Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

It's pretty obvious Square are going to wait and see what kind of fallout there is from this before they do a damn thing (if they do at all) so I would suggest everyone that has issues with this look for alternative games to play to try hold out for a while or maybe permanently. It's entirely possible these payment options are here to stay and they will give no others (for overseas players), even if it means a significant loss of profits. Square are a JP company, they don't like admiting they are in the wrong and will eat failure pie before doing so. Look at FFXIV and how many warning signs they got it was bad and ignored them all.

Ignoring it's users is the ultimate slap in the face and shows how little they respect us, they just think we are too addicted and stupid to quit or take a long break over this. If that's true and they know us all so well, then maybe we deserve these crappy payment options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcon

...without Content ID, no character, can't post. I reactivated my account on the 13th, after I got a new credit card that ClickandBuy would accept.

So I guess after September 3 no one will be complaining anymore, at least not on here. SE might take that as a sign that it's all ok now. It would fit their logic.

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Thx for correcting me, I guess I was wrong :p
I guess i'll complain in ffxiv forum past aug 31.

Think I'll be joining the people playing other games when my content IDs are deactivated as well. I've already started getting back into the Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE MMO and its more fleshed out than it was when it first started its US release.

And with SF3: 3rd Strike OE already preordered, I might just become the next Daigo Umehara with how much time I'm not on FFXI.

To the person mentioning Absolute Poker and their website not listing C&B: its probably because the site doesn't have it as a preferred payment processor. The ones they have listed probably have better deals with AP for ads and/or are easier to handle for the customer and their phone agents.

I used to work at a rival online poker company and with C&B, we just had it as a last resort to keep customers. However, those same customers would always come back and complain about how bad C&B was in the end.

Makes me wonder how S-E's support centre is going to handle the calls I used to get about C&B because I probably have tips for their phone agents :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orlind

...I've already started getting back into the Shin Megami Tensei: IMAGINE MMO and its more fleshed out than it was when it first started its US release...

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LOL thanks for reminding me of this game, I tried long ago when JP first released, and wonder if my character is still there. I might give this a try again. Before was all in japanese, and everyone was japanese, so now there is a NA version in english? hows the server? are they multi region like ffxi?

Has anyone seen the new server message that comes up when you log in? It's "reminding" us to switch over to one of the new payment systems before the end of the month... I'm almost certainly reading too much into it but it could imply that fewer people have moved to one of the new systems than they would have liked.

Took me 10 minutes to sign up and switch to C&B. My life has not gone through any significant change during this process. You're all overreacting. I understand if it's not available to your region whatsoever that you would be concerned, but everyone else needs to stop digging in mommy's purse and get themselves an account with a real bank and establish real credit.

Tbh u dont need Click'and'Scam just use Paypal I got it working all you gotta do is

1) Create paypal account
2) Get Credit Card verified (can be done withing a day or so with online banking)
3) Log into SE account and Select buy Crysta
4) Select Ultimatepay
5) Select Paypal in the tab
6) Login to paypal account and pay.
7) Recieve the Crysta
8) No surcharges or nothing u now have gametime!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

Took me 10 minutes to sign up and switch to C&B. My life has not gone through any significant change during this process. You're all overreacting. I understand if it's not available to your region whatsoever that you would be concerned, but everyone else needs to stop digging in mommy's purse and get themselves an account with a real bank and establish real credit.

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I won't use CnB because when I asked my bank whether I should (after I heard about U.S. banks freezing accounts or calling people to clear charges from CnB) they told me that since they were an other wise little known international vendor and that they were involved in types of services that could be used to perpetrate fraudulent transactions, the fraud prevention system would most likely be triggered every time CnB tried to charge my card. Plus, when I googled them(really, just looking at the first two pages of a google search isn't really an intensive inquiry) I saw more than enough to realize that I wanted nothing to do with them: poor customer service that was apparent in 2007 which still carries on, seeming random difficulties in people setting up accounts, making you fill out a template with all your information before telling you the service in unavailable in your region, requesting sensitive documents like a passport to verify identity (when I got my passport, the agent who processed my application told me that I was never to give my passport to anyone outside the government or in law enforcement, or reproduce it for that matter). At the very least CnB is amateurish and inconvenient. I know people will say, "Just call your bank if it triggers fraud alarms and get it cleared" but that defeats the purpose of an automated payment option.

You have no problems. Great! I don't care. I don't want to deal with them and I won't deal with them. They should have chosen a more reputable third party. In Canada, while Paypal is at least listed as a partner in fraud prevention on the anti-fraud government website (Phonebusters), CnB is no where to be seen. Face it, even though Paypal has had problems, they are better known by NA banks and at least make a show of working with government agencies to protect people from fraud. It's simply more reputable.

I transferred over and chose crysta. Still no crysta in my account because I'm not sure I've seen anything worth paying for next month whereas if they had kept direct billing for the rest of world or used a better third party vendor they would have got my money without doing anything.

I won't even get into how blatantly insulting it is to give one group of customers more options than another group of customers simply based on the region they live ESPECIALLY when they had the same options before.

You say people are overreacting. I say you're naive and don't care enough about your personal and financial information. I'm not going to give my information to a company I don't trust and hope they use it for the purposes they say they're using it for. That's just stupid.

Quote:

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Tbh u dont need Click'and'Scam just use Paypal I got it working all you gotta do is

1) Create paypal account
2) Get Credit Card verified (can be done withing a day or so with online banking)
3) Log into SE account and Select buy Crysta
4) Select Ultimatepay
5) Select Paypal in the tab
6) Login to paypal account and pay.
7) Recieve the Crysta
8) No surcharges or nothing u now have gametime!

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9) set each account payment method to use crysta
10) repeat steps 3-6 everytime crysta runs low
11) bemoan the muda (waste) of the crysta that will never be spent on anything
12) pray SE doesn't flex their crysta rights. Seriously, have you read the crysta agreement? It's ridiculous what they're allowing themselves to do. I'd be less reluctant to sign an agreement that says they get to kick me in the pants at any moment without warning because at least then I'd still have my money.

Quote:

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I transferred over and chose crysta. Still no crysta in my account because I'm not sure I've seen anything worth paying for next month whereas if they had kept direct billing for the rest of world or used a better third party vendor they would have got my money without doing anything.

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I think this will start to happen for a lot of the distruntled customers now, they will turn loyal long standing subscribers into fairweather friends. They will take people that have paid monthly non-stop for years into people that will only pay that month if they feel Square have done enough to warrant the fee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Runespider

I think this will start to happen for a lot of the distruntled customers now, they will turn loyal long standing subscribers into fairweather friends. They will take people that have paid monthly non-stop for years into people that will only pay that month if they feel Square have done enough to warrant the fee.

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That's my plan! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niyariko

LOL thanks for reminding me of this game, I tried long ago when JP first released, and wonder if my character is still there. I might give this a try again. Before was all in japanese, and everyone was japanese, so now there is a NA version in english? hows the server? are they multi region like ffxi?

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Nah, the NA version of IMAGINE is run by Aeria Games and its seperated by region just like any other MMO. Your character should still be there along with all your stuff (except some of it might work properly this time). Also, I couldn't walk 5 seconds without seeing a bunch of people along the roads and the towns are packed.

I sort of like IMAGINE in that the community feels more like FFXI did back in the old days with lots of new and old players hanging out together. Plus, everyone seems more friendly like FFXI used to be back in the day. Nobody jumping down your throat for asking a simple question out in the field and people helping each other. The staff even hosts events with prizes and stuff for everyone.

More importantly, they seem to give a damn about getting our money and trying not to piss everyone off because its on a free-to-pay model.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

Took me 10 minutes to sign up and switch to C&B. My life has not gone through any significant change during this process. You're all overreacting. I understand if it's not available to your region whatsoever that you would be concerned, but everyone else needs to stop digging in mommy's purse and get themselves an account with a real bank and establish real credit.

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You are forgetting that a significant # of people don't have alll the options available to them everywhere. Just because you could do it easily doesn't make it so for everyone else. Many players are barely old enough to play, much less get their own bank and cc.

Please answer the following: Would you e-mail/mail/fax or otherwise supply an unknown third party with copies of your Driver's License, Birth certificate, Passport and other sensitive information in order to prove who you are only to be told that C&B is not available in your region? How would you like having your bank place a freeze on your account because they think it's suspicious activity? What will you do after having gone through C&B they all of a sudden have billing problems and you can't play?

This thread is not just about you, but about the people who don't like/refuse or can't use the current options.

September 1 is going to be an eye opener. Hopefully all who have transferred won't have problems and those who haven't will be able to re-activate easily.

By the way, did anyone see this?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...lties-(Aug.-18)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

I transferred over and chose crysta. Still no crysta in my account because I'm not sure I've seen anything worth paying for next month whereas if they had kept direct billing for the rest of world or used a better third party vendor they would have got my money without doing anything.

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There's a Mantis. B@#&$es love Mantises. C'mon. Did you see the size of that thing? It' huge, and it's a Mantis. And it's huge. And Mantis-like. Can't go wrong with Mantises. They're so Mantisy. I love Mantises. Call me a Man-tis. Once you go Man-tis, you never go back. That's actually me in the pic. I know, you're impressed. See you in September! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

Took me 10 minutes to sign up and switch to C&B. My life has not gone through any significant change during this process. You're all overreacting. I understand if it's not available to your region whatsoever that you would be concerned, but everyone else needs to stop digging in mommy's purse and get themselves an account with a real bank and establish real credit.

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You could have at least attempted to read some of the thread before you made yourself look stupid.

I have lil hope it will all be working. I transfered my accounts (again) and are not even able to get back into game now. Have to wait till monday (again) to make a long distance call to support just to be able to enter game. Been struggling 2 days to make that clickandbuy account but i have my doubts if this is going to work.....

After adding my accounts to SE account for the security token i couldnt get back into game and had to wait 2 days for EU support to reset my password to be able to play again.
Now it took me 2 days to create that clickandbuy account (verifications) and after successfully adding my accounts to the same SE account again just for the payment issue, its the same story: cant get back in game again and again its saturday wo i have to wait monday to make another long distance call to play again.
Its really not as simple as you say!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noyax

After adding my accounts to SE account for the security token i couldnt get back into game and had to wait 2 days for EU support to reset my password to be able to play again.
Now it took me 2 days to create that clickandbuy account (verifications) and after successfully adding my accounts to the same SE account again just for the payment issue, its the same story: cant get back in game again and again its saturday wo i have to wait monday to make another long distance call to play again.
Its really not as simple as you say!!!

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This was meand to be replied to Harukusan's post
And btw.... i am an adult with no mommy's support anymore, my own account sinds 35 years and one of the biggest banks in europe.

Bad thing here in US with my bank is im getting charged an additional international fee for 4 accounts each, due to the fact click & buy does not have a branch on US soil. A friend of mine did the conversion, and while he was playing was booted for 2 days because the whole thing got messed up on their end. This whole thing really stinks, I really wish they would go back to the previos way. Im really concerned many people are going to have the same issue my friend had once everyone has converted

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerbob

Has anyone seen the new server message that comes up when you log in? It's "reminding" us to switch over to one of the new payment systems before the end of the month... I'm almost certainly reading too much into it but it could imply that fewer people have moved to one of the new systems than they would have liked.

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I don't think that's what it's proof of. They're listening to us, but they don't hear us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I don't think that's what it's proof of. They're listening to us, but they don't hear us.

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I'm not even sure any higher-ups at S-E will hear us until the game loses more money over this.

Despite the formation of these official forums, I still don't think the message is getting to anyone important. Don't get me wrong, I think the Community Reps try their best to pass info and feedback between us and those in charge. However, I still believe communication between us and them is too restricted, especially in light of how other companies handle things with equal or even less resources.

With other games and companies, we have real names and faces that actually engage in chatter with their playerbase on somewhat of a regular basis and that's how I wished these forums would be. I think even regular mini progress reports (maybe on that Twitter account they have going) would go a long way in relieving any tension we have here. Sorry but the Community Reps chiming in once a fortnight is not enough.

Quote:

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Despite the formation of these official forums

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The forums were introduced with the best of intentions, the suits and higher ups at SE are too set in their ways to change in reality. The devs use the forums as an ideas pool but that's about it (especially for cheap/easy stuff to add), even that will degrade as time goes on.

I would hate to be working on this forum, it must be an incredibly annoying job being the link between their customers and the higher ups/devs when the novelty has/is wearing and they go back to their old "we know best" attitude. Whenever a rep here avoids posts or anything it's not cause they want to, it's cause they can't get confirmation on information or permission to reply to them. Not even to say they are working/thinking on changing/leaving the issues.

This thread is a golden example, there should of at least been a proper statement after all this time stating if they were going to simply ignore complaints and leave it or if they were actively going to add more options. As it is they pretty much said nothing of any value leaving us all hanging and just waiting to see how much fallout happens before bothering to spend money adding better options. They know people are angry about this, they don't care about that...just if that anger actually leads to less money per month.

I've canceled my subscription. There are just too many things I hate about this game, as well as about Final Fantasy XIV.

Quote:

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I don't think that's what it's proof of. They're listening to us, but they don't hear us.

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Regarding the /smes that comes up when you log on. I think it's proof positive that SE is not planning on making any payment changes before the end of the month. It may be that they never will, it "might" be a consideration at some point in the future, but it's not looking hopeful since SE Account Management people have said nary a word on the subject.

There has already been one billing maintenance because of C&B and another message that says that purchases made through their billing partner have been delayed, no apparent resolution of that yet either. I shudder to think what's going to happen at the end of the month, when people discover they can no longer play or have access to these forums to say so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerbob

Has anyone seen the new server message that comes up when you log in? It's "reminding" us to switch over to one of the new payment systems before the end of the month... I'm almost certainly reading too much into it but it could imply that fewer people have moved to one of the new systems than they would have liked.

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I'm sure this the first some players have even heard about this debacle. Nine days remaining till hilarity really ensues.

Crysta is the best ^^
Its fast easy!
&
Prepaid way! Get top up cards!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lordscyon

Crysta is the best ^^
Its fast easy!
&
Prepaid way! Get top up cards!

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It wasn't terrible like a lot of people are making it seem <.<. Just a minor annoyance that my husband and I couldn't share the same pool of crysta. That's understandable though because you have to have two separate SE accounts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kimara

It wasn't terrible like a lot of people are making it seem <.<. Just a minor annoyance that my husband and I couldn't share the same pool of crysta. That's understandable though because you have to have two separate SE accounts.

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You mean SE isn't making this convenient for its subscribers?

Having just lost out on a chance at getting a roundel earring because I was being stubborn and trying to use ClickandBuy, I can say that honestly, I am done with them and never want to deal with them again. SE shouldn't be doing business with these jokers at all. SE has hurt my trust in them by even suggesting that I should deal with such an untrustworthy and worthless company in the first place. I hope SE can keep what little faith I have in them regarding payment methods, and earn back the massive amounts they have lost.

Maybe it is all just a giant conspiracy by SE to make us use Crysta (1-2 hours after breaking down in despair I found it was really easy, although it also makes it really easy to stop paying if I ever get unsatisfied with SE... which doesn't seem hard after this payment debacle) without complaining about it too much.

If this was really what SE wanted, they could have just forced us all to use Crysta and be done with it, without taking a massive hit to their reputation by dealing with sleazy companies.

My ideal from here on out would be SE announcing that due to the complaints about ClickandBuy, they will stop recommending it, and only deal with customers who have already setup a ClickandBuy account, alongside an apology about making a mistake of this magnitude. But for now, I'll just have to use Crysta and hope that SE really gets that it was unacceptable to even suggest its customers do business with someone so horrible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panthera

You mean SE isn't making this convenient for its subscribers?

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I would call it an inconvenience, nothing we would quit over though. We had trouble with Clickandbuy in the past So we didn't go through them and just use'd paypal, much easier x.x!

In case you new posters haven't been following the thread, it's more about the means for us to use our CC to pay SE. JP can simply give SE thier CC info as always---everyone else has to go through another party now, and it is causing a lot of issues.

It may even be worse then previously experienced with SE's POL system, hard to say without actual statisitics. Considering regions that were previously able to pay without issues are now getting blocked by C&B's regional restrictions, some banks are rejecting C&B, others are charging fees for using C&B, C&B is charging in a different currency and for some it has increased the subscription fees...C&B has become a bit of a problem for many.

well from what i gather then, not transferring will solve those issues...(for the time being anyways) and from what i heard, don't cancel your account, because when you reactivate it, you'll be forced to use C&B then.

You'll be forced to transfer to the new system by next month anyway, iirc.

That is the whole point... letting SE know how much of a clusterf*ck they've made by keeping things the same for just the JP region's CC use while screwing everyone else.

They can maintain the existing option for one region, AND give them the new options as well. They can also do it for the other regions. The question is why aren't they? And will they fix it in time before they loose lots of revenue?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kimara

I would call it an inconvenience, nothing we would quit over though. We had trouble with Clickandbuy in the past So we didn't go through them and just use'd paypal, much easier x.x!

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Would you mind clarifying what exactly you did? First, I'm assuming we're talking about FFXI, and not some other MMO.

You can use Paypal, but not directly. As I understand it, you can purchase Chrysta from Square-Enix via Click'n Buy using a PayPal payment option. That still sounds like using Click'nBuy to me. Please just clarify what you did, not tryin' to troll ya.

Also as a general question to everyone:...

What exactly is UltimatePay getting out of this?

The discussion has focused on Click'n Buy so much, it feels like "the lesser of two evils" has gotten lost in the shuffle. Aren't there some fees somewhere to the buyer? Or are they collecting from SE for using their services?

I did look around. The local Wal-mart didn't carry the cards like UP's website said it did, but a GameStop and a convenience store did. I could buy them, but even if SE did have $1.00 denominations of Chrysta, UP only says $20.00 worth on their cards, so I end up paying for more than I need either way. This is of course strictly academic at this point.

It is hidden when the tos is five pages long of garbage and the one sentence or two thats most relivant to 90% of users is buried in there somewhere. In my opinion, an honest bussiness doesnt hide those types of things in their tos, they come right out and say it. Tos is generally for the lawyers.

I've been trying to think why they are treating Japanese players so nicely while giving everyone else the finger, is it punishment for a small % of them that abused chargeback? Is it at attempt to prune those regions back and try make these games JP only again? I don't get it, the system is there to buy "exact amount" crysta and pay SE direct since they are using it for the Japanese they just choose not to offer it to anyone else for some reason.

I really can't understand why a company the size of SE that needs money as badly as they do and that has been running the title nearly 10 years with a worldwide playerbase would treat JP players so well and everyone else so badly, it makes no sense at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panthera

What exactly is UltimatePay getting out of this?

The discussion has focused on Click'n Buy so much, it feels like "the lesser of two evils" has gotten lost in the shuffle. Aren't there some fees somewhere to the buyer? Or are they collecting from SE for using their services?

I did look around. The local Wal-mart didn't carry the cards like UP's website said it did, but a GameStop and a convenience store did. I could buy them, but even if SE did have $1.00 denominations of Chrysta, UP only says $20.00 worth on their cards, so I end up paying for more than I need either way. This is of course strictly academic at this point.

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I'm going to guess SE pays them a set fee or they make money on others things they sell on playspan

10 days to go until "D" day and still no word from SE to acknowledge concerns, much less say they are looking into other options. And I mean from SE themselves, not Mods.