olor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camiie

With the way server pops are these days, I can see why many feel like they have to solo their JPs more often than not.

I play BST, I solo my points because the few JP party shouts I see are asking for BRD or WHM or a DD that actually does damage.

Why don't you form your own parties?

Because I have no idea where the good camps are and I'd rather not spend my limited game time shouting in town for people that are reasonable enough to party with a BST regardless of whether said BST is making the party or you know, even knows where to go.

PS: Also being a BST means I don't have an optimal CP gain cape (actually most people probably don't) so... yeah LOL at 5JP an hour EVER solo.

***

All of this is mostly irrelevant though because regardless of the speed, I find farming JP to be eye-numbingly boring. It makes my ears bleed. I'd rather watch someone breed pokemon. That's how boring it is. If it was fun or offered some other reward other than feeling like I am wasting my life, the speed might be fine.

What I'd *like* to see more than anything is increased JP gain from doing content. Heck, even content that has a main reward of getting JP would be pretty okay - especially if it could also be used to make gil. As long as that content is less soul destroyingly boring than "grind mobs."

Of course in order for that to help we'd need to see jobs a bit more balanced, but... excuse me if I don't have a lot of hope of BST being useful or desireable ever for any content.
02-03-2015, 10:21 AM
Crevox

Quote:

Because I have no idea where the good camps are

You can ask in game or on any of the forums. There are multiple capable camps people go to, such as Woh Gates Map #2 from Marjami obelisk in the southwest room, killing bats.

You can scout it out beforehand too, and even solo them to try them out.

Quote:

for people that are reasonable enough to party with a BST

No one has questioned my job as a SMN, not once, making my own party. I doubt others would for BST either, people are more interested in joining the party.

Quote:

Also being a BST means I don't have an optimal CP gain cape

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/27603/aptitude-mantle

Not too big of a difference from an Incursion cape if you can't get an Incursion party, and you can spend some more for the +1 version if you want some more CP. The non-HQ cape is pretty cheap, and most people who do Incursion don't even have a cape >40% anyways, it's still kinda uncommon/rare. The 25% cape works just fine.

Quote:

excuse me if I don't have a lot of hope of BST being useful or desireable ever for any content.

BST works perfectly fine for CP parties and a lot of other things. People just don't bring it because it's not omgsuperthebest. If you're a good BST, make your own parties and show it.

Quote:

With the way server pops are these days, I can see why many feel like they have to solo their JPs more often than not.

Both Olor and I are on Asura, so I know there are more than enough people wanting to join a CP party. I get an absolute overflow of people trying to join when I shout, and it forms into a line.
02-03-2015, 10:23 AM
Stompa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olor

No, sorry, I don't think spending my whole evening's gaming time to gain one or two points solo is "a reasonable pace." I recall someone doing the math awhile ago and it worked out to OUTRAGEOUS amounts of time to cap CPs, especially if a person likes to play more than one job or is on a job that doesn't get invited to CP parties/other content that drops them.

I think that this is the crux of the argument. Some folks think that the amount of time is reasonable. Other folks don't. This is a valid thing to disagree about, especially given the fact that people have different amounts of playtime, and given how the developers have gone from saying "oh no these are no biggie, don't grind for them" to "you'll need these to equip gear and get spells for your job!"

It's too bad that we can't just have a rational discussion about content like this without folks suggesting that those of us who would like to spend more time having fun and less time mindlessly grinding are asking for hand-outs.

I think we used to spend our "whole evening's gaming time" just levelling jobs slowly to 75, and obtaining merits slowly. That is the core game FFXI, it is a long-term game, with "deferred gratification" and a slow long-term progression system.

They did eventually buckle to pressure and allow people to get xp and merits super-quickly, around 2010, but for the first six years or so the core FFXI game was about slow progress, ie. spending your evening game time notching up a few more points on your character's development.

So what I'm saying is that really this has always been the nature of FFXI, it is about spending your whole evening and making small progress as part of a long-term character building system. The progress overall is many times faster today than it ever was, with ilvl and trusts and RoE FoV Gov etc. but ultimately FFXI is a long-term RPG system.

As for the "I can't possibly get job points capped on all my jobs" type of thing, I don't think it was ever intended to be <That way.> I think JobPoints are similar to the old 75 days when most people had one or two main jobs at 75, and were slowly trying to max merits on those couple of main jobs. So again I think Jobpoints are true to the original FFXI game, as opposed to the sort of weird aby mutant creature it became later.

Job Points do represent a sort of minor nod to the past, with a slightly slower pace than what was allowed in Aby xp burns etc. Jobpoints are more true to the original FFXI game than any other additions of the past five years. In that Jobpoints do take time, and do involve chipping away at the progress a little bit every night, with a long term view to improving your character gradually - which is what FFXI started out as in the beginning, and what so many people were doing when FFXI was at its most popular.

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