So uh, what skills do they get in abyssea by opening chests helps them at 90?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream_Soda
You know, let's just not have levels anymore. It seems like too much work.
Let's just forget that whole Maat thing, while we're at it.
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03-11-2011, 12:38 AMBahamut_Norm
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03-11-2011, 12:48 AMrogNone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut_Norm
Which isn't much worse than what you'd get from killing some pink birds. -
03-11-2011, 12:49 AMCream_SodaWhen did I ever claim that's where you got skills? You guys are the ones claiming that skill comes from leveling the traditional way.Quote:
So uh, what skills do they get in abyssea by opening chests helps them at 90?
I'm saying neither gives you skill at a job.
Research your damn job and once you do the research practice the proper application of what you researched. That's where the skill comes from.
If you can do what I just said above, it matters not how you get to 90, so level the way you prefer.
If you like to level traditionally, do so. If you prefer to open chests, do so.
In the end, if you research your job, and are able to apply what you learned in game, you will be a good player. -
03-11-2011, 12:56 AMFiarliaThis. So many times this. I don't get why all the people screaming that Abyssea ruined exp, or the game, or people think we're trying to force our preferred way of exping on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream_Soda
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03-11-2011, 01:18 AMIlax
To be honest, i did not read all this thread, i can just imagine is just a tons of QQ, i am just surprise that people cry to get it more easy, leveling never been that easy, next step of SE would be to make your Character lv90 on creation with full skill. i mean common guy, can't ask SE to do better then what it is already. Level form 1 to 11 can be done in 1h max, then you can smn burn from 11 to 30 in another 1h... and in 3~5 hours can jump form 30 to 90... Skill up frequency been raised...
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03-11-2011, 01:23 AMChrisstreb
Really though in all honesty, if you don't research the job(s) you leveled up via key leeching in Abyssea, and learn how to play them in some way shape or form before Level 30, then you shouldn't really play the job. For some people (myself included), I see the leeching as a way to take up jobs I've wanted to take up for a while but dont want to spends weeks (sometimes even months) to get it to 75 (90 these days). Theres jobs I took up into the 50s and 60s before the increased level caps that I've wanted to do but couldn't since I really didn't have the extra time to do those jobs, and know how to play those jobs already, Abyssea Leeching is just a way to get your job up to the higher levels faster so you can enjoy it more. Sadly, these days though... see way too many people playing on jobs that really don't know what they are doing... Full Aurore DNCs are one of them that comes to mind, I see SMNs full-timing AF1, and have since the Level Sync introduction.... What Abyssea introduced was more people playing jobs poorly, but it's not the sole reason for it. Level Sync really introduced it in some aspects.
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03-11-2011, 01:35 AMBahamut_Norm
I don't usually reply more than once to anyone with Justin Bieber in their signature, but I'll make an exception this one time.
Oh, did square introduce that patch that makes all jobs melees that don't time shadows, learn spells, gear swap, use any job abilities, self-skill-chains and stand idly about 90 percent of the time only to use a single command on a non threatening NPC target to auto-win simple fights?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream_Soda
I suppose in that case, you're right.
Well, I guess a pickup Shinryu fight is just perfect for practice then! Who cares if you have no actual melee skill. There's an an atma for that, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream_Soda
Now that's an interesting and somewhat true statement. There are some people who react with rather strong hyperbole about what the effects of Abyssea actually are. To some extent, their complaints are invalid. Though, I don't think I've actually ever heard anyone say something so far as it's being "forced upon them."Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiarlia
Furthermore, this thread isn't concerning the greater effects of Abyssea, just the great deal of imbalance caused at levels that are far below what one might expect to be appropriate. -
03-11-2011, 01:38 AMCream_SodaYou can get plenty of practice in while you're skilling up from being so far behind. By the time you get your skills capped you should be versed in your job, provided you actually did research and was applying it during your skill up time.Quote:
Well, I guess a pickup Shinryu fight is just perfect for practice then! Who cares if you have no actual melee skill. There's an an atma for that, right?
Fighting robber crabs and colibri isn't going to get you ready for Shinryu, either. -
03-11-2011, 02:00 AMIlaxI did all my job to 75 pre-abyssea release, and to be honest there not much difference, when you level job like BLM (let say the hardest way) then you have to buy spell/gear/song and so on, that you might never use again at lv75 (or let now say 90) I could have say something different back in the time where CoP was still caped, but is not anymore the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisstreb
To say someone will play better just because he did from lv1 to 90 the hard way is just wrong, i have just too many job to keep track of all new JA/Magic/strategy etc, no matter how good i was with all job 75, it worth nothing anymore for me since every job have a different play style since abyssea got introduced. So what i mean is i had to relearn everything for all job, so i am not more expert then any new player rushing his job to 90. (i still have more general experience, but what that worth since everyone interest is only abyssea now... And who say what i learned will really apply for lv99 release...)
Just a quick example, Look at warrior, they fell cleave 40 mob at the same time (no way you going to learn how to do this pre-90). Do they really need to know how to SC with other mele job? Or learn how to Trick attack tank, so why even bother anymore with these detail. For WHM you don't really need cure bomb everyone for 2,000 hours to learn the job... For RDM job, well is kinda messed up for them, they just have too many play style. Anyway i am not going to talk about all job, but in general what i learned pre-abyssea and what it is now is 2 different world. -
03-11-2011, 02:54 AMFiarliaHis comment runs under the assumption that the people who would read up on their jobs and be able to apply said knowledge within the game would be the ones likely to skillup their weapons, get the spells, skill their magic, understand how to skillchain and magic bust and so on. He does not in any way say you learn what you need to by leeching. He merely contests that you don't need to do a normal party in order to learn (and apply) those skills or tactics either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut_Norm
I for one, agree with this. If you've been playing the game for a while you should be well aware that there were plenty of level 75's that were horrible. Even before the introduction of Level Sync. Even before the introduction of Campaign. And also before ToAU was introduced.
One of his main points is that gimps have always existed and will always exist. The way they level has zero impact on this. An idiot that whacks away at Robber Crabs or Colibri to 75 (90) will still be an idiot. An idiot that keys chests to 90 will still be an idiot. Many other people are trying to argue that Abyssea has produced more idiots, which they're mostly attributing to key leeching. The people who are smart will pretty much always be smart at their job. None of the jobs in the game are hard, and any reasonable person will be able to properly gear their job and play it regardless of how they got it to level 90. The smart people I'm talking about are likely to understand the value of having their spells, skilling their weapons and understanding how to properly time shadows and/or other spells.
Making people level the "original way" will serve as nothing more than a timesink and/or cockblock (if people abhor the original way of leveling) if the player in question is good. Making the bad players level the "original way" will do nothing to improve their performance, and they'll still make it to max level one way or another. The only valid argument I'm seeing against Abyssea leeching is that these bad players will have more jobs at max level. I will concede and agree on this point. Though, I'll ask in return: what difference does that make? They'll be terrible whether they have one job at max level or all 20. They'll just have more flexibility when it comes to grouping with other terrible players. Again, so what? If it takes 18 terrible players to do what a group of smart players could do with 2-6, then hey, at least they can get some shit done for themselves. Abyssea leeching is not the problem. The problem is the players themselves. As has been mentioned before, this can be solved by playing with people you know and trust, or finding people that can trust, and get to know them.
Read the title of this thread. Now read some of the others thread titles. Now go to some other forums and read those threads. Or even just the topic titles. Hell, just read soem of the posts in this very topic. The idea of "nerfing" Abyssea leeching is fairly prevalent. There are people who want to raise the level cap to 70 to enter Abyssea, or (further) reduce the exp gain to characters in Abyssea under level 75 (70, 90, whatever arbitrary number they decide to use). These are the people trying to "force" their ideas and ways upon others, offering up whatever explanation they can can up with, however ridiculous and/or stupid it might be to make it happen and make it seem like a legitimate concern or issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamut_Norm
Meanwhile, most everyone in the other camp (the people that like or support leeching) are not arguing that it should be the only option. In fact, many people (myself included) are saying that there is an issue with exp outside Abyssea, even with the new upgrades. I'm all for revamping or enhancing exp in other areas. I understand there are people who wish to exp the old way. I have zero problem with this. If they wanna do it, by all means let them! Make it more viable, too! Hell, I might even do it once in a while for fun. Nearly everyone arguing against the people that want to stop Abyssea leeching has said the same.
I don't want to take away from others enjoyment of the game... so why are they trying to do it to me (and by extension, the others who like Abyssea leeching)? Everyone should be able to level the way they choose, putting a stop to Abyssea leeching is not conducive to this idea.
Any anger or arguing you're seeing from "this side" of the fence is only shooting down the reasons people are asking for Abyssea leeching to stop, because any reason that has been offered is complete bullshit, as well as any reason I can come up with.